Author
Message
Oriza
Entrenched
Joined: 21 Dec 2007 Posts: 1078 Location: Michigan and Florida
[META] Theo's Goals and Ethics Who are we to judge? Personally, I don't understand why Ariadne and co. are so angry at Markus for joining (?) TheO.
Perhaps they'll brand me as un-Thumos, too, but aside from the enormous amount of secrecy they seem to enjoy, I don't see why TheO is so bad. Their goals are noble-- perhaps we can find a way to cooperate, and use our combined strengths to find a way to save all the worlds, instead of just this one.
I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on this.
_________________"You want weapons? We're in a library! Books! The best weapons in the world! This room's the greatest arsenal we could have. Here-- arm yourself."
--Doctor Who, Tooth and Claw
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:37 pm
Cineball
Decorated
Joined: 09 Apr 2008 Posts: 181 Location: SF
That's the thing, Theo doesn't want to save this world. They want to sacrifice this world for the safety of other worlds. They aren't going about the same task, they are counter to "our" goals. They want to sacrifice an entire world of people because they feel it is more ethical.
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:15 pm
Khaos
Decorated
Joined: 04 May 2008 Posts: 287 Location: France
Well, it's certainly more ethical to destroy this world than to destroy the whole universe.
So, all in all, IF (and that's a big "if") Theo got the theory right about the multiverse then they definitly are on the good guy path.
_________________"I'm getting kidnapped tonight by players!" - James
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:17 am
bryanflurry
Unfettered
Joined: 02 Aug 2007 Posts: 477 Location: Mississauga, Canada
It's the sacrificing part that I don't like about TheO.
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:58 am
Khaos
Decorated
Joined: 04 May 2008 Posts: 287 Location: France
bryanflurry wrote:
It's the sacrificing part that I don't like about TheO.
So (and again with the big IF that their theory is right), you prefer that someone else sacrifize for you ?
Sure, the best answer is not sacrifizing at all and saving the multiverse in the same time but Theo deeply thinks you can't have both. Either you let everything goes big bang or you sacrifize someone (and in that case that someone could obviously be no one else than you, or you would be a very very bad guy)
_________________"I'm getting kidnapped tonight by players!" - James
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:17 am
bryanflurry
Unfettered
Joined: 02 Aug 2007 Posts: 477 Location: Mississauga, Canada
Yes, I'd prefer not sacrificing anyone at all. I'm sure there are other options, other ways to save the multiverse, they(TheO) have plenty of resources to research more into it, why only stop with that solution? It's like they are contented with that.
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:25 am
Khaos
Decorated
Joined: 04 May 2008 Posts: 287 Location: France
bryanflurry wrote:
Yes, I'd prefer not sacrificing anyone at all. I'm sure there are other options, other ways to save the multiverse, they(TheO) have plenty of resources to research more into it, why only stop with that solution? It's like they are contented with that.
That's what worry me the most, Theo did exist for longer than our agonothetai team still they didn't find another answer to the multiverse problem.
So does that mean that another solution doesn't exist ?
After all, the collapsing is a rule of the multiverse, it's like fighting gravity : you can't postpone it forever, it will happen someday.
_________________"I'm getting kidnapped tonight by players!" - James
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:29 am
bryanflurry
Unfettered
Joined: 02 Aug 2007 Posts: 477 Location: Mississauga, Canada
Khaos wrote:
...So does that mean that another solution doesn't exist ?...
Or they are lacking in the brain department? I think what were doing is the other solution versus the sacrificing solution. My speculation is that the past agonothetai team(*that were sent here) debated over this issue, and this is how TheO was born.
*eta
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:38 am
AUZ505
Unfictologist
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 1599 Location: Germany
Some very wild specuklations:
What IF (with a much bigger if) there is another big mysterious organisation that tries to keep the number of worlds limited and not reality itself. Perhaps this organisation just makes everone believe that all this has to happen, similar like the story in "Logan's Run".
Even the codex wrote, that nobody knows what happens if the limit is exceeded.
The nice thing with this speculation is: A mysterious organisations can be defeated, reality or nature not. I still hope there will be a solution without sacrifying any world.
_________________Playing:
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:45 am
Khaos
Decorated
Joined: 04 May 2008 Posts: 287 Location: France
bryanflurry wrote:
and this is how TheO was born.
Can't be sure of course, but Theo claims they were born much before the agonothetai arrived.
Wonder if the initial Theo members (in ancient time) were fighting for the same goal or if the ban of the greek olympics was just because of fear of the multiverse.
[META] Anyway, just as gravity is law of our reality, "Good guys win in the end" is a common law of alternate reality. So, "magicaly", we found in 6 months what an ancient worldly hidden organisation didn't find in thousand years because of their brains lacking [/META]
_________________"I'm getting kidnapped tonight by players!" - James
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:06 am
runeix ftlr
Decorated
Joined: 13 Apr 2008 Posts: 161 Location: Melbourne, Australia
sry kahos , but in real life (i mean not fiction books by this) the good guys seldom win
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:00 am
Khaos
Decorated
Joined: 04 May 2008 Posts: 287 Location: France
runeix ftlr wrote:
sry kahos , but in real life (i mean not fiction books by this) the good guys seldom win
That's why i said "alternate reality" (as in "A"RG).
