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VQ.Wavecrest
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Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 124
Location: Philadelphia, PA

I call dibs on second copy!

So if finances hadn't been such an issue, would the game have continued? Or was it always going to be a "one-year" game?

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:42 pm
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albrackin
Boot

Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 15
Location: Dallas

ThusQED wrote:
Queries:
1.) Is it possible for accounting information to be available. I'm kind of interested in how much it cost and how much money you made from those google ads. I doubt the google ads actually paid for the sites themselves but I'm curious how much money they made. (I admit I clicked on one of those ads every once in a while as a sort of "donate to DC" thing).


And a big shout out to my brother-in-law (aka "Dr. vishnu") who clicked on them enough times to get us banned in early January! The budget was, um... non-existant other than the misappropriated student loans I... um... nevermind.

ThusQED wrote:
2.) What did you make of my character anyway? I hope I didn't bug you guys too much with the time-travel business. I guess I was attempting to start a potential group that played off both sides to make sure the time-stream didn't go paradoxically crazy.


Actually the "middle of the road" guys were some of the most fun for me.

ThusQED wrote:
3.) And the self-serving question... is there any chance of one becoming a part of any future team project that you're working on?


Well you wouldn't be the first!

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:25 am
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WolfHawk
Entrenched


Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 1247
Location: St. Louis

albrackin wrote:
WolfHawk wrote:
1. Was there something I was supposed to do that I didn't catch? Igot several cryptic messages that sounded like I was supposed to "get" something, but, being rather dense, I didn't.


Without an example I'm not sure, but likely you are referring to Theophilus's cryptic fortune cookie-like messages which steered so many into self-fulfilling prophecies... stuff like "I know you... the time is near... move forward with your plan." and whatnot. That was fun. (Dance puppets, dance!)

Yep, That's exactly what I meant along with an odd messge or two from Tara.

albrackin wrote:
WolfHawk wrote:
2. Did Violet Nightshade ever contact you about why she just disappeared? Her story line was pretty good.


HIS dissappearance is a mystery to us too - but its worth noting that he's the one person who found us OOG and called us up.

Huh, somewhere along the line I got the impression he was a she. Heh, called you in real-time. I'll bet THAT was a surprise! Laughing

albrackin wrote:
WolfHawk wrote:
3. I suppose we all want to know if we made it to the future or not. (Of course if I'm in my hidden bunker with taurean and the others then DC may not kow if I made it!)


Guess that depends on if you think the future can be changed.

GAAAHH - THEO! Shocked Well at least you survived! Laughing

albrackin wrote:
WolfHawk wrote:
4. Not really DC related, but Adam, how'd you find me in Facebook???!!!


Time communication.

Guess I should've expected this answer! Rolling Eyes
_________________
Having abandoned my search for the truth I am now looking for a good fantasy.

The light at the end of the tunnel may be the headlight of an oncoming train.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:25 am
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albrackin
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Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 15
Location: Dallas

VQ.Wavecrest wrote:
I call dibs on second copy!

So if finances hadn't been such an issue, would the game have continued? Or was it always going to be a "one-year" game?


I would have needed this OOG conversation and the great emails you have been sending me @ albrackin(splat)gmail.com (KEEP THEM COMING!!) for my research at this time NO MATTER WHAT - though I could have done it IG as a research email from DCorp etc... which I still may do - for those of you NOT reading this because you left the game for one reason or another... P-Piper, KGBram, VN, and the rest of you! (snif!)

ON A SIDE NOTE... great spontaneous convo on the IRC last night, lets do it all again!

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:37 am
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taureanfreak
Decorated


Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 188

Sadly, I kinda wish you would have jumped on one time under an alias. There was a great conversation a couple of months back that revolved around ordering pizza. I don't know how possible it is, but it would be great if we could all get together somewhere. It'd be interesting to interact with everyone face to face. Oh, the hilarity that would ensue!!!

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:32 am
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albrackin
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Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 15
Location: Dallas

taureanfreak wrote:
Sadly, I kinda wish you would have jumped on one time under an alias. There was a great conversation a couple of months back that revolved around ordering pizza. I don't know how possible it is, but it would be great if we could all get together somewhere. It'd be interesting to interact with everyone face to face. Oh, the hilarity that would ensue!!!


Joining the chat and UF under a fake name! That would be dishonest and against the TOS! We would never do such a thing!

Now, OOG spies on the other hand... (Good thing you guys don't log IPs... um, yea.)

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:32 am
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TGI Fridays
Veteran


Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 123

1) What was your favorite aspect of DC? Explain.

