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Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » ARG: Find the Lost Ring

[Beijing] The Monumental Wave and the Flare

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mr.judkins
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Joined: 26 Feb 2008
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Location: Wellington, NZ

[Beijing] The Monumental Wave and the Flare
Deciphering Part of the Message of the Sixth Ring

I figured we should start moving these discussions out of the Ring Unification Party thread - and figured these two topics were pretty well linked.

Firstly - WHERE will our travellers depart from? We discovered through the irc brainstorming session that the Monumental Wave was referring to the Great Wall of China, but where along it should our Amnesiacs be?

Unagi had this to say in the other thread:

unagi wrote:

Note: the torch relay on August 7th started at Badaling, the site of the most visited section of the Great Wall of China.

The following page might be useful.
The Great Wall of China, Beijing
The closest point to Beijing is probably Juyongguan Pass.
Qinhuangdao Olympic Stadium‎ for some football games are closer to the Great Wall, but perhaps we don't have to consider this.

Having a further look, I see the Road Cycling course apparently runs "back and forth between BADALING and Juyong Pass" (their emphasis).

When I activated the Scenic Spots on this official Olympics Beijing eMap it comes up with two places on the Great Wall - Balading and Mutianyu - the latter being way far out from the action.

I reckon with the combination of the Torch relay starting there, the Bike Racing going by and the importance of it's place on the wall, Unagi was right from the begining with Balading. Smile

What do others think?

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:21 am

Canzonett
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Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 489
Location: Munich

Oops - I hadn't noticed your new thread, sorry. Transferring data from the Ring Unification Party Thread ...

I discovered someting important on the website of Union Cycliste Internationale - this, however, seems to confirm that Juyongguan Pass is our place. We might need to check that map more exactly. And try to match panoramic view from both places with the picture from the codex ...

Beijing_Bicycle.pdf
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Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:30 am

unagi
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Location: Japan

Thank you for mentioning my post, mr.judkins. I couldn't think of bicycle races.

Canzonett wrote:

And try to match panoramic view from both places with the picture from the codex ...

Google Earth "JuYongGuan" shows the photo of the most west part of this restored segment of the Great Wall, and a zooming-out-like photo of the same object somewhat resembles the image in the Codex Ch.4. I wonder if this part was not restored by 1920s.

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:58 am

runeix ftlr
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Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 161
Location: Melbourne, Australia

1916-18 to be precise.

ruined wall.jpg
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fixed wall.jpg
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Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:10 am

unagi
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Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 464
Location: Japan

runeix ftlr wrote:

1916-18 to be precise.

Thanks, Mr.J., but they don't look so similar when seen at once ....
I should look at more photos ....

EDIT: Sorry, it's runeix, not mr.judkins ... Embarassed

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:45 am
Last edited by unagi on Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:21 am; edited 1 time in total

Canzonett
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Location: Munich

Regarding the Flare, I wonder if that picture at the end of chapter 24 is supposed to tell us something ...

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:57 am

jasper
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Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 560
Location: Texas

I don't know whether to feel pleased or a little sick that we are looking at that rocky picture from chp. 4 again. Laughing

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:29 am

danteIL
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Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1990

Chat about the 'monumental wave'

Quote:

