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Finding Jenny
Moderators: Giskard, imbri, ndemeter
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Author Message
Rogi Ocnorb
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 4266
Location: Where the cheese is free.

My willingness to help was based on a recent, related experience in my life.

This past school year, my son's 7th grade English teacher was a lady who I knew in my childhood and, coincidentally, had my mother as her 7th grade English teacher. Our mothers taught at the same school and our families attended the same church. I hadn't talked to her, at all, in the intervening nearly 4 decades.

Just after the end of this school year, I got a large envelope in the mail with a "faculty" picture from 1970 for the school my mother taught at and a note:

"Is that your mom next to mine (3rd person in the 2nd row)? I have two of these pictures and thought of you."

So, now I have another picture of my mother, albeit kind of small, that I didn't know existed. Since she died a year after that picture was taken, when I was ten, I have very few pictures of her and am quite glad to have it.

I'm not encouraging any kind of deviant behavior, but thought I'd relay my experience because you never know what kind of coincidences and turns life can bring.
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I'm telling you now, so you can't say, "Oh, I didn't know...Nobody told me!"


PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:17 am
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Sassy
Unfettered


Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 510

Rogi Ocnorb wrote:
My willingness to help was based on a recent, related experience in my life....


That was beautiful and poignant...and ironically subliminally countered by the "find Madeline" URL in your avitar. Sheeesh. This really targets emotion, doesn't it?
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"Hey, who stopped payment on my reality check?"

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:56 am
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Rogi Ocnorb
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 4266
Location: Where the cheese is free.

Took me a while to get what you meant by "countered".

"Loss" is something I've always had a certain passion about. Whether it's genetic or related to losing my mother at an impressionable period in my life, I've always been kind of a packrat and feel sad about loss in general. People, items, knowledge, and especially, anything that can't be brought back once it's gone.

Having my car radio stolen is bad. Losing one of my kids would be devastating.
_________________
I'm telling you now, so you can't say, "Oh, I didn't know...Nobody told me!"


PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:31 am
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konamouse
Official uF Dietitian


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 8010
Location: My own alternate reality

I'm still not clear this is real or an ARG.
1. Posted in News & Rumors
2. Posted in the [url=http://flickr.com/photos/miguelhernandez/2697471865/in/pool-argARG Flickr[/url] group but he also started a separate group just for it.
3. Our poster is an artist, it seems. Check out his flickr.

So, again, the operative question. If this is a game, you should not be posting in here (after you announce your trailhead).
If it is real, then please ask a uF moderator to move this to Various & Sundry and then folks who are interested can continue to help you find this person (for whatever reason).

I would suggest starting with elementary or Jr High year books for the region in the 1970s. Most school libraries will have back issues. Good luck on that (you might come across as someone with altered reasons for seeking out pictures of children).
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'squeek'
r u a Sammeeeee? I am Forever!


PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:54 am
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ineffabelle
Unfettered


Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 700
Location: Southern California

Rogi Ocnorb wrote:
My willingness to help was based on a recent, related experience in my life.

This past school year, my son's 7th grade English teacher was a lady who I knew in my childhood and, coincidentally, had my mother as her 7th grade English teacher. Our mothers taught at the same school and our families attended the same church. I hadn't talked to her, at all, in the intervening nearly 4 decades.

Just after the end of this school year, I got a large envelope in the mail with a "faculty" picture from 1970 for the school my mother taught at and a note:

"Is that your mom next to mine (3rd person in the 2nd row)? I have two of these pictures and thought of you."

So, now I have another picture of my mother, albeit kind of small, that I didn't know existed. Since she died a year after that picture was taken, when I was ten, I have very few pictures of her and am quite glad to have it.

I'm not encouraging any kind of deviant behavior, but thought I'd relay my experience because you never know what kind of coincidences and turns life can bring.


I just wanted to chime and and point out that there is a HUGE difference between tracking down a person who you knew directly or indirectly to return a potentially meaningful photo and attempting to track down and contact a stranger that you inadvertently found a picture of.

If someone accidentally found a childhood photo of me in a book in goodwill and then posted it on line for the world to see and use to try to discover my identity, I would be EXTREMELY freaked out and concerned that someone was stalking me. (I'm not saying that you're a stalker... I just saying how I'd view it if that photo were of me.)

Also... you mentioned that you are a middle school teacher... but it appears you are (also?) an artist? Also... there is a possibility that this photo was only made to look old but the person could still be a minor. Even if everyone here at uF had no ill motives for finding her identity, ANYONE (ie pedophiles and the like) would have access to all the info we post about her identity and whereabouts.