As many have already mentioned, player and pm interaction was the main highlight of the game. I was greatly impressed by the level of effort put into the design of the 'interface'. ARGs rarely go beyond message boards or chat interaction – a log-in page, the ads, credits, etc. helped add to the immersive experience. Although I never had the pleasure of taking part in a folio hunt, the real world connections in the game helped blur the line between reality and the ARG.

The competitive nature of the game was also a wonderful concept. Karma and credits should have been exploited more, but it was a great start.

Perhaps the best part for me was playing multiple characters. I'm sure pms must have a better time with this than me, but I really enjoyed being able to be a schizophrenic. Asserting different aspects of my personality through different characters is kind of liberating.


2) What was your least favorite aspect of DC? Explain.

We've all commented on interaction, no need to beat and torture a poor suffering horse. Other than that, clarity of purpose was missing sometimes. A tv show can have a few "filler" episodes with no plot progression, but if the show becomes filler episodes it's on it's way to cancellation. Apply comparison as needed…

The only other flaw – I had no idea if bringing more players in was a good idea. I didn't want to try to encourage participation if the game was going to end, but if it was going to continue I wanted to try to get as many involved as possible.

3) What would you like to see change in a future similar project?

More competition. More player control over direction. Cookies sent in the mail?

4) Did DC push the current boundaries of ARG/CF? Explain.

Sure. See "favorite aspect" – generally these aspects are unique to DC.

5) Was the "one year time line" successful? (11-11-06 to 11-11-07)

Only been involved for 5 months, so can't really answer.

6) How did you find out about DC? (specify IG/OOG and/or trailhead)

Another player – it's a shame, but can't remember who…

7) How does DC's structure compare to the commonly accepted 4orty 2wo entertainment model of player interaction? http://www.42entertainment.com/see_images/triangle.jpg

I really think 'level 2' was missing. There seemed to be many casual players that drifted in and out and then a group of core level three players.

Cool How does your interaction compare to the 4orty 2wo entertainment model of player interaction?

As with most people responding to this survey, I was most likely a level 3, although my interaction was limited to a small number of players and it tended to decline over time.


9) What do you see as the future of ARG/CF?

More engrossing, more immersive, more competitive. It's only a matter of time before mmorpgs and args merge.


10) Would you play/avoid a "grass-roots" low budget ARG/CF (such as DC) versus a big-budget "Commercial" ARG/CF?

grassroots all the way. Save my husband gave me $4.11, but turned me off of applebee's for life. Product placement should be limited in ARGs to imaginary products. Smile

11) Rank the following "ARG/CF elements" from most to least important: Design (website, graphics, pics), Story (writing), Puzzles (tasks), Player Interaction (forums, IM, etc), Real-world elements (non-internet), Videos (acting, sets, youtube, etc), Other (specify)

Interaction
Design
Real-world elements
Story
Videos

12) In what ways was DC "broken" or a "failure"?

non-interaction.



Questions -

1. My girlfriend yelled at me numerous times for wasting time on an imaginary game (I can't help but sympathize with her as I tend to dive in to anything I find interesting), how did you guys manage to find ladies tolerant of your careers/hobbies? How do you balance the time you devote to the ARG with the time you have to devote to the rest of your life?

2. Religion is obviously an important part of many of your lives. How have your experiences with your faiths shaped the game? Religion seemed to come out as a villain in the end – was this because it was a "corruption" of the faiths, because it was simply duped, what do you think it says about your feelings towards God to choose to represent religion the way you did?

3. Don't suppose we could ever get a look behind deuscity.com/stats? I'm curious to see what the backend observation room looked like.

4. Were there any plans to develop the holyfaithunited web page or defensecorp page? If so, what was going to be there?

Anyway, great game guys. You've got something here. I hope you keep going with it.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:46 pm
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cfreak
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Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Posts: 11

Wow! First of all, great questions!

TGI Fridays wrote:

1. My girlfriend yelled at me numerous times for wasting time on an imaginary game (I can't help but sympathize with her as I tend to dive in to anything I find interesting), how did you guys manage to find ladies tolerant of your careers/hobbies? How do you balance the time you devote to the ARG with the time you have to devote to the rest of your life?


