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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » ARG: Find the Lost Ring
[ARTIFACTS] Second stories
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lhall
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 		[ARTIFACTS] Second stories
I've gone through the forums and added info to the wiki about the second stories for each artifact:

http://olympics.wikibruce.com/Artifacts#Known_artifact_locations

I've included sources (usually the post of research) and photos where applicable.

But! There are lots missing. We still need info/research/photos of:

* Austin, Texas (we know it's likely relevant to "Life of Sam Houston" - but what?)
* Stockholm, Sweden (likely relevant to "Brave and Bold" - but what?)
* Bruxelles, Belgium - what is the ink etching?
* Shanghai, China
* Seoul, Korea (likely relevant to English language book?)
* Copenhagen, Denmark (found in an envelope, was it the Western Maryland Railway Company?)
* Sao Paolo, Brazil (envelope, same?)
* Hong Kong (unrecovered, but envelope)
* Singapore
* NYC
* Toronto

So far there are four confirmed Western Maryland Railway Company envelopes and there are potentially a few more. But what's the connection (or in Ariadne's words, what makes it "codexy")?
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:02 am
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jasper
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 		I'm quoting from the Toronto thread here:
danteIL wrote:
See this is why I'm starting to get slowly suspicious that this may be a poorly-conceptualized 'puzzle' on the part of the PMs. We shouldn't have to get things "confirmed" by Ariadne in order to know that they are part of the 'second story.' We should just instantly *know* when we find the right connection. I read that stuff about the Galilee and never had that 'aha!' reaction.

Now this may turn out to be a different kind of puzzle -- one where we have to create our own stories about the possible connections, no right or wrong answers. People can find justification for almost any seemingly-significant connection between two random events/things/people. This sounds like a very Mythopoetic sort of task, if you ask me. Maybe Ariadne will make it one of the Mytho missions. But either we don't have enough information from all of the artifact locations yet in order to know what we're looking for, or something is screwy.

AUZ505 wrote:
"Pioneer History Stories of the Mississippi Valley". There have been speculations about the "Run Graph" changing in 1812 and that there was a earthquake, which made the Mississippi "run backwards". I guess the "new Madrid earthquake" could be found in the book.

lhall wrote:

Markus, and then Ariadne said things seem "codexy" about either the locations/purposes of locations. There are a few books that have been planted though, so I'm wondering if it's the subjects that are significant, or what!


In Markus' case it was a painting that was "codexy" - not the location/purpose.
Ariaden only confirmed the "Galilee project - San Francisco".

The first one cannot found without physical visit and the second one would be hard to find. There was a stern of the ship on the wall. Do not know if this could be found via internet.

I did have a bit of an "aha" reaction when I read about the magnetic survey voyage. Or at least an "Ah! continental drift theory" reaction. But yes, it is very easy to start making connections and finding things to be related. We had a little heads up that Markus was going to reveal something big he found that had him very excited- and then he shows us the painting. . . "Hercules and Omphale" from 1887.. . . my reaction was not "Aha" it was "big deal." Paintings based on Greek myths are everywhere. Is there really any "codexy" connection? So far, only if we make them up, I think. Her name looks a little like Omphalos, she was into spinning and weaving, she had Hercules as a slave and he was a fairly athletic guy.
I agree it is "a very Mythopoetic sort of task" which is also funny because Ariadne pointed out the Thumos aspect of Markus going back to Cardiff. He shifted from Thumos to Mythopoetic on the spot. But I don't think that makes it "a poorly-conceptualized 'puzzle' on the part of the PMs." A lot of the things we are finding out are "facts" and a lot of the questions have "right or wrong" answers. But that kind of puzzle won't appeal to everyone playing and I do think "the PMs" want to give us room to create and invent the game ourselves. It's been a little irritating to me (Sophia) because I want it to make more sense and I could tell you about how going to the Austin History Center is a Thumos challenge for me (Un-Thumos: phobia of reference librarians) and I did start acting Mythopoetic about the findings in the absence of a Spohia answer. Ariadne pulled the rug out from under the "second story puzzle" the next day by saying we didn't really need to physically return to drop sites because all she really wanted was for us to notice more on the internet about that boat. But that doesn't mean we can't still play it this way.