Finally... I suggest that since there is no evidence this is an ARG that this post be moved or even possibly deleted for the sake of the safety and privacy of whoever that person in the photo is.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:47 pm
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phyzix
Decorated

Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 231
Location: Florida

Yes. I am an artist. I teach art, and I am an artist.

It surprises me that we are driven to this type of mentality. Our first reaction is to not trust someone and to think that the intentions are anything but good.

Her name/address/image, are all public record so we would not be revealing anything that she does not want to be revealed because it is already made public. We are merely working together to find a single person in the world.

Please reconsider your sense of my intentions and if you still want to help me find this person then by all means let's do this together.

konamouse wrote:
I'm still not clear this is real or an ARG.
1. Posted in News & Rumors
2. Posted in the [url=http://flickr.com/photos/miguelhernandez/2697471865/in/pool-argARG Flickr[/url] group but he also started a separate group just for it.
3. Our poster is an artist, it seems. Check out his flickr.

So, again, the operative question. If this is a game, you should not be posting in here (after you announce your trailhead).
If it is real, then please ask a uF moderator to move this to Various & Sundry and then folks who are interested can continue to help you find this person (for whatever reason).

I would suggest starting with elementary or Jr High year books for the region in the 1970s. Most school libraries will have back issues. Good luck on that (you might come across as someone with altered reasons for seeking out pictures of children).


PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:50 pm
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natas
PHP Ninja


Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 3177
Location: Northwest Indiana

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beating_a_dead_horse

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:00 pm
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stratagos
Unfettered


Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 339
Location: Philadelphia suburbs

phyzix wrote:
Yes. I am an artist. I teach art, and I am an artist.

It surprises me that we are driven to this type of mentality. Our first reaction is to not trust someone and to think that the intentions are anything but good.

Her name/address/image, are all public record so we would not be revealing anything that she does not want to be revealed because it is already made public. We are merely working together to find a single person in the world.

Please reconsider your sense of my intentions and if you still want to help me find this person then by all means let's do this together.


With respect, you're asking us to consider your point of view. That's reasonable. But you seem completely unwilling to consider the point of view who have concerns - quite legitimate concerns.

You may be completely confident that your request is reasonable, and that you have the best of intentions. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people here know absolutely nothing about you. You ask us to trust you, and to override any concerns we may have. I submit to you that you have given us no reason to do so. Instead, you have responded with anger bordering on ad hominem attacks. While you may feel this is a reasonable response to people questioning your motives, to an outside observer it may appear that you are attempting to deflect dissent by attacking those who have questions.

The fact is, while there may be a quite legitimate desire on your part to reunite this photograph with the person in it, you have to acknowledge that, if a stranger came to *you* with the exact same request, you may have concerns.

I have no interest in questioning your motives for doing this, but others have raised privacy concerns about the desires of the individual in question. Your response has basically been "I don't see the harm."

The problem with the above is, while you may not see the harm, other do - including, perhaps, the individual in question.

You are either ignoring the legitimate possibility that this person has zero interest in being contacted related to this, are placing your desires above hers, or are making assumptions about the mental state of a complete stranger. None of these possibilities reflect on you in a positive manner

In any case, you must acknowledge this is not the proper forum for this.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:07 pm
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ineffabelle
Unfettered


Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 700
Location: Southern California

phyzix wrote:
Her name/address/image, are all public record so we would not be revealing anything that she does not want to be revealed because it is already made public. We are merely working together to find a single person in the world.


Ummmm woah!!

1) How do you know her name/address/image are all public record if you have no idea WHO she is?!

2) How do you know what she would and wouldn't want to be revealed if you DON'T KNOW WHO SHE IS?!

3) If you already know her name, address, and wishes, WHY do you need to find her?!

The more info you post in response to peoples legitimate concerns the more alarm bells are going off in my head!!! Shocked Silly

If you don't see any issue with what you are suggesting why don't you post your picture, real name, address, and phone number so we and anyone else who stumbles across this thread on the internet can track you down, and then we'll see what's what. Shifty Eyes
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:26 pm
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faeryqueen21
Unfictologist


Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 1348
Location: Pasadena, CA

I personally think that phyzix has been nothing but polite during his "attacks" on other people. I think a lot of people jumped on him and his reaction was understandable.

There's no doubt that this thread should be moved but that's up to a mod to actually execute that.

