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Should we do this?

Yes, I love pain!
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 42%  [ 12 ]
No! That's wrong, and you're sick. (and I hate puppies)
57%
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Total Votes : 28

 
 Forum index » Meta » Various & Sundry
[META/OT] The "intentional trout" game
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aiesha_anonymous
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Joined: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 101
Location: Australia

Nightmare Tony wrote:
Need an entry level ARG for them to whet their whistles on...


an entry level ARG? will such a thing ever exist?

and although i'm pretty sure you didn't mean it as such, this could be taken as rather patronising. after all just because someone is new to the genre doesn't mean they're not up to an equally complex ARG as much as someone who's been participating for years.

it takes a while to learn the ins and outs of any new group or culture. hopefully, as a community we can handle this induction phase with grace and generousity. and although i commend any initiative which will help new and old members of unfiction feel more confident and more able to express their ideas i agree with Magesteff that segregation and a trout-free thread is not necessarily the way to go. if all of the current trouting is truly causing a problem which will be long-term and to the detriment of unfiction maybe we should brainstorm some other ways we might deal with it. imo.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 5:15 am
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Karmic_Crimewave
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Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 139
Location: The Village

Quote:
an entry level ARG? will such a thing ever exist?


In a lot of ways, almost every Arg can be an entry level ARG. It's granted that not everything is going to be as easy the initial VQC stuff was on it's onset, but when you look back at the most notable forerunners (The Beast, LockJaw, Out Of Control, Chasing the Wish, ect.), you'll notice that a lot of people had to cut to their teeth on games that were less than "easy".

Here Starteth the Rant

I admit that I came the dance late, compared to most of the hardcore ARGers here. I missed The Beast, caught the tale end of Lockjaw and the start of OOC, and then wound up sitting, lurking and waiting for one I could jump in from the start on (in this case UH). Up until now I haven't really made the effort to join the community. Hell, I'm really not that adept when it comes to a lot of the puzzles...And just a few days ago I managed to serve up some Catch-Of-the-Day quality trout on a thread where I repeated something that was mentioned 3 posts earlier...But I feel like all that gives me a little me a little perspective on this.

As far as I know, we're all playing ARGs for the same reason: To have fun. Quite frankly, this "intentional trout" idea sounds too much like fun at other people's expense to me. Maybe I'm misunderstanding it - or simply not reading it in the spirit which it was meant - but it almost seems like mocking and finding new ways to make fun of the newcomers. I don't mean to offend you -really I don't- but it seems a bit immature. Online communties where there's nothing but discussion going on are hard enough to manage to get into when they've been established...How many times have you seen new posters get ignored because they have less than 1,000 posts on a board? And if not ignored, just insulted and derided because they're new? Happens quite a bit. It seems to me that the game you're suggesting is parallel to that. Quite honestly, I've always thought that this forum was better than that.

I won't lie. I was a little concerned when the NY Times ran the ARG article. I groaned when ILB started getting noticed and suddenly there was a welcome to the HALO players on the Index. I damned near screamed when UH got slashdotted. I was (like most people, whether they want to say it or not) concerned about the sudden influx of new people diluting -if not destroying- the talent pool of the community. Then I realized it didn't matter. The ones that don't want to stick around won't. The ones that don't have the skills or paitence to play will follow them. But that ones that stick around might make it worth it. Sure in the meantime they might make pointless, far-out, or irritating "contributions" to whatever game they're working on...But hey, they're new to all this.

And I think I remember how that used to feel.

Here Endeth the Rant

Besides, it might be more fun to send chasing after RedKore...Or maybe Tron 2.0 .

Of course, that's just me...Your mileage may vary.

Again, I'm sorry if I'm taking this out of the context it was meant, but it also allowed me to rant about the sudden influx people, as well. All in all, that amkes it a good day in my book.

[/i]
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:21 am
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Nightmare Tony
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Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 824
Location: Meadowbrook

Didnt mean to be patronizing. After posting up too much drivel (myself, no one else, thanks!) and two people graciously have me notes in the PS forums, I calmed down before it got the point of becoming a trout master. After a complete and utter failure to contribute to the anniversary game, thats why I think a small gentler ARG for newcomers owuld be a way to teach. One learned the ways of trout FAST after reading up the Haunted Apiary forums!

but DANG, if the HA is hard with absolutely no discernible progress! One wants to simply scream BRING IN A CLOUDMAKER TO SOLVE IT IN ONE DAY!!!
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 11:41 am
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konamouse
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Joined: 02 Dec 2002
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Location: My own alternate reality

Orbital Colony - that might be a good ARG for wetting your whistles! I don't think it will be easy. But it's not an iron curtain for the PM team and there in lies the rub - it's an opportunity for both new PMs and new players to learn.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 11:48 am
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MageSteff
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?


Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 2716
Location: State of Denial

konamouse wrote:
Orbital Colony - that might be a good ARG for wetting your whistles! I don't think it will be easy. But it's not an iron curtain for the PM team and there in lies the rub - it's an opportunity for both new PMs and new players to learn.



It's a training ARG for the PuppetMasters not the players!!!

But I invite any of the new people who have just joined recently and players who have been around but away from the game and players who are darn near addicted to the games to join us. Just keep in mind that the orbital colony game, the "curtain issues" are very different from other ARGs, and there are a few "suspects" you can ask a questions about the genre (we will not be giving out free hints).