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:53 am
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drizjr
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 		"codexy" second stories
very loose connection
This is a long shot, but for Bruxelles, Belgium:
Casa Manuel, a restaurant in Grand'Place, Grote Markt; there's this 360 view of it's interior online.
There's a wall decoration that looks somewhat omphalos-y (though it's difficult to see), in that it looks like a knotted net.
(See attached screenshot)
lhall wrote:
<snip>* Bruxelles, Belgium - what is the ink etching? <snip>
What's this about an ink etching?
ftlr casa manuel knotted net.JPG
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ftlr casa manuel knotted net.JPG

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:38 am
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lhall
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 		Re: "codexy" second stories
very loose connection
Quote:
lhall wrote:
<snip>* Bruxelles, Belgium - what is the ink etching? <snip>
What's this about an ink etching?


The clue for this one was:

Casa Manuel
Main room
Brick Wall
Righthand side of bar
Behind ink etching

So I thought that might have some relevance?

Great research, I'll also see if I can find some detailed pics.


As for seeing connections that aren't intended by the PMs...I do think that it's a part of it. But that can tie into the rest of the game, in that there's a long interwoven history that we're all a part of, so no coincidence is truly accidental. Even so, I do agree that it would be nice to have a more specific way to know if we're on the right track or not, without having to get confirmation from Ariadne.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:18 pm
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unagi
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 		As to the four new artifacts (these might look like wordplays):
Ch.15: Toronto: a textbook of history correnponds to the content: education of history (of the Olympic Symbol)
Ch.16: Hong Kong: the content is like group rhythmic gymnastics and maybe corresponds to "Art Jamming"
Ch.17: New York City: a foreign language textbook is related to internationality, as jasper hinted
Ch.18: Singapore: the place used to be a parliament where oaths are made at opening ceremonies.

And features common to the two places from the same omphalos (as others mentioned):
Toronto and New York City: a textbook in an inn
Hong Kong and Singapore: sort of an art house

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:16 pm
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AUZ505
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unagi wrote:
As to the four new artifacts (these might look like wordplays):
Ch.15: Toronto: a textbook of history correnponds to the content: education of history (of the Olympic Symbol)
Ch.16: Hong Kong: the content is like group rhythmic gymnastics and maybe corresponds to "Art Jamming"
Ch.17: New York City: a foreign language textbook is related to internationality, as jasper hinted
Ch.18: Singapore: the place used to be a parliament where oaths are made at opening ceremonies.

And features common to the two places from the same omphalos (as others mentioned):
Toronto and New York City: a textbook in an inn
Hong Kong and Singapore: sort of an art house


Perhaps I am annoying. But again, can someone explain, why so many people insist, that there is "some connection" between the location itself and the content of the chapters. I guess it is always possible to find a loose connection between a text and a location. Why are so many people are so sure, that there are no "second stories" like a painting or a ship?

Perhaps I missed the explaination, why we should look for such connections, like "rhytmic gymnastics" and "Art Jamming"
(without offending "unagi" for trying to make that connection)

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:29 pm
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lhall
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 		My view is, any connection that we can detect is relevant - and that there are probably multiple layers. So it could be the physical location of the item, the place where it was found, the history of the area, everything. Even if it wasn't initially intended by the previous group of amnesiacs who planted it there, it's all a part of the larger, interwoven threads of history that connect us all together. Nothing is cooincidental! Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:32 pm
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danteIL
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lhall wrote:
My view is, any connection that we can detect is relevant - and that there are probably multiple layers. So it could be the physical location of the item, the place where it was found, the history of the area, everything. Even if it wasn't initially intended by the previous group of amnesiacs who planted it there, it's all a part of the larger, interwoven threads of history that connect us all together. Nothing is cooincidental! Smile


This way lies madness...

EDIT: here's a possible spec. Markus is actually working with the counter-agonothetai, and he's trying to derail us by trying to distract us with the promise of elusive 'connections.'

