Return to Unfiction unforum
 a.r.g.b.b 
FAQ FAQ   Search Search 
 
Welcome!
New users, PLEASE read these forum guidelines. New posters, SEARCH before posting and read these rules before posting your killer new campaign. New players may also wish to peruse the ARG Player Tutorial.

All users must abide by the Terms of Service.
Website Restoration Project
This archiving project is a collaboration between Unfiction and Sean Stacey (SpaceBass), Brian Enigma (BrianEnigma), and Laura E. Hall (lehall) with
the Center for Immersive Arts.
Announcements
This is a static snapshot of the
Unfiction forums, as of
July 23, 2017.
This site is intended as an archive to chronicle the history of Alternate Reality Games.
 
The time now is Thu Nov 21, 2024 12:31 am
All times are UTC - 4 (DST in action)
View posts in this forum since last visit
View unanswered posts in this forum
Calendar
 Forum index » Diversions » TimeWasters
Puzzle Experiment #1
Moderators: Giskard, ndemeter, ScarpeGrosse
View previous topicView next topic
Page 1 of 3 [35 Posts]   Goto page: 1, 2, 3 Next
Author Message
Omega
Unfettered


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 430
Location: Utah

Puzzle Experiment #1
To the Moon!

In an attempt to better familiarize myself with ARG puzzles and to experiment with possible kinds of puzzles in general, I have decided to create a series of weekly test cases for my studies and for the community's enjoyment.

A brief introduction along with all clues required to surpass the puzzle (i.e. text, images, videos, etc.) are provided. For those wishing to participate: If you feel you have extracted key information from the puzzle, solved it altogether, or know what action should be taken next in order to surpass the challenge, please post about it. Treat the puzzle as if it had been found within an actual ARG. On that note, I will be pretending to be an actual PM, and will not provide hints/clues or communicate with testers until the puzzle is solved, or until one week has passed (whichever comes first).

I hope to run an ARG of my own someday when I have more experience (using different puzzles and a more interesting setting, of course). For now, my goal is merely to collect data on puzzle presentation, difficulty, and completion time in order to aid me with future puzzle creation. I will post my findings at the end of each experiment for everyone to view.





Introduction: You are a member of a space exploration team. While sailing through the black, an abandoned yet mysteriously operational moonbase appears on the scanners, and the captain of the ship decides to investigate. Your vessel arrives at the base and docks, but you are denied entry into the base by the automated security system. The display panel outside the door reads, "Enter passcode: ####" and has a numerical 10-digit keypad next to it. Below the panel, some numbers have been carved into the metal plating: "1 3 2 2 3 4 4 1 ". After a few failed password attempts, the captain turns to his crew for answers....

Meta Notes: If you would, please provide your line of reasoning for your solution guesses. Unless I post otherwise, assume solution guesses are incorrect (I'll respond when the correct answer is given). Comments and criticism appreciated!
moonbase.jpg
 Description   moonbase
 Filesize   61.13KB
 Viewed   171 Time(s)

moonbase.jpg

_________________
Puzzle Experiments: #3, #4, #6

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:48 pm
Last edited by Omega on Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:05 am; edited 4 times in total
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
LordIllidan
Unfettered


Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Posts: 737

First guess:

The smaller numbers makes me think they were added at a later date. Possible red herring. Try 1234

Second guess:

Vice versa. 1234 seems too simple. Try 3241

Third Guess:

Exponents? 1 to the third= 1, 2 squared=2, 3 to the fourth= 27, 4 to the fourth = 256. Don't know where to go from here.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:23 am
 View user's profile AIM Address
 Back to top 
makeshift_romeo
Decorated


Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 160
Location: chicago

1st # is 3. 2nd # is 2. 3rd # is 4. 4th # is 1.
_________________
i have an empty head and a heavy heart

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:01 am
 View user's profile Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
 Back to top 
afrokaze
Veteran


Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 96
Location: Bay Area. CA

i'll guess 3434

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:00 am
 View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address
 Back to top 
Highwind-School
Guest


Good idea anyway, it'll give you some practice before you start an actual game.
As for my answer, I'll say 4213.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:13 am
 Back to top 
Tenchizard
Decorated


Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 254

I'll try not looking at the other people reasoning for my first guess:

I'd try 4213 (small number order)
If that doesn't work, then 3241 (big number order)
next try would be 5447 (sums of numbers, small number order)
and then 4475 (sums, big number order)

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:31 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
tao808
Greenhorn


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 8
Location: This reality... or am I?