And that's also why i'm mostly on Theo's side, because thinking we can save the whole multiverse without any sacrifizing seems too unrealistic and childish to be true.
By their very existence, Humans push reality to its limits (according to the codex, objects don't branch reality) and so humans must perpetualy fight against it to survive. And a fight against the whole multiverse laws should be hard, bloody and hopeless in the end.
But that's just my personnal view here, i'm not a senior member of Theo (Wish i was, Kentaro seems really cool to have as a team partner )
_________________"I'm getting kidnapped tonight by players!" - James
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:20 am
ariock
Has a Posse
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 762 Location: SF East Bay
1. watch the video with Kentaro again. If you think you can trust him to do what is best for the multiverse, fine. I don't.
2. we either take the Codex as true or we don't. I don't know where AUZ gets that the codex says no one knows what happens if we hit the upper limit of worlds. We do know.
We get rapid continental shift and cities sinking and death. That's what happens. ESPECIALLY the Gaia worlds. ESPECIALLY ESPECIALLY with Gaia worlds that are out of synch.
(chapter 13-1 "Rapid continental change therefore most likely happens when reality approaches the maximum number of contemporaneous worlds. And the default direction of change seems to be to the state of Neopangaea.")
(Chapter 13-2 "That's why its more and more important for pan-cosmologists to search out the worlds at risk, world which are becoming more and more dissimilar with respect to the many others, so that they can intervene and reduce the dissimilarity.")
However, the destruction of just our world is actually the BEST CASE SCENARIO.
(chapter 14 "The most often accepted theory is that passing the maximum limit of reality would bring about a type of elastic reaction in the opposite direction, maybe perhaps thus dropping everybody from the billions of worlds into a single world, where reality would start again from the beginning.
A new birth of the multiverse.
For 99.9 x 10^8 percent of the beings across the many worlds, this would be a somewhat tragic event.
...
Quick Continental Changes are preferable to the destruction of the entire multiverse, but cataclysmic spontaneous changes to the continental structure of the Earth are still very undesirable events for human beings.")
_________________"It says, 'Let's BEE friends'...and there's a picture of a bee!" -Ralph Wiggum
When the Apocalypse comes, it'll be in base64.
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:20 am
Khaos
Decorated
Joined: 04 May 2008 Posts: 287 Location: France
ariock wrote:
1. watch the video with Kentaro again. If you think you can trust him to do what is best for the multiverse, fine. I don't.
I don't find Kentaro trustfull, i just find him cool (As an old white-wolf vampire roleplayer, i don't mind when teammates try to fool me/kill me as i'll do the same if needed. So trust isn't required. But Coolness and/or Cleverness are major factors.)
But Kentaro isn't thousand years old and i'm pretty sure Theo, as a whole, knows much more than us about the multiverse. (That is, if we try to put some realistic assumption in a ARG)
If Theo (not Kentaro) deeply feels that sacrifizing is the way, it probably is. As this path involve the self-destruction of Theo (among all other people of our world), they surely would have searched another way for centuries before choosing this one.
The point is : we're doomed because our very nature oppose the multiverse limit.
So what should we do ? trying to live happily the rest of our, short, life span (aka "the six wants to go home and live with their loved family") or sacrifize ourselves to let others live longer (aka Theo) ?
_________________"I'm getting kidnapped tonight by players!" - James
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:54 am
ariock
Has a Posse
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 762 Location: SF East Bay
Khaos wrote:
ariock wrote:
1. watch the video with Kentaro again. If you think you can trust him to do what is best for the multiverse, fine. I don't.
I don't find Kentaro trustfull, i just find him cool (As an old white-wolf vampire roleplayer, i don't mind when teammates try to fool me/kill me as i'll do the same if needed. So trust isn't required. But Coolness and/or Cleverness are major factors.)
But Kentaro isn't thousand years old and i'm pretty sure Theo, as a whole, knows much more than us about the multiverse. (That is, if we try to put some realistic assumption in a ARG)
If Theo (not Kentaro) deeply feels that sacrifizing is the way, it probably is. As this path involve the self-destruction of Theo (among all other people of our world), they surely would have searched another way for centuries before choosing this one.
The point is : we're doomed because our very nature oppose the multiverse limit.
So what should we do ? trying to live happily the rest of our, short, life span (aka "the six wants to go home and live with their loved family") or sacrifize ourselves to let others live longer (aka Theo) ?
So you are discounting the entirety of the Codex based on one comment "We have a 1600-year advantage" from Theo to Ariadne. Seems like a lot of work for a bunch of red herrings.
Another point. ALL of the people that Theo has recruited have been ANGRY at the time of recruitment. They would have done anything to lash out at the other worlds. Giving them a sweet lie about this being a noble sacrifice that, oh by the way, helps them betray their old friends just makes the bitterness easier to swallow.
This isn't sacrifice. It's spite.
_________________"It says, 'Let's BEE friends'...and there's a picture of a bee!" -Ralph Wiggum
When the Apocalypse comes, it'll be in base64.
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:18 am
Display posts from previous: All Posts 1 Day 1 Week 2 Weeks 1 Month 3 Months 6 Months 1 Year Sort by: Post Time Post Subject Author Ascending Descending