I recently came across the website of an artist doing something similar. He had found an old picture of three men on motorcycles and has made it his mission to find them. I don't know his exact purposes (or remember the web address) but it was for artistic reasons. And, probably just because it could be fun to play detective. Yes, there is a good chance that this woman won't appreciate his efforts and might be weirded out. But he's not doing anything illegal and maybe, just maybe, she'll be grateful. I personally would love to see a piece of my past returned to me. Also, I highly doubt this is a recent photo doctored to look old. This girl is a grown woman now and I don't think he would be violating any moral codes regarding child safety.

The long and short of it is, everyone is entitled to their opinions. If you think it's wrong, don't help him.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:38 pm
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natas
PHP Ninja


Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 3177
Location: Northwest Indiana

Why post all that here, though. If I wanted help fixing my car, should I post in a forum on kitchen utensils? It just makes no sense.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:41 pm
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faeryqueen21
Unfictologist


Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 1348
Location: Pasadena, CA

Well unFiction has been referred to as a Collective Detective. If I were to take on this kind of venture (and I wouldn't, but that's just me) this is the first place I would look for help.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:43 pm
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Esteed
Entrenched


Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 1147
Location: Delaware

natas wrote:
Why post all that here, though. If I wanted help fixing my car, should I post in a forum on kitchen utensils? It just makes no sense.


This is pretty much the case. This is in no way an ARG. There's no game here, despite him saying that the "game" is finding someone in the real world. That's not an ARG, ergo it shouldn't be in an ARG-related forum.

Also, I really think this could bring harm to the community. This is why I'm concerned. I would be very shocked if this woman responds positively to finding out that a bunch of strangers on the internet tracked her down for another stranger, after that stranger posted a picture of her as a little girl on a public forum.

EDIT: To add to this, because I don't think I've clarified my point here: My fear is that this woman is going to be creeped out by finding this out, assuming we even can find her. She may get the police involved, and the police will then follow the trail backwards. One thing we don't need is a bunch of police poking around here. There's enough questionable material in these games that I think it could conceivably cause problems for us, if the police decided they wanted to make an issue of this.

My advice to phyzix would be to contact local law enforcement, or even a local private investigator, if he actually wishes to do this. Not a bunch of random ARG players on the internet. I think this woman would react much more positively to the police or a PI, or some other official kind of person, tracking her down than a bunch of people on the internet that she's never even spoken to.

Also, I don't care who refers to UnFiction as a "Collective Detective". We are ARG players. We are not private investigators, we are not real detectives. We are people that play games. If you want help with something real, you need to go to real detectives. Not a bunch of ARG players.
_________________
"The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down and whisper "No."" -Rorschach

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:50 pm
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faeryqueen21
Unfictologist


Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 1348
Location: Pasadena, CA

Fine. Esteed, I understand your points. I still don't think he's doing anything illegal, but I understand not wanting uF to be a part of it in case someone wants to lay blame.

The people I've heard of who have done stuff like this (like that guy in NY who wanted to track down a girl he saw on the subway) have set up a website or a blog for it. Yes, an official website may up the "creepiness" factor, but it would at least take it off of uF. Those who want to help can follow, and those who are appalled can wash their hands of it.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:01 pm
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Esteed
Entrenched


Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 1147
Location: Delaware

faeryqueen21 wrote:
Fine. Esteed, I understand your points. I still don't think he's doing anything illegal, but I understand not wanting uF to be a part of it in case someone wants to lay blame.

The people I've heard of who have done stuff like this (like that guy in NY who wanted to track down a girl he saw on the subway) have set up a website or a blog for it. Yes, an official website may up the "creepiness" factor, but it would at least take it off of uF. Those who want to help can follow, and those who are appalled can wash their hands of it.


I don't think we've been provided with enough proof one way or the other what this guy's real motives are. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, but I cannot say for certain that he's not actually a stalker. Do I think he is? No, I don't think he is. But I don't know he isn't, and neither does anyone else. I do agree that people jumped on him too quickly and too harshly, however.

It isn't that I'm appalled. I just don't think this endeavor will have the outcome this guy wants it to if he goes about it this way. I think if he really wants to do this, and he's hoping for a positive response, he should take it to someone more official than random internet strangers. Now, if he wants to make a website for it and take it off this community, I will wash my hands of it, but I don't think phyzix is going about this right at all if he's using random internet strangers. If he wants a positive response, the best way to go about this is with the help of a private investigator or, possibly, law enforcement.
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"The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down and whisper "No."" -Rorschach

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:15 pm
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