Two questions wrapped in one huh? Smile ... for the first part: probably going to sound cliche but I think the process of finding someone tolerant of one's nerdiness is a process rather than just bumping into each other one day. My wife and I were friends for a long time before we ever dated. She was a fun person to watch Star-Trek and action movies with and darn good at Age of Empires as well (the game of choice in the computer lab of the college we attended). It took me three years to figure out that maybe that's the kind of person I'd like to spend the rest of my days with. The rest is history Smile

As for balancing time ... its hard. Adam and I both hyper-focus on stuff that interests us. We also have about a million ideas and we're always involved in something (this isn't the first project we've done together). In the case of DC, too many other things have come up in life unfortunately. For me DC had to take a back-seat to the family when we had our baby.

Quote:
2. Religion is obviously an important part of many of your lives. How have your experiences with your faiths shaped the game? Religion seemed to come out as a villain in the end – was this because it was a "corruption" of the faiths, because it was simply duped, what do you think it says about your feelings towards God to choose to represent religion the way you did?


Well, I didn't have much to do with the writing so Adam may have had a different intent but here's the way I see it. Also I apologize up-front, this is going to be a long answer ...

Just to give you some background: Adam and I both are children of Baptist missionaries. I lived in East Africa, he lived in the Philippines and in Central America. Unlike a lot of missionary families who stay their entire lives, both of our families brought us back to the States when we were still in our early teens. I think this gave us both a unique perspective. A lot of people who spend their entire teenage years in a foreign country grow up hating America, while we were still young enough to see the problems in the country but not write off our home-land entirely.

I think Christianity (and probably most religions) in America is corrupt. Not to say that there are people who truly practice what they preach but sadly the majority is fake. In the rural areas it seems most churches are preaching intolerance, not just for things that think are immoral, but intolerance for people they disagree with. In the cities it seems its all about making sure people don't feel guilty when they don't actually give to charity, don't actually care for widows, don't actually spend their time on anything other than themselves. In both cases, it seem seems that the church focuses on raging against horrible ills ... like science in class rooms and teh gays, women's rights, stupid fighting with each other and really stuff that doesn't matter and misses the point of what their stated mission is.

Deus City (the place) didn't come about so much as the result of time-communication or a because of the actions of any single person it came about because of the failing of faith. The confusion caused by the removal of time communication is an excuse for everyone to fight for their own ideology. Any true faith had to go underground, and men with power created their own society born out of greed. HFU takes the last remnants of religion and merges them together. Officially sanctioned, its only an extension of the greed that created DC in the first place.

Will we be to that point in 30 years? Doubtful. But sadly, if something doesn't change ... it could happen eventually.

All that said, my personal feeling toward God is very different from my view of religion. A relationship with God is completely opposite of following a rigid set of rules. True faith leads to true action .. helping the poor, giving of time and resources, genuinely caring for people no matter what they believe or do. God didn't say love people we like, he said love everyone. BTW ... I certainly don't always measure up to that goal. I do try.

I don't think representing religion as failed is something that God frowns on Smile.

Quote:
3. Don't suppose we could ever get a look behind deuscity.com/stats? I'm curious to see what the backend observation room looked like.


I'll make a mental note to make sure that you guys can't find our hidden URLs so easily Very Happy. My guess is that official stats will be released as a part of Adam's PhD work. I can give you a few numbers. Total we had somewhere around 1000 individuals who at least created an account. That's an estimate based on the number of created accounts and how many people we believe had multiple accounts. We have averaged about 6500 visitors a month. Not huge of course but somewhat respectable Smile

Quote:
4. Were there any plans to develop the holyfaithunited web page or defensecorp page? If so, what was going to be there?


Originally we were going to have multiple sites but later decided that with the current explanation of the technology that multiple sites would imply multiple interfaces. Multiple interfaces didn't make much sense given our totalitarian style government. We actually had more domains than that at one point, I don't even remember now what all we had. We may use them in a future project.

Quote:
Anyway, great game guys. You've got something here. I hope you keep going with it.


Thanks!

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:19 am
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albrackin
Boot

Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 15
Location: Dallas

TGI Fridays wrote:
1. My girlfriend yelled at me numerous times for wasting time on an imaginary game (I can't help but sympathize with her as I tend to dive in to anything I find interesting), how did you guys manage to find ladies tolerant of your careers/hobbies? How do you balance the time you devote to the ARG with the time you have to devote to the rest of your life?


What is this "life" of which you speak? Seriously though, Our wives are awesome. Chris and I went to a small private college and we met them there. The term "equally yoked" means a lot to both of us. On the other side of that coin, one of the reasons why things were delayed or didn't happen at all is because we made some hard decisions to put family first. Chris has a new baby. I own a school. I admit, DC was put on the back burner a few times... something that more initial capital would have "fixed" but which would have meant that we were working for "the man". Coincidentally we talked to some VC, but they kept asking "can you do this in second life?"... uhhnnn-nooooo....

