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 Forum index » Meta » Puppetmaster Help
PM Advice: Don't "Gamejack" Other PM's Games
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FLmutant
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Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 244
Location: Orlando, FL

 PM Advice: Don't "Gamejack" Other PM's Games
a growing trend we shouldn't be quiet about anymore

With all the discussions among UF about "gamejacking" (where a player produces materials hoping to convince the rest of the player base it is "official content"), I thought it might be worth highlighting the fact that some PMs and advertising agencies making "virals" that UF enjoys engage in the same behavior. In many ways, players doing it is just a sign of bad game design from PMs ... but when another PM or ad agency are doing it? That's bad karma that deserves to bite them back in the butt.

I've had at least one "professional game jack attempt" in every ARG I've done since (and including) The Art of the Heist. Frequently it is an advertising agency posting in a community site trying to draw people their "viral project" by leaving it nebulous if their post is coming from an "official character". Occassionally, it is another PM directly trying to do that. For the last couple of years, I've tried to handle those situations professionally behind the scenes, but then you're only educating people AFTER they've broken a professional courtesy.

Advice to PMs and ad agencies: shilling your experience inside of someone else's experience is like trying to sell your CDs outside of another band's gig ... or like standing in a movie theater while the movie is playing telling the audience about how they should come next door and check out your movie instead. Or like a telelvision network floating the logo of you client's competitior in the upper right hand corner of the television ad spot your client paid for.

So, to start the naming of names, just because they were the most recent abuser of that: the PMs of this game were rather aggressive about sending their mysterious emails to players of Eldritch Errors via email accounts those players never used here at UF but do have with their board profiles at EE. That prompted more than one of our players to "break the curtain" in order to ask us (and this is a direct quote from one of those emails): "whether or not this is IG or is just a scavenger looking to rape your playerbase?"

I bring up the example to serve as illustration for future PMs: you don't end up creating any loyalty when you do things like the above. Not from the players of the other game who feel like you tried to "trick them," nor from the storytellers of the other experience who are surprised that threads like this are even needed in the community. This was a relatively minor example (compared to say ad agencies, where I know someone was actually PAID to do the same kind of activity ... wait, worse, they CHARGED THEIR CLIENT for doing that kind of activity on their behalf.) At least with a grassroots PM you can chalk it up to the community being less than clear and unified in their distaste for the practice.

I'm sure every other PM has similar stories that made their jaw drop.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:24 am
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Will 2.0
Unfictologist


Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 1431
Location: Burlington, Vermont

OHHH yes I have. I completely agree with you. It's just horrible. If someone is that interested in the game they should spend their time playing it, not playing mimic.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:43 am
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Jas0n
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Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 244

I'm with you there FL...

only thing for me though, not being on a corporate team running a game for profit... is that while sometimes gamejacking is flattering (because it only happens if your game is doing good) the biggest problem with it isn't necessarily taking attention away from the game you're developing - it's the confusion for the gamers that is the biggest issue.

I don't feel offended by someone targetting players who are focused on my game. I get offended when someone tries to create a character in my game to divert attention to their game. For me the whole experience as a developer is to give the best to the players and when someone detracts from that, then it's really aggrivating.

I'm not quite as experienced as FLMutant in these matters though, and I will say that when it was attempted during Ny Takma. I was really aggitated with the individual trying to pass it off as something connected to the game. [/url]
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:04 pm
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D14BL0
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Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 12

I experienced gamejacking with my last game, and to be quite honest, it actually worked out pretty well. I had some problems with the game (premature launch, wasn't even finished writing everything yet), so I let the other player and his characters fill in some blanks, and it added a whole lot more to the game.

Then again, it was my first game, grassroots, unfinished, and written on-the-fly, so it worked out. I'm sure if I had everything set up the way I initially wanted it to be, it wouldn't have worked out, though.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:22 am
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konamouse
Official uF Dietitian


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 8010
Location: My own alternate reality

D14BL0, What was your game?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:28 am
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Will 2.0
Unfictologist


Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 1431
Location: Burlington, Vermont

Yeah really, I haven't had it done in my games, luckily but Diablo that is rare that they really HELP the PM and if done so did you speak with him/her regularly?

