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 Forum index » Meta » General META Discussion
Forced Recruitment
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vpisteve
Asshatministrator


Joined: 30 Sep 2002
Posts: 2441
Location: 1987
Nighthawk wrote:


In your Dark Knight example... To be honest, do you know for sure they got the amount needed, or did they either overinflate the numbers or purposely reveal pixels? I mean, considering an image's resolution you're talking about tens of thousands of email addresses... there's no proof that they got that. If they didn't, should the game end there? No; keep revealing the image regardless of how many you get, but make people *think* it's working.



Overinflating numbers would be tantamount to posting in forums as players, giving hints, nudges, or otherwise entering/manipulating/influencing player-space.

It not only breaks the trust, but then becomes like "what's the point? might as well just build a game for ourselves, then."

Some ARG developers don't have a problem with breaking player-trust. But some have a pretty big problem with it.

... Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:09 pm
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Nighthawk
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 4751
Location: Miami, Florida, USA, Earth
Rekidk wrote:
redct wrote:
As everyone knows, the only reason Cloverfield got crazy player numbers is the hype. The game might've sucked, but the viral marketing really worked its mojo there.


I completely agree; as a viral marketing campaign, it was a great success. (I went to see the movie!) As an ARG, however, it was somewhat disappointing for many of the players. Yes, it got its players through hype, but the hype/playerbase didn't make it a great ARG. Smile


You're assuming Cloverfield was an actual "game" to begin with. I don't think it ever meant to be that.

Cloverfield was a "viral marketing campaign", but I still don't think it qualifies as a "game". People went in to expecting a game, and were disillusioned when it didn't become one.

I think that's part of the unexplained fascination with Amygdala: that *is* a game, and is filling that gap the Cloverfield fans were expecting.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:46 pm
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catherwood
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee

Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 4109
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
vpisteve wrote:
Nighthawk wrote:
In your Dark Knight example... To be honest, do you know for sure they got the amount needed, or did they either overinflate the numbers or purposely reveal pixels? ...keep revealing the image regardless of how many you get, but make people *think* it's working.

Overinflating numbers would be tantamount to posting in forums as players, giving hints, nudges, or otherwise entering/manipulating/influencing player-space.

Giving the illusion of player agency? The Apollo candy bar phase of The Lost Experience did this with their progress meter. Once the players figured out that their efforts were not really driving the advancement, they just gave up the effort entirely. It's a chump thing to do; however, I'm not sure I'd put it on the same level as posing as a player to post hints in their forums.

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:49 pm
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krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 26 Sep 2002
Posts: 3651
Location: Is not Chicago

 		They may look cosmetically like two different things, but the effect's pretty much the same.
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:40 am
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Karensa
Decorated


Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 152
Location: At The Computer

 		Merging Paths
Disclaimer - I read almost all page one and scanned page two so if this was mentioned, I missed it - but I had a question, or observation, curiosity with regard to trailhead risks based off the comment on TDK and what would've happened if they didn't get enough people to start.

I would imagine (as others may well have before me) they had taken that particular path into consideration and not hinged the whole thing on that option....which got me reflecting on some of the games I've been browsing here over the time I've been here and haven't really seen this in any obvious manner.

Such as, the "in group" of pms and players who already know each other tend to stick together in launching games, not really branching into the unknowns or the facless lurkers even with contact info...so the "done to death" email launch tends to be the same group of people all getting the same email and heading to uf to post about it and likely having been beaten to the punch.

Or the same in group - or a portion thereof - gets the cool box with strange cubes and then they all show at uf to kick the thing off.

My question is this...how often do pm's actually incorporate a variety of launch points, trailheads, rabbit holes from a variety of angles and perspectives. TDK seems to have that covered with their gazillion damn website hooks from every conceivable angle (I'd jump in soon as I trip over the James Gordon Porn Site Sting Operation :-0 ) so if you missed this one, there's a 100% chance you'd find some other doorway in.

Seems like the going trend here is the same people getting the same doorway in the same way at the same time.

Have there been any recent games where a random assortment of potential players happened upon a variety of holes, even the "dormant trailhead" as mentioned elsewhere...maybe one or two gets the email, another a strange phone message, someone else found a website, another person found the CD in a bathroom stall, someone else found a flyer on their windshield, another one was at a club and saw the poster, another one somewhere else got the mystery box of photos...and each one of those trails told a different aspect of a story or mix thereof, and eventually those separate trails merged into a community of people sharing notes and putting things together.

I don't mean a bunch of different people finding all 4 websites that are seemingly unrelated, I mean the above wide variety of entry points that are self contained entry points that LEAD into the story and merge with other paths.

