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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): Puzzles
[META] It's all so hopeless!!!
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Clipped_Wings
Boot

Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 39
Location: Rugby, England

 		[META] It's all so hopeless!!!
Just a thought, but has any of the puzzle solving so far actually lead to any advancing information (e.g. url or password).

I think so far we've just gained more information, without any use for it, maybe that's more what the ILB thing is.

For example, maybe the reason for the GPS co-ordinates is that they span over America, which was the queen searching for the Killer.

Maybe it's more information, rather than a puzzle to be solved, any thoughts on this?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:04 pm
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Grout
Veteran

Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 105

 		Yep, we all know this in the back of our minds, but some of the stupider beekeepers (read: me) cling on to some foolish hope that this is actually a puzzle and this thing is actually turning into a real ARG. Have pity on us.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:07 pm
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floorneyne
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Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 89

 		Yeah, but why would the PM's have put this thing in the hands of ARG players if there weren't real puzzles? I mean, they did mail the honey before the Halo connections were even established. If they did this without even having real puzzles to solve beyond organizing information, that would just be cruel. CRUUUUUUEL!
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:11 pm
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Grout
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Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 105

 		Well after this coordinate malarky, cruelty is not something I would put past them...

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:12 pm
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Clipped_Wings
Boot

Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 39
Location: Rugby, England

 		Have there been any solvable puzzles so far though?

No

We've just released information to the Halo 2 fans that makes them salivate, people like forbidden knowledge.

And it's made a lot of publicity too.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:12 pm
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Grout
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Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 105

 		The way I'm looking at it - The coordinate thing is my last attempt. If the 24th rolls around and this doesn't turn into something bigger and more game like - I'm gone.

I guess when I saw "microsoft" I was too quick to jump to the conclusion: "Beast 2" Crying or Very sad

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:21 pm
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sfsdfd
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Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 112

 		Re: [META] It's all so hopeless!!!
Clipped_Wings wrote:
Just a thought, but has any of the puzzle solving so far actually lead to any advancing information (e.g. url or password).

I think so far we've just gained more information, without any use for it, maybe that's more what the ILB thing is.

You know, a puzzle doesn't have to mean a textbox, or interactive widget. We did have more of those in AI - Eliza, of course, and probably eight password/passphrase requirements. But most of the AI puzzles involved extricating hidden information - from website code, from pictures, from cyphertext.

Also, keep in mind that this game is still in the ramping-up stage. The AI game was going full-bore from May through much of July - but before then came March and April, which had smaller updates. It really took the story a while to build, and I'm hopeful that this one will be the same. By Halloween, I hope we're hip-deep in rampant AI goodness.

Now, I agree that this game has been noticeably smaller to date: fewer sites, fewer neato widgets. I think that we just have to deal with it. It doesn't have to be as large or grand as the AI game, because it's not the AI game.

The important things - the reasons I kept coming back to AI - were the neat/creepy atmosphere, the compelling story, and the fiendish puzzles. Well, they're all here, too. The atmosphere is well fleshed out; the story is growing nicely; and we've been puzzling over these damn coordinates for days, with no substantial leads. Sure, it could be bigger. That will always be true.

In summary, give it a chance to blossom - it's still early.

- David Stein

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:39 pm
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fivecentfamily
Boot

Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 33
Location: Glendale, AZ

 		Re: [META] It's all so hopeless!!!
Clipped_Wings wrote:
Maybe it's more information, rather than a puzzle to be solved, any thoughts on this?


Hmmmm..... or, MAYBE these PMs are trying something new, and we just aren't caught up to speed with them.

Traditional ARGs are part story/part puzzle. Now in the best ARGs the puzzles are story driven, or story-related in some way, even though suspension of disbelief is usually required to understand WHY the puzzle is there sometimes. Even in The Beast, there were puzzles that had little if anything to do with the story, they just were 'because it's a game'. And it can't be a game without puzzles, right?

Well, maybe not.

Maybe these PMs want to tell a story, by using the traditional ARG story format, but WITHOUT the heavy puzzle element. There have been things to figure out, but they haven't been straightforward puzzles. Even the Link Puzzle was born out of a story event, and fit perfectly into the plot and spirit of the story.

Maybe we are trying to find a puzzle where there isn't supposed to be one. I'm sure these locations (or new locations) will have some significance in the story down the road, but for now, they are just a piece, a hint, a foreshadowing of the next phase of the story.