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:33 am
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D14BL0
Boot

Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 12

konamouse wrote:
D14BL0, What was your game?
Five Points. Short little MySpace game that took off rather well, but went faster than I could keep up with.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:59 am
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Will 2.0
Unfictologist


Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 1431
Location: Burlington, Vermont

Strange...but good for your either way.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:44 am
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Mar_Vell
Boot


Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 31

Re: PM Advice: Don't "Gamejack" Other PM's Games
a growing trend we shouldn't be quiet about anymore

FLmutant wrote:
With all the discussions among UF about "gamejacking" (where a player produces materials hoping to convince the rest of the player base it is "official content"), I thought it might be worth highlighting the fact that some PMs and advertising agencies making "virals" that UF enjoys engage in the same behavior. In many ways, players doing it is just a sign of bad game design from PMs ... but when another PM or ad agency are doing it? That's bad karma that deserves to bite them back in the butt.

I've had at least one "professional game jack attempt" in every ARG I've done since (and including) The Art of the Heist. Frequently it is an advertising agency posting in a community site trying to draw people their "viral project" by leaving it nebulous if their post is coming from an "official character". Occassionally, it is another PM directly trying to do that. For the last couple of years, I've tried to handle those situations professionally behind the scenes, but then you're only educating people AFTER they've broken a professional courtesy.

Advice to PMs and ad agencies: shilling your experience inside of someone else's experience is like trying to sell your CDs outside of another band's gig ... or like standing in a movie theater while the movie is playing telling the audience about how they should come next door and check out your movie instead. Or like a telelvision network floating the logo of you client's competitior in the upper right hand corner of the television ad spot your client paid for.

So, to start the naming of names, just because they were the most recent abuser of that: the PMs of this game were rather aggressive about sending their mysterious emails to players of Eldritch Errors via email accounts those players never used here at UF but do have with their board profiles at EE. That prompted more than one of our players to "break the curtain" in order to ask us (and this is a direct quote from one of those emails): "whether or not this is IG or is just a scavenger looking to rape your playerbase?"

I bring up the example to serve as illustration for future PMs: you don't end up creating any loyalty when you do things like the above. Not from the players of the other game who feel like you tried to "trick them," nor from the storytellers of the other experience who are surprised that threads like this are even needed in the community. This was a relatively minor example (compared to say ad agencies, where I know someone was actually PAID to do the same kind of activity ... wait, worse, they CHARGED THEIR CLIENT for doing that kind of activity on their behalf.) At least with a grassroots PM you can chalk it up to the community being less than clear and unified in their distaste for the practice.

I'm sure every other PM has similar stories that made their jaw drop.


I never saw this. If I would've seen it earlier than I would have apologized for my mistake much sooner. I wasn't trying to "GameJack" anybody but I'm still not proud of my actions. I used what was availiable to me because I was a pipskweek PM who thought he knew what he was doing. The game failed for the same reasons.

I just wanted to apologize. I feal awful and would change it if I could.
-With much remorse,
Josh "Mar_Vell" Moore

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 1:16 am
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mac_monkey
Decorated

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 250

Interesting opinions in this thread. I'm not entirely convinced that gamejacking is necessarily bad for a game. As a puppetmaster you have to let people explore the boundaries of the game without actually physically point them out. As a result of this gamejacking can occur - often because people don't know the boundaries and try to make their mark on the world (such as RP-ing) which I found in my game, but also people try to undermine the game because they see elements in the story that they can play around with.

It's up to the puppetmaster to control what players can and can't do from in game and under no circumstances should they jump into a thread and go - "Hey, thats my game not yours". If the freedom's there for releplay, people will exploit that. Know that you're giving them the oppurtunity to do it and try to turn this into a positive experience.

Mac
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 7:46 am
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