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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
[SPEC] Piggyback virus and Melissa's transmission
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nil
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Samari wrote:

as far as the flea, it is possible that it is Covenant, but it's definitely not an AI. the Princess told us that it was not very smart because it can't write it's name or read a book. I think it could just as well be another subroutine as it does bear some resemblence to SPDR. we do know that SP likes it about as much as it likes Melisa, so it's hard to say who is really on what side right now.


now this is what gets me at the moment: (WILD SPECulation, btw Wink )

Pious Flea can imitate SPDR (we know this as the Flea basically said "I am SPDR")

The only way we "know" that the entity communicating to us through the ladybee777 account is that this entity basically said to us "I am the Sleeping Princess" (it also said "dont worry about the Flea, hes stupid, so just forget about him")

Now, if the Flea can lie about being SPDR, why can't it lie about being the SP? (and misdirect us by fooling us into thinking that the Flea is a stupid process we shouldn't worry about) It's basically disproven the Princesses statement about it being stupid by fooling SPDR in the first place...

This would be a nasty trick for the PMs to pull, and maybe it's a little far fetched, but it worries me a bit nonetheless.

(BTW: nova - are you the nova from over at CA.ORG?)

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 10:23 pm
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Nova
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nil wrote:
(BTW: nova - are you the nova from over at CA.ORG?)


No, I'm not who you think I am. Smile

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 10:28 pm
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nil
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thinking about this further, if the Flea DIDNT imersonate the SP (or her communication method), isn't that a precedent for it NOT impersonating SPDR's communication method?

/me should really register an account here Smile



Nova wrote:

No, I'm not who you think I am. Smile

ah well, less distractions from cute girls is probably a good thing Wink

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 10:40 pm
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GunsmithCat
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Quote:

1. Creating a white-on-black warning message is one of SPDR's functions.
2. Flea can emulate SPDR's functions, but the text is still white-on-white.
3. Therefore, Flea has not created a white-on-black warning message.


Oh c'mon - you can't compound steps! Smile Plus yours doesn't even end with proving that it -can't- !



Quote:

But seriously, a better analogy would be, all three of us see the alien transform into a dog repeatedly over the course of several weeks. You then spot the alien-dog killing, oh, I don't know, let's say TheFriendlyTroll. You run in and tell us about it, and we think, "Better keep an eye on that alien. Maybe it's not as friendly as we thought." You, on the other hand, are still assuming that the alien could be one of us and want to shove us into the ice chest, even though we have not seen any previous evidence of the alien taking any other shapes. Sure, it's possible -- and in the movie you'd be right -- but I'm still looking for an indication that this is not just a possibility, but a probability.


Not true. We've seen Flea perform more than one of SPDR's functions. It's easier to assume that the Flea can perform ANY of those functions than to try and determine which ones it can't without evidence.

If we had repeatedly observed the Flea to only use "diag" for instance, there might be evidence that it's the only function it can perform. That's not what happened. It instantly transformed into the SPDR and was able to assume any of the tasks required to fool Melissa.

You forgot the important bit of the Alien analogy - I heard the dog bark. Meaning that I can't assume the alien is a one trick pony. We don't have a pattern of behavior to make those assumptions. We've seen the Flea transform, adapt and usurp. To say it can transorm, adapt, usurp ... but not do this one specific thing - that's going to require some more explanation.

Look, I'll agree. The PMs don't want to completely mess with us, but that even better explains why they would keep the Flea's text white while talking to Melissa, so that we can continue to distinguish it. But they've also given us other facts. The SPDR gets deleted at some point and the Flea takes it's place. You're telling me that with that evidence I'm still supposed to trust the SPDR's text 100%?

Because the PMs are nice? nuh-uh.

And I've given a reasonable theory as to why the Flea might gather these coordinates. Haven't heard any for SPDR yet...