4212, the small numbers say the order one puts the large numbers in

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:55 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
ncfriend
Unfettered


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 694
Location: Your imagination

Tenchizard wrote:


I'd try 4213 (small number order)
If that doesn't work, then 3241 (big number order)
next try would be 5447 (sums of numbers, small number order)
and then 4475 (sums, big number order)



This would be my first four attempts, although I had the sums (large order) third, sums (small order) fourth.

If that didnt work, I'd try the sets simultaneously (press 1 and 3 at the same time) then two, then 3 and 4, then 4 and 1.) Reasoning: there's a lock on a door at my husbands work with four buttons, you have to press two buttons at the same time, then one button then two buttons at the same time to get in. (granted it's more of an "analog" lock with buttons not keypad, but the idea could still work)..

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:28 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Nighthawk
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 4751
Location: Miami, Florida, USA, Earth

My guess would be 1395.

Using the subscript numbers as indexes, I'd take the digits from the image:

Image has 5319.

1-3 2-2 3-4 4-1

Therefore, 1st is 3rd digit, 2nd is 2nd digit, 3rd is 4th digit, 4th is 1st digit... 1-3-9-5



In the world of ARGs, the answer doesn't have to make sense in the story. There would be absolutely no reason, in the storyline sense, for the numbers to appear in the image. Therfore, they must be necessary for the puzzle.

What I find surprising is that nobody mentioned the image. Can you all not see the numbers?

Furthermore, the first guesses should take in to consideration ALL the information available. If that doesn't work, then begin to discern what the "red herrings", if any, there are. But, nine times out of ten, all the information *is* necessary.
_________________
"Omne ignotum pro magnifico"

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:07 am
 View user's profile Visit poster's website
 Back to top 
Aruvox
Kilroy

Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 1

To me the most logical solution would be 1-3-9-5, based on the numbers in the carvings being the order of the numbers.

I hadn't read the replies in order to start thinking about the puzzle cleanly, but since Nighthawk thought the same, I discovered as I read writing this reply, I won't explain how I came to this conclusion (same theory, useless information to you to read again)

The only diffirence that made me think of this answer is that when I looked at the initial digits, I thought that 1 to 4 and their smaller counterparts, was that it tasted like a guide-line. Like when you see a, b, c, etc somewhere. Starting follow-up things like the alphabet or a numeric line like the 1 to 4, seemed to me like a very clear explanation thing or guide to use to solve it. So there's the guideline, where's my information to put the guide to the test? And there's the numbers on the picture, and you get the 1395.

(I really hope that made sense.. my english isn't all that great)

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:34 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
rowan
Unfictologist

Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 1966

Nighthawk wrote:
In the world of ARGs, the answer doesn't have to make sense in the story. There would be absolutely no reason, in the storyline sense, for the numbers to appear in the image. Therfore, they must be necessary for the puzzle.


See, that's where I would have to disagree with you. In an ARG, the answer should make sense in the story. Otherwise, what's the point? If it's just to solve a series of puzzles, make a puzzle trail out of it, not an ARG.

My problem with the moonbase.jpg is what exactly is it supposed to be? Is it supposed to be what I'm seeing through the scanner? Or what I would see if I was coming up to it physically? Either way, I (as a member of a space exploration team) am supposed to believe that mysterious numbers have appeared on my monitor/in the sky in order to give me the passcode to the door?

Now, if this was a just a regular puzzle trail, I would of course look at the image a lot more closely in order to determine if there was necessary information hidden in it (of course, better puzzle trails would hide the numbers in the buildings or elsewhere rather than just pasted in the sky). But this is not supposed to be a puzzle trail, right? This is supposed to be found within an actual ARG and thus the whole picture with the hidden numbers makes absolutely no sense if I'm supposed to be treating the game as something 'real' (at least the way the scenario is set up).

Now, if say the picture was a postcard sent to a member of the space exploration crew with a message scrawled upon the back saying 'Help Us', then you could argue that the numbers mean something (they were put there by the person who sent the post card to begin with). But since there is no explanation as to what the moonbase picture actually is, and the scenario as laid out makes it just seem like what the crew members are seeing (either on a scanner or with their own eyes) the idea of using the hidden numbers as part of the solution doesn't sit well with me at all.
_________________
follow @arg_deaddrop on twitter

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:50 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Nighthawk
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 4751
Location: Miami, Florida, USA, Earth

Quote:
See, that's where I would have to disagree with you. In an ARG, the answer should make sense in the story. Otherwise, what's the point? If it's just to solve a series of puzzles, make a puzzle trail out of it, not an ARG.