If there have been, what are they - I'd like to browse. If not...that would be really cool, I think. Smile
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 1:39 pm
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rowan
Unfictologist

Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 1966

 		Re: Merging Paths
Karensa wrote:
My question is this...how often do pm's actually incorporate a variety of launch points, trailheads, rabbit holes from a variety of angles and perspectives.


In the grand scheme of things, I would say not often at all. But that's because overall there have been so many more grassroots games that launch to just a small UF only audience rather than larger games that are trying to reach the general populace.

UF and ARG sites in general occupy only a very small corner of the web. The vast majority of the internet surfing public have no idea we even exist over here. So it makes no sense that games like Dark Knight, Lost Ring, Holomove, I Love Bees, Art of the Heist, Last Call Poker, Year Zero, etc. would exclusively launch their games through UF because the people they are marketing the campaigns to would never see it. That's why they target specific communities with packages to get other core groups interested in the game. And then they move onto blanketing the web with ads and such to get the casual surfing public involved. In the end, you'll have many different groups working together and spreading the word even farther.

But this type of campaign takes a lot of time, money and effort which isn't something that most grassroots PMs have, especially when they find out about ARGs on Monday and launch their game on Saturday. If all you've ever looked at are games that launch through random AIM convos or ROT13 emails, then games like TDK (with all its different rabbit holes) will seem otherworldly with what it accomplishes. But compared to other large games, you'll see that it's almost par for the course.
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 2:29 pm
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Nighthawk
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 4751
Location: Miami, Florida, USA, Earth

 		Trailheads that start here are cryptic (ROT13, Vigenere, Morse code), but "real world" trailheads like TDK, FTLR and Holomove are like "Hey, here's the rabbit hole, stupid!" because the requirements for participation are significantly lower and they can target a larger, ARG inexperienced audience.

I refuse to do a trailhead with a cypher in it; it just feels wrong. But I don't have a comforting alternative yet. Not only am I not complete in my design, I still haven't figured out exactly how I'm going to kick things off.

But, relating to the initial topic, recruitment has been better than I ever anticipated; I passed 200 signups yesterday. And that's without advertising (I intended to advertise on Facebook and other places as another "proof of concept", but I am having technical issues with my Paypal account).

I'm tempted to provide registration services similar to the page I put together through Brain Clouds, guaranteeing that the information of the people who registers will be kept confidential to the PM even though I will be hosting it and providing the mechanics for it. Does that sound like an idea?
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:35 pm
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rowan
Unfictologist

Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 1966
Nighthawk wrote:
Trailheads that start here are cryptic (ROT13, Vigenere, Morse code), but "real world" trailheads like TDK, FTLR and Holomove are like "Hey, here's the rabbit hole, stupid!" because the requirements for participation are significantly lower and they can target a larger, ARG inexperienced audience.

Just because something is pull (rather than push) marketing doesn't mean that the people who are influenced by it are stupid. In fact, I would say it takes more creativity by the PMs to make it and more awareness by the public to recognize it then it does to make an obvious email/im/post code and send it out to players specific ARG accounts. And it certainly doesn't take much awareness for an ARG player to see that 'ooh, that weird email in my inbox is a trailhead!'

Ask yourself when the last time you actually saw a trailhead out in the wild. They are out there (I could name about five in the past six months) if you know how to look - but I'd be willing to bet that most players on here simply ignored them. So what does that say about stupidity?
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:47 pm
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Karensa
Decorated


Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Quote:
I'm tempted to provide registration services similar to the page I put together through Brain Clouds, guaranteeing that the information of the people who registers will be kept confidential to the PM even though I will be hosting it and providing the mechanics for it. Does that sound like an idea?


Does to me, but then I'm a little more adventurous about things s o hey ;-p


I realize the whole idea behind this particular game style is fictional realism so a blatant announcement of sorts that "this IS a game" is resisted on its face (nevermind the about face for producers of movie experiences), but for those people who are capable of suspension of belief for the sake of experience, there could also be an option made available to those inside the arg with a set, standard, specific email address/domain. It can be generic and mysterious, but when it arrives in the inbox those who follow args at all will recognize it as a legit piece of mail and not spam...and can continue to use whatever criteria they already use to decide whether or not to participate.

It could also serve as a meta link...for any email with that specific extention, have a meta location somewhere, on here or argn or wiki, whatever that opens up the world of args. So Joe Blow has no idea what args are or that they are, but gets a bizarre enough email that he's baited more than assuming it's spam...he's still got a built in meta path to pursue - looking up the host domain to see what's up there, which would lead to the meta info on the arg game...so they will be at ease and can go back to checking into the game itself - a total voluntary suspension of belief.