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:30 pm
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krystyn
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SPDR was helping to repair the Queen. The coordinates may be locations of further resources to that end. Fireflies for her lantern.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:34 pm
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Knight Hawk
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This Spec is definitely on a very close track. But I think for us to fully understand the SPDR, like someone spec'ed before me, is to think of what the SPDR is.

Initial spec has guessed that the SPDR is the repair mechanism, that is made to repair the AI if it happens to be damaged. Someone in this thread is spec'ing that the SPDR is a tool responsible for enacting the Cole Protocol. I think that is more accurate than spec in previous threads. Melissa keeps remarking on how she cannot recall certain things or events, if the SPDR was repairing those memories, that may be vital to earth's protection, then the SPDR is probably made more to destroy Melissa's memories of earth's location more than it is made to repair her. I think we need to spec more on what System Peril Distribution Reflex means by simple analysis of diction.

I think that the SPDR is not just an anagram made so that the spider reference can be used, I think the names meaning is full out explaining what the SPDR is respsonsible for. When the System (Melissa) is in Peril (the covenant threat that was responsible for Melissa's ship crashing in the first place) the Reflex of the SPDR is to Distribute data where the System who is in danger of being captured cannot find it. Or to re-distribute the data to the viruses that are to infect the System in Peril of being captured to erase all data without the possibility of recovery. The SPDR might be a Cole Protocol virus. Sorry for the length of this post, don't have time to pay much attention to the boards since I am currently on vacation. But spec on my fellow gamers.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:52 pm
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krystyn
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So, it would follow that the coordinates are somehow part of the distribution?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:54 pm
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Nova
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krystyn wrote:
So, it would follow that the coordinates are somehow part of the distribution?


Perhaps. It could be that part of the SPDR's "reflex" is to distribute the information that the system is in peril - ie, broadcast a mayday message far and wide. That could be the beginnings of an explanation for the GPS coordinates.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:08 am
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Astald
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I thought the SPDR already set of an alarm. Melissa spoke of it in her monologue:

Quote:
Just in over her head? No. The Spider warning's been deployed. She had every warning that a classified medium was under repair.


PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:36 am
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wargod22
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But if the SPDR is trying to enact the Cole Protocole, then why would it be trying to repair Melissa? Wouldn't SPDR want to erase and destroy Melissa instead in order so that the Covenent wouldnt' be able to cature and use her?

Is does the Cole Protocole only erase Earth's coordinates, or all information? Melissa seems to indicate that SDPR was repairing her, at the cost of her memories. I'm not sure that we know specifically what SDPR is exactly suppose to do.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:40 am
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JimmyJames
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Going back to the subject of a virus, could it be that a virus was contained in the package that delivered the rest of the cast? If so, the virus program was most likely already intertwined in the code upon corruption. The SPDR, not being intelligent enough to discern the virus from the rest of the code, repaired it as well (at least mostly repaired it). The Virus then hijacked/infected the "dumbest" program avaialable, the Flea, as it was unable to identify the virus as a threat.

This would explain the information regarding the virus, the sudden increase in the Flea's abilities, and the Flea's contempt for the SPDR (as the SPDR would have identified the viral corruption of the Flea's programming as well as any attempts it makes to infect other programs).

If the virus is a Covenant, or "dumb", AI, it might/should have the ability to repair itself and/or increase it's knowledge base once it has reached a certain level of wholeness/consciousness.

Also, I had initially thought the Flea was a Trojan, but now I am thinking it may just be a shell, which contained all the support and data for the Melissa program.

However, while this may explain some of the backstory, it doesn't touch on the intent of the malevolent force at work here, which is really the big puzzle.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:49 am
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GunsmithCat
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krystyn wrote:
SPDR was helping to repair the Queen. The coordinates may be locations of further resources to that end. Fireflies for her lantern.


OK, I'll bite - it's plausible. It feels like a hail mary to me though. Everything SPDR does to repair Melissa to this point reads a lot more like decompressing a packed file rather than roaming a wide network in search of things. It seems odd that SPDR would suddenly have to run off to Florida to get Melissa's memories.