TGI Fridays wrote:
2. Religion is obviously an important part of many of your lives. How have your experiences with your faiths shaped the game? Religion seemed to come out as a villain in the end – was this because it was a "corruption" of the faiths, because it was simply duped, what do you think it says about your feelings towards God to choose to represent religion the way you did?


GREAT QUESTION!! Without getting too deeply into it, (I second everything chris said) I'm a preacher's kid and a missionary kid for reals. My dad is an amazing man of god and I love and admire him to no end. Many of us PMs do have strong faiths and I'd be happy to tell you about how MY relationship with christ has guided me through life, but that's not fiction, its autobiographical - and I'm a fiction writer for the most part - one who is a christian... but not a "christian author" necessarily. There's a difference I promise. (For one Kropp wouldn't swear as much.) Not sure if it matters, but my contemporary influences have been Stephen Lawhead (christian), Douglas Adams (athiest), and strangely enough that hack Michael Crichton (athiest).

To answer the question: RELIGION GETS IN THE WAY OF FAITH. I'm a southern baptist, and like so many organized religions through history we're having internal problems that are financial, social, structural and downright - unchristian! This is because of small men with big egos who fail to see past their own little world to the wide one beyond. This hurts the kingdom. I feel strongly about this. That said DC was intended to be a world in which there was no "good" organization to support. I kicked up the contrast on "good and evil" to the point where they were pretty much indistinguishable... (Dare I quote Anakin Skywalker here? Naw...) but the point is that "D-corp" was the evil dictatorial Orwellian fascist empire let by the evil mastermind fu-mo, and the "underground" was the evil anarchical terrorist organization led by the religious "nut-job" Theo, who fortunately wasn't my counterpart after all (whew!) but some equally insane religious nut-job. The only "right" answer was to make it never happen, which you guys did... at least we hope so!

TGI Fridays wrote:
3. Don't suppose we could ever get a look behind deuscity.com/stats? I'm curious to see what the backend observation room looked like.


Those detailed stats will be published in my dissertation, in pretty charts and graphs which I will be releasing in about April/May. Perhaps when I first get it together next month I'll throw 'em up for ya.

TGI Fridays wrote:
4. Were there any plans to develop the holyfaithunited web page or defensecorp page? If so, what was going to be there?


Yea, but the amount of time it would have taken to fully develop those pages would not have had enough pay off to make it worth while... especially since they were going to be the 2007 "first start" pages for those organizations and only setting flavor for the story. We also had deuscitybank.com which would have been fun, but sort of pointless.

TGI Fridays wrote:
Anyway, great game guys. You've got something here. I hope you keep going with it.


Thanks. We aren't done yet... but let me bang out that Dissertation OK?

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:00 pm
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TGI Fridays
Veteran


Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 123

Thanks for taking the time to answer all my questions, it's nice to learn a little about the planning/ideology behind dc. Should you guys ever need help from yet another US Baptist raised in a missionary community abroad (aboriginal Australia) count me in... Smile

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:20 pm
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albrackin
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Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 15
Location: Dallas

 Dr. Brackin's PhD Dissertation
(c) 2008 Adam L. Brackin, UTD Press

Well you asked for it - so here it is... my dissertation has been approved for printing at UTD press and all the paperwork is signed. I defended it on 4/7/08, and passed - making me Dr. Brackin now.

Part I is a discussion on the Genre
Part II is a discussion of the Dev. of DC
Part III is spec. on the future of ARG
Appendices A, B, C, & D are various resources including a glossary of ARG terms, Index of significant games, Summary of the DC plot...

...and because it isn't anywhere else - the END-GAME NOVELLA "Deus Ex Machina: An N. Sawyer Mystery" for your reading enjoyment.

Thanks everybody. I mean it. I hope you get out of it something that will help you and everyone else with an academic interest in this crazy CF community we all love so much.

Laters!
-Dr. AB

P.S. BIG PDF FILE - YOU MAY NOT WANT TO LOAD IT IN YOUR BROWSER!
Brackin Tracking the Emergent Properties of the Collaborative Online Story Deus City for Testing the Standard.pdf
Description  WARNING - BIG PDF FILE (2.05 MB) - May crash sissy browsers if you load internally or have a computer from 1998.
pdf

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:48 pm
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KGBrAm
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Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Posts: 100
Location: Montreal, Canada

Gratz on successfully completing DC and BIG gratz on your 'Dr.' status!
_________________
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:00 pm
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