Well, it *should*, but it sometimes doesn't.

I mean, look at it: almost every ARG in one way or another involves ROT-13, Vigenere, Enigma, etc... Is that a common storytelling device? How about "stegging" or Camouflage?

I hadn't heard of most of these until I actually started "playing" ARGs.

In LGL, one of my first thoughts was the Rubik's Cube puzzle, but then I had the dilemma of "how do I make this part of the storyline?" I portrayed it as an effort by Joshua to test the capabilities of people that he was looking to help for, but that doesn't really explain things. I never did explain who mailed the cubes, to be honest; it's assumed Joshua did (using corporate funds to do so would be unethical, even for him), but I never state it as such.

I made a conscious effort to explain how the puzzle came to be within the realm of the story, but not many people go through that effort.
_________________
"Omne ignotum pro magnifico"

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:01 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website
 Back to top 
Big_Larry
Veteran


Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 96
Location: Not there... maybe somewhere else.

So I would start with something simple:

1^3 = 1
2^2 = 4
3^4 = 81
4^1 = 4

Thus, the first two options for me would be:

1494
1485

The next option would be based on order:

4213

However, factoring the picture in with the metal plate:

5319 (from picture)
1 3 2 2 3 4 4 1 (from plate)

5 would be the third number
3 would be the second number
1 would be the fourth number
9 would be the first number

and thus, 9351 would be my next guess.

I would the follow up with a different combination:

5^3 = 15
3^2 = 6
1^4 = 1
9^1 = 9

which would result in

6619
1129

Otherwise, I would start looking for other fun stuff, like something stegged or something in source.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:39 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
rowan
Unfictologist

Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 1966

Nighthawk wrote:
Well, it *should*, but it sometimes doesn't.

I mean, look at it: almost every ARG in one way or another involves ROT-13, Vigenere, Enigma, etc... Is that a common storytelling device? How about "stegging" or Camouflage?

Sadly, it is a common storytelling device. But just because it's common, doesn't mean it's good. It's just an incredibly easy way to add 'mystery' and a 'puzzle' because that's what (IMHO) novice/unexperienced PMs think that is players want. And based upon the reaction that these type of games get, there are some players that want it, or at least will tolerate it, because its easy for them to move from one point of the story to another with relatively little effort. But, the more these games pop up, the more you begin to see (or at least I do) the same players doing the same things over and over again.

To me, being stuck in a rut is not fun at all.

You say that you hadn't heard of most of these until you actually started playing ARGs. And you know why that is? Because those types of 'puzzles' for the most part only exist in ARGs and not in the real world. Secret government agencies aren't going to hide their secrets in a memo encoded with vigenere. They are gonna use slightly more sophisticated methods. Someone* once said that you are allowed one big conceit in an ARG, but after that you tend to lose people. So you can have rogue AIs, time travel, and aliens in your game and people will accept it no problem. But you shouldn't then try to change the laws of physics (or common sense) in order just to move the story along. Sure it's easier, but there isn't a whole lot of satisfaction in it. I'd be willing to be in a list of the most satisfying puzzles to solve that you're gonna see ROT-13 or a basic Vigenere.

Even if a PM decides that they want to do something like ROT or Vigenere or Enigma, there are a million and one ways to incorporate organically it into a game without just dropping it like an anvil out there to be solved. Takes notes from stories like The Purloined Letter about hiding things in plain sight. Watch TV (Prison Break, Firefly) or movies (Red Dragon) to see how you add a note of subtlety to a puzzle, making it more enjoyable for everyone involved. Just like there should be a reason for every story point, there should be a real reason that makes sense in a story line for every puzzle.




*I want to say this was Elan Lee who said it, but I could be wrong. Apologies if I am.
_________________
follow @arg_deaddrop on twitter

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:23 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
makeshift_romeo
Decorated


Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 160
Location: chicago

My second guess is 4475. As in: 1 # away from 3 is 4. 2 #'s away from 2 is 4. 3 #'s away from 4 is 7. 4 #'s away from 1 is 5. Get it?! 4475.
_________________
i have an empty head and a heavy heart

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:05 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
 Back to top 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 1 of 3 [35 Posts]   Goto page: 1, 2, 3 Next
View previous topicView next topic
 Forum index » Diversions » TimeWasters
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
You cannot post calendar events in this forum



Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group