The registrations and player list ARE good ideas and really could go a long way in broadening the reach into mainstream - but with a very well structured boundary everyone is conscious of but that doesn't interfere in the experience. They have an administered database to find players who were willing to put out their real info to be contacted, they have an administered database of PMs who recruit regularly, they have a recognizable 'trademark' email option that is completely subtle and can always expand for other in game email accounts from wherever, they have an inworld option for resource and research and those on the outside have something with cohesion and structure to serve as a comfort zone to learn and get involved without being scared shitless some crazy person has their info, or being clueless and oblivious and deleting the last 15 trailheads they got cause they figured it was junkmail.


If there could be some OOG style structure or framework for people - like the theater building is to the moviegoers who paid an entry fee for the entertainment experience - they they recognize is simply there to host the experience and does not otherwise interfere, they could settle down the trust issues and be more willing to buy games.


Those who will whine and fear monger no matter what, don't sweat those people - they're living on the sidelines anyway and if you're honest, you know those ones aren't really your market audience anyway Wink


EDIT FOR AFTERTHOUGHT ON EMAIL - What about instead, a specifc arg sort of email account for gaming only so people don't have to use their regular accounts. If registered players have an arg related email, then the incoming email from whatever account can always be comfortably assumed to be IG...cause the only ones who could access it would be PMs from the playerbase contact listing. Same idea, just instead of PMs coming from a specific email domain, the players have an arg domain.
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It's two fat German guy's making shit up as they go along. I'm pissed I wasted my time with this! Mr. Green

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 11:07 pm
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Euchre
uF Game Warden


Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 3342

 		First off, the 'forced recruitment' thing makes any of these Chaotic Fiction entities a cheap whoring, slave labor experience. Screw that. "Recruitment" should happen as a reaction, not a compulsion - people should be so inspired as to evangelize on their own. If that happens and you don't get that many people involved it's because you've got a narrow scope, or your CF sucked plain and simple.

As for that email thing with Dark Knight - what's to have prevented someone from contributing multiple emails? Webmail can't be traced right to the end user, so it's not like they could readily corroborate based on that. If they checked the IP of those submitting, they could stand to block out a fair number of people - and loose their market share. Remember, Dark Knight is a film first, a game second. They left the door open for the players to achieve the end results, through real recruitment or through their own dedication and willingness to get involved.

Speaking of something being a film first and a CF second, yes there's Cloverfield. Because of some people having such a narrow idea of what an "ARG" has to be (puzzles, 'turns', or such), it's often decried as not being a 'game'. Get beyond the stumbling block of labels though, and look at the whole thing for what it was. I find it funny that it is being 'insulted' by being called hype - that's exactly what it was meant to be. It wasn't that the thing was hyped, it IS hype. It had a very basic and minimal level of interaction, but it had engagement in that it got people to talk about the 'clues' found. It didn't play a game of 'do a flip, get a treat', it didn't sit you down and tell you a story - you had to think about it, and that was the 'game'. Your reward was a whole insight into the world of Cloverfield that some never felt. What was masterful about this 'un-game' was that it intrigued people and got them fascinated and passionate about the subject, and those it first reached did reach out and engage others. Recruitment was definitely a function of the reaction to it. I myself am a prime example; I saw the teaser and first hunted down info - then talked to just about everybody about it in the next week. I'd say their recruitment model worked. Wink
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 1:17 am
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krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 26 Sep 2002
Posts: 3651
Location: Is not Chicago

 		'More accessible' does not automagically equal 'more dumb.'

The idea that opening up a game or experience to more people is reliant on a 'stupid' average player base is distasteful, at best.






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EDITED TO ADD:

I need to add more stroopwafels, cos I just hit 3,000 posts!

Gosh, remember the days when I was the #1 poster here for, like, a long time? I mean, after I beat Steve out? He's stuck in 1987 anyway, what does he know?

Three. Thousand. QUALITY. Posts.

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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 1:55 am
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konamouse
Official uF Dietitian


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
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krystyn wrote:
Three. Thousand. QUALITY. Posts.


Meh. Five. Thousand. QUALITY. Posts. Cool
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 3:29 am
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thebruce
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 		..almost...4000...mostly quality posts? (minus this one)
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 3:36 am
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Nighthawk
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 14 Jul 2007
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Location: Miami, Florida, USA, Earth

 		You people talk too much...
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 3:46 am
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Agent Lex
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krystyn wrote:
Three. Thousand...Posts.

Obligatory 3k club link

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 7:40 am
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