It's just us impatient ARGers who are dying for a meaty puzzle that won't quit trying to "find the key" to what is essentially a plot device.
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You hear a strange buzzing in your head ... "Hey, you fell asleep at the computer ..... AGAIN!"

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:44 pm
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Shad0
I Have No Life


Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Posts: 2180
Location: Southern California, USA

 		Re: [META] It's all so hopeless!!!
Clipped_Wings wrote:
Have there been any solvable puzzles so far though?

No

*cough*21links*cough*
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These were the puzzles that would take a day, these were puzzles that would take a week, and these puzzles they'd probably never figure out until we broke down and gave them the answers. ... The Cloudmakers solved all of these puzzles on the first day.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 5:14 pm
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sfsdfd
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Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 112

 		Re: [META] It's all so hopeless!!!
Shad0 wrote:
Clipped_Wings wrote:
Have there been any solvable puzzles so far though?

No

*cough*21links*cough*

And also heavy doses of steganography (obvious, but a puzzle nonetheless); and piecing together the order of bits of conversation spewed across many webpages; and URL parsing for additional data (the Dana webcam photos); and, of course, figuring out all the blasted code (net attach | drop).

Yeah, there have been a lot of puzzles. The original poster is using the term "puzzle" to describe only interactive processes - which, as I mentioned above, is only one way that these games tend to play out.

- David Stein

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:09 pm
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babbler
Boot

Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 48

 		Re: [META] It's all so hopeless!!!
fivecentfamily wrote:
Even in The Beast, there were puzzles that had little if anything to do with the story, they just were 'because it's a game'. And it can't be a game without puzzles, right?


This, of course, leads us to wonder: is a puzzle going to make narrative sense, or is the puzzle simply there to be a puzzle?

Adventure games have struggled with this design question pretty much since the genre began, and they too often succumb to the "just toss another puzzle in the mix" impulse.

For our purposes, it's obviously going to make a significant difference. If it's a puzzle-for-puzzles'-sake, then the data could be anything; we could find that the coordinates match to text coded by a polyalphabetic cipher or some such. On the other hand, if the nature of the puzzle has to fit into the narrative structure, then we can rule out certain possibilities, but have to be perhaps more creative in figuring out what we're looking for.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:21 pm
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Clipped_Wings
Boot

Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 39
Location: Rugby, England

 		I guess it's because I used to do "Treasure Hunts" with my dad when I was little, e.g. Masquerade, The Cadbury's Creme Egg Hunt, The Spirit in the Stones. He even won one, and got a letter from steve jackson to that effect.

Anyway, aside from the information revealing, maybe we are just here to reveal information and to drum up hype, maybe the PMs watching these forums are looking at all our solutions to the GPS puzzle and laughing their heads off at our attempt to solve the random info they put on the site.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:13 pm
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Ben_Dover
Boot

Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 35
Quote:
Anyway, aside from the information revealing, maybe we are just here to reveal information and to drum up hype, maybe the PMs watching these forums are looking at all our solutions to the GPS puzzle and laughing their heads off at our attempt to solve the random info they put on the site.


I am VERY excited about the forthcoming release of Halo 2 (currently have it pre-ordered), but if it turns out that this is in fact what the PMs are doing I most definitely will NOT be purchasing that game when it is released and I would encourage all others to do the same.

It's one thing to try and drum up hype for your product. It's totally something altogether to manipulate consumers in such a flippant and disrespectful manner.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:29 pm
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Clipped_Wings
Boot

Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 39
Location: Rugby, England

 		Maybe they're just humouring us, and what was going to be pure info will have to turn into puzzles to satisfy the ARGers.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:32 pm
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firefox
Unfettered

Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 333

 		voice of reason: this is a game of patience.

i hope the real game, is full blown by wide awake and physical. The only reason (ihope) details were publicly released so early was to drum up more interest, and in my hearts of hearts i can only believe that the arg will begin in earnest on the 24th.

clues to point to this: yes so far there have been little to no actual puzzles, or confirmation of one being solved. we have only received bits of the story, and information on different characters.
but whining about it wont help Rolling Eyes
i believe we would all agree that the influx of new people has been 'Woah' with wat a double of membership for this site alone? and all these new people (me included lol) want a game to play.

i reccomend you guys just take it easy for a while. re-read the story, play around with the co-ordinates, maybe there's something weve missed.

but wait. i seriously doubt this is a cruel prank, or publicity hype. its a game, an arg. so enjoy it Razz

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:43 pm
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