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:41 pm
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dreamerblue
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 		thebruce and I didn't think it was relevant, but I will go ahead and mention it anyway...if you look at the photo here, you'll see there was a bandanna on the shelf under the book that held the Toronto codex page (it was actually under the book it's shown on top of, if I recall what thebruce said correctly). The museum does have volunteers dress up, though, and there was a garment bag hanging in the room (like thebruce said before, it seemed like the staff used the room partly as an office but made the room publicly available also...so the room wasn't totally library spic-and-span-and-free-of-clutter), so it may just have been where someone stashed part of their costume.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:40 pm
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snurge
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 		I can't help but keep coming back to these 'second stories' to try to find some more info and i have a couple of questions that hopefully you guys will be able to help me with.

The first one is to do with the painting of Hercules and Omphale from Cardiff that Markus found.
Does anyone know the authenticity of this? Have any of our people been to the City hall and confirmed this? (there is a 'guide' on the website that documents the art around the city hall and i cannot see this painting anywhere). Also, i can't seem to find that exact picture via the web (other than linked through FTLR forums/sites). Has anyone found any other links detailing this painting?

My second question is whether anyone knows any more about the 'ink etching' from the Belgian pickup location?

Lastly, If anyone has any pics or more info about the 'Secret King Lear' pickup from Paris, that'd be good.

Very Happy

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:37 am
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danteIL
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snurge wrote:
The first one is to do with the painting of Hercules and Omphale from Cardiff that Markus found.
Does anyone know the authenticity of this? Have any of our people been to the City hall and confirmed this? (there is a 'guide' on the website that documents the art around the city hall and i cannot see this painting anywhere). Also, i can't seem to find that exact picture via the web (other than linked through FTLR forums/sites). Has anyone found any other links detailing this painting?


For what it's worth, I spent hours exerting all of my google-fu trying to find this painting online, with absolutely no luck. Lots of paintings of Omphale with Hercules in drag, but not the same one. I don't know how we can tell if it really exists in Cardiff or not, unless Ariadne is willing to go back and look at it for us, since I'm sure she has nothing better to do.

Quote:
My second question is whether anyone knows any more about the 'ink etching' from the Belgian pickup location?


The Bruxelles pickup got so messed up with the artifact-stealing and all, that we have no good information about the location, including the ink etching. Someone might be convinced to go back...

Quote:
Lastly, If anyone has any pics or more info about the 'Secret King Lear' pickup from Paris, that'd be good.


Yea, I'd be interested to know how it was 'secret'...

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:09 pm
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unagi
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 		Somebody must have thought of it, but the second story of Seoul might be ancient persecution: Ch.9 = persecution against agonothetai, Polyeucte = persecution against Christians in Armenia.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:28 pm
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AUZ505
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snurge wrote:
The first one is to do with the painting of Hercules and Omphale from Cardiff that Markus found.
Does anyone know the authenticity of this? Have any of our people been to the City hall and confirmed this? (there is a 'guide' on the website that documents the art around the city hall and i cannot see this painting anywhere). Also, i can't seem to find that exact picture via the web (other than linked through FTLR forums/sites). Has anyone found any other links detailing this painting?


On the painting you can read:
"...the Original Painting in the Collection of..."
Unfortunatley I can't read the rest. I asked Markus about a better picture some time ago. He replied that he has not a better picture. Then he wanted to send me the text, but has never done so (sometimes he answers emails, but the most time I do not get an reply Sad)

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:08 pm
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jasper
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danteIL wrote:

For what it's worth, I spent hours exerting all of my google-fu trying to find this painting online, with absolutely no luck. Lots of paintings of Omphale with Hercules in drag, but not the same one. I don't know how we can tell if it really exists in Cardiff or not, unless Ariadne is willing to go back and look at it for us, since I'm sure she has nothing better to do.

If you think it matters, you could call and ask. There is probably a registrar for the collections. Art historical interrogation of characters has convinced me not to expect strict accuracy in such cases.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:34 pm
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AUZ505
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 		here is a PDF with the paintings of the City Hall in Cardiff. There is no Hercules painting listed.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:00 pm
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