I do suggest that everyone take some time to read through the Player tutorial section here at uF which will give you the basics to get your feet under you, and if you are able to, join one of the many chat rooms and ask a few questions, or hang out and just listen to the chatter.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:05 pm
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Dorkmaster
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 1328
Location: The People's Republic of Dork

Ok, well the people have spoken. We will NOT do this, and I would beg of people not to, since the majority does not want us to. And that's respected. You wanna start your own forum and do it there, that's cool.


But, before I call for locking and a final end to this stuff, I'm going to put in my 2 cents and just clarify my motives to starting this thing:

1) Was not intended to hurt anyone. While there may have been the occasional person who was hurt, (as there will be in any practical joke,) the point was not to humiliate, but to simply observe. (Ok, and to shake our communal heads, and smirk occasionally)

2) Was motivated by seeing people who can't stand silence. More than anything, this was because I found it hilarious and also annoying that a lot of people couldn't stand waiting for the next update. So they posted here, sometimes WILD WILD specs and didn't care if it had been posted before, because someone had to have an idea about SOMETHING, RIGHT?!? But no... no one did really care... Razz They just wanted to be heard in a gigantic forum called the World Wide Web, in front of intelligent people, and be responded to, and coddled... But that's not what this place is about... (Again, this sounds harsh, and it's not buffered at all, but it's true, and you know it... Wink )

3) Was more aimed at those who just wouldn't/shouldn't get it. I know it would have attracted those noobs who have every right to a mulligan once in a while (that was me a week ago!) I did it more for those who should know better. Because I feel that the next step beyond informing, gently admonishing, and strongly reinforcing the rules of a place such as the unforum, is mocking. Lots and lots of mocking. That gets the rules across! (ok, so I don't really think that, but it's not necessarily untrue...) But my point is that this would be for the person who has posted 20 times, is still not registered, has had at least three good troutings, and is informed each time about the search function and the Wiki, and STILL POSTS TROUTY DRIVEL just to hear his/her own voice... That's what this was to poke fun of... not the new guy/girl...

4) also cuz it's kinda, you know.... funny. Ok? Even Magesteff, one of the uberARGers (yeah I made it up, wanna fight about it? Laughing ) thought it was mildly amusing... so I can't be THAT wrong....


But again, I do discourage it, because that was the point of this whole thing, to get a vibe for the community, which has spoken! I will listen! Thanks for your time, and I'll see ya when we get the next Communique from Dana... (Wouldn't it suck to have to wait until the medium metastisizes? D'OH!)

PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 11:38 am
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bill
Unfettered


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 614
Location: Tampa

Magesteff wrote:


It's a training ARG for the PuppetMasters not the players!!!


Steff,

Lesson 1: You can't control who your players are going to be. If you end up with a bunch of new players that don't understand the genre, you will be training them, like it or not.

Lesson 2: If you have an opinion that might not be shared by others, you might want to identify it as an opinion. Your statement was tantamount to telling new players not to play unless they "learn the rules." As nice a goal as that is, it's unrealistic and doesn't happen to represent MY opinion of what newcomers need to do.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:14 pm
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Wishi-san
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Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Posts: 602
Location: UK. Southwards.

I think you may have taken that the wrong way Bill.

It seemed to me she was clarifying that Orbital Colony was a training game for the PMs in case people thought it was specifically for training new players.

Isn't everything an opinion? Or do we need to write that at the start of all posts? It is a training ARG for PMs and has never been made out to be anything else.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:46 pm
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bill
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Joined: 25 Sep 2002
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Wishi-san wrote:
I think you may have taken that the wrong way Bill.

It seemed to me she was clarifying that Orbital Colony was a training game for the PMs in case people thought it was specifically for training new players.


Although this was the stated intent, new players will inevitably be involved and should be welcomed. I read steff's post as a 'stay away' directed towards new players.

Wishi-san wrote:
Isn't everything an opinion? Or do we need to write that at the start of all posts? It is a training ARG for PMs and has never been made out to be anything else.


If you make absolute statements that apply to the entire genre, maybe you should. None of us are designated as the spokesperson for the genre and statements that could easily be construed as gospel really need to be considered carefully instead of being posted hastily.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:54 pm
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Wishi-san
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Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Posts: 602
Location: UK. Southwards.

Quote:
But I invite any of the new people who have just joined recently and players who have been around but away from the game and players who are darn near addicted to the games to join us.


Well you did only quote one line from her post. Considering the next bit was the above, it seems that she certainly wasn't saying stay away. She in fact invites everyone to join.

Your reply sounded decidedly agressive to me when it was most likely just you who misconstrued her post.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:30 pm
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Varin
I Have No Life


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 2456
Location: South of where I used to be

Although I can't speak for Magesteff, I'd have to say that I took the post the same as Wishi did here. I think Magesteff was just making it clear that, although this is going to be a training ARG for PMs, it is going to be a real ARG for players. There won't be an step-by-step instruction booklet given out with registration Wink

But, as kona pointed out it and Magesteff mentioned it may be easier for first time ARGers since the PMs are known and can answer questions.

Back to our regularly scheduled thread topic Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:15 pm
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Fi
Unfettered


Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 444
Location: London

As a relative n00b still, I find it's the complexity of a game which makes it "harder" for me - the time it takes to keep up, read posts, wade through noise. In a way Bees is gonna be a great game for n00bs because of all the work put in by the admins and mods here - the Wiki, the Beelog, the posting guidelines, player tutorials, effective thread management etc etc. By ensuring that a clean as possible route is provided to the main points, it really does make it so much easier to keep on top of things.

Well, all that *and* sneakily logging in from work Wink

Fi
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:12 pm
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