Quote:
So, it would follow that the coordinates are somehow part of the distribution?


That seems more likely, as it fits in with the known story element of metastasizing. Now mostly repaired, Melissa begins to branch out. SPDR is just clearing a path ahead.

Problem I have with this theory is that there's doesn't seem to be any connection between the GPS coordinates and computer connectivity.

Quote:
But if the SPDR is trying to enact the Cole Protocole, then why would it be trying to repair Melissa? Wouldn't SPDR want to erase and destroy Melissa instead in order so that the Covenent wouldnt' be able to cature and use her?


I agree, but I also think SPDR would do what Melissa wanted. So I think prior the shipwreck, Flea messed with her head. My spec is that it managed to reverse the Cole protocol.

JimmyJames wrote:
If the virus is a Covenant, or "dumb", AI


We should remember that if the Flea is Covenant, it doesn't necessarily follow the same rules as Human AIs. It might not be either "smart" or "dumb".


And so far, nobody's offered an explanation as to why SPDR would rename his previous countdown.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:34 am
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Dorkmaster
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First consistently good thread I've seen in a while. Yes, we're being quite specific, but at least it's in a logical way! Yay!

Ok. I think Shad0 said it well, that the PMs want us to solve these puzzles, so they wouldn't necessarily make a decision only to confuse us. If the flea has used white-on-white text even when emulating SPDR's function, then we would hope that the PMs were not malevolent themselves (Microsoft? Malevolent? ... ... -Nah!) and would not intentionally confuse us with characters changing their "voices". It's possible, don't get me wrong, but not as likely, IMO. We may continually differ in that regard, however, and that's fine. I'm sure next update it will be sparkling clear anyway...

But I also see your point, GunsmithCat, that we have no proof that the flea cannot imitate SPDR's voice. So it's a coin flip.

However, I will spec on this: (and I will preface by saying I haven't been able to check the Wiki yet today, so forgive me if this is spec'd to all getout already)

I think prevailing theory is that the flea would make a lot of sense as Covenant tech. I also agree that the flea is not probably a smart, fully formed AI. It's definitely an autonomous program of some sort, but it's not an AI, since we have had no evidence that it's done anything but really mimic (no real original monologues or anything), and it's been described by the Princess as not able to read a book. So, let's assume it's some sort of Covenant (or otherwise malevolent) program? What is it trying to reveal? What is it trying to find about the Truth? Are we supposed to see Truth as a ship/vessel? Anyway, I know all of these theories are around, but what can we do with them together?

Anyway, my focus today will be remaining on the GPS puzzle... I think that's key to the next step, and I don't think we need to wait to figure out what that's about. I think we need to come together to figure it out... maybe Wink ...
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:37 am
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GunsmithCat
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Dorkmaster wrote:

I think prevailing theory is that the flea would make a lot of sense as Covenant tech. I also agree that the flea is not probably a smart, fully formed AI.


Yeah, I think it seems a safe assumption, given what we know of the story. I'm leaning to calling Flea "clever". It's smarter than SPDR was, but it's not a full-form personality like Melissa.

Quote:
What is it trying to reveal? What is it trying to find about the Truth? Are we supposed to see Truth as a ship/vessel? Anyway, I know all of these theories are around, but what can we do with them together?


I mentioned this somewhere - but Covenant really only care about two things ... exterminated heretics (ie, us) and finding Forerunner artifacts (and not necessarily in that order).

So if Flea has a mission, I'd say it's either:

1. Find Earth so that the Covenant can eradicate us (it would clearly be a crushing blow, considering how protected we've tried to make it)
2. Find Forerunner artifacts
3. Both

But if we poke our head out of the Haloverse, we're left with these questions:

1. What was/is the Apocalypse?
2. What is the Truth? (ah, Bungie, how you love to meddle with the little stuff huh)

PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:49 am
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