<EliHunt> "the most proximal monumental wave"
<EliHunt> This is puzzling indeed.
<Shad0> "most proximal" = nearest, closest
<Canzonett> If there is a "most proximal" monumental wave, there must be other waves as well
<Canzonett> What are they?
<Tenchizard> so, what is a monumental wave?
<chippy> monumental . a statue of someone waving
<Tenchizard> a giant wave? or a wave coming from a monument?
<EliHunt> So, the closest "monumental wave" -- but what is that? Yes, Tenchizard, exactly.
<lehall> is it referring to the ripple that goes out every time something changes (like a branching?)
<Shad0> Does "monumental" mean simply large, or does it refer to a literal monument of some sort?
<MauroKing> sacred waves were mentioned once if i'm not wrong..
<lehall> or a physical motion in the world?
<Canzonett> Something like a physical wave, more likely
<Canzonett> air waves, sound waves, light waves, ...
<MauroKing> shock waves
<EliHunt> What makes a wave monumental?
<Shad0> This "most proximal monumental wave"... we presume this is the answer to where the "six must stand when the time comes to go home," right? That's the only piece of information left, I think?
<Canzonett> How would people at home know when to jump up?
<EliHunt> Yes, Shad0, a place to stand
<EliHunt> I'm not convinced it refers to the closing ceremonies themselves.
<JamesMutters> so would it be a geographical feature?
<EliHunt> After all, it does not say "Go to the closing ceremonies"
<Tenchizard> so, the six must be in a monumental wave?
<EliHunt> It says DURING the closing ceremonies
<Ariock> a mountain?
<Shad0> "Proximal" could mean nearest in time, not nearest in space
<EliHunt> Well, from the syntax it appears the wave is something you can stand on.
<EliHunt> Perhaps not water, then.
<Bookmore> Someone suggested monumental pointed to a monument.
<Canzonett> MeiHui, are there any places in Beijing associated with "waves" of any sort?
<EliHunt> Ariock, perhaps
<Bookmore> That seemed to make sense.
<starlajo> great wall?
<konamouse> is there a statue or sculpture garden the right distance away?
<lehall> hm!
<chippy> momumental: of or relating to a monument. Serving as or resembling a monument, massive, outstanding, highly significant, very great
<EliHunt> Starlajo, interesting
<Tenchizard> maybe a wave-shaped monument?
<konamouse> the wall???
<lehall> now... THAT is cool
<meihui> well, the great wall?
<EliHunt> Chippy, yes, very useful
<konamouse> the wall is a ribbon and could be a wave
<starlajo> it does kind of wave around
<Bookmore> Is it close enough ?
<starlajo> yes
<unagi> the great wall of China?
<EliHunt> Ah, very interesting
<EliHunt> Monumental, yes. Proximal, yes.
<meihui> yes, of china.. lol
<Bookmore> And is it accessible ?
<EliHunt> Wave...
<JamesMutters> Eli, in 2004, where did Toria stand?
<mrjudkins> Wow!
<konamouse> over the mountiains.
<Canzonett> There are parts of the wall close to Beijing, arent' there? They showed them during the bicycle races ...
<lehall> it definitely does resemble a wave through the landscape
<JamesMutters> when she went 'poof'
<EliHunt> We need to find an overhead image.
<Bookmore> EliHunt: As a giant landmark, it is likely to be present in the other dimensions too.
<Shad0> The Great Wall does go up and down as it follows the geography...
<CS> how could it be anything so specific as the great wall?
<EliHunt> Canzonett, they are using the wall for some athletic events?
<EliHunt> That would make it a very strong candidate then.
<mrjudkins> the cycling went past it
<Canzonett> ELi: Cycling along and through it ...
<konamouse> http://www.drben.net/files/China/City/Beijing/Outside_City_of_Beijing-All/Great_Wall_of_China/GreatWallSematai/GW-S-WallWalk/Sematai105QT.jpg
<EliHunt> Wasn't the Great Wall mentioned in the Codex?
<Dav> no
<Shad0> @Eli: Not that I remember, but I'll check
<meihui> but waves are supposed to move... the Great Wall doesn't
<Dav> no great wall in codex
<Tenchizard> maybe in a drawing?
<konamouse> the wall moves over the mountains.
<konamouse> and people move along the wall
<Dav> in a drawing I think so
<lehall> i think it was in an illustration
<JamesMutters> we're looking up the drawings of training sites
<Canzonett> The representation of the wall they used in the opening ceremony was moving!
<EliHunt> Toria traveled from Delphi.
<EliHunt> Which was my best guess for a portal. But I did not have the sixth ring then.
<CS> is there a great wall equivalent in Delphi?
<Canzonett> Delphi has its mountains ...
<JamesMutters> delphi is mountainous...
<konamouse> at the bottom of the mountain?

<EliHunt> This was the mysterious bit I wanted to discuss after the rings.
<mrjudkins> go ahead Smile

<EliHunt> Looking back, I'm still not clear exactly how we were able to send Toria home.
<EliHunt> I mean, I'm assuming we successfully sent Toria home. And James did see a vision of her.
<JamesMutters> I did
<lehall> hm
<Canzonett> But that was a vision of the past?
<EliHunt> But to be honest, given what we now know from the sixth ring, I am not at all sure why that worked.
<meihui> interesting..
<JamesMutters> she told me to get the omph strenght high enough for everyone to travel
<EliHunt> However, the great wall seems extremely promising.
<Dav> it was a vision of another world Canzonett
<Shad0> @Eli: Well, the 2004 Olympics were in Athens, so you weren't too far away...
<EliHunt> Can someone pinpoint exactly what area has been used in the sports already?
<Canzonett> Eli: in Beijing?
<Canzonett> or Delphi?
<EliHunt> Shad0, yes, we went to Greece because of the location of the games.
<Bookmore> And of the China Wall, I believe is what Eli is asking?
<EliHunt> Canzonett, sorry, which portion of the wall,
<JamesMutters> Eli, was it maybe just luck that the olympics were in greece?!
<chippy> cycling on the wall
<EliHunt> I would identify that as our strongest candidate for where to stand during the closing ceremonies, when they "flare."
<EliHunt> If we choose the official cheer as the flare, well, that would be something for them to do on the wall, for example.
<lehall> well...this is a really exciting revelation!
<Canzonett> They said something about freshly restored parts of the wall that were closed to the public during the race ...
<Tenchizard> hmm... I have just thought something
<Canzonett> We must look for a "monumental wave" at Delphi, then ...
<Dav> "return to your home during the closing ceremonies [?all] flare!"
<EliHunt> So I am, again, unsure exactly how we managed to send Toria home.
<mrjudkins> Very curious
<Tenchizard> if the labyrinth must be at 40 stadia, but the travelers must be at the monumental wave...
<EliHunt> Canzonett, yes, perhaps.
<Canzonett> Who sent her home, anyway?
<Tenchizard> maybe that's why it's five plus one?
<Shad0> @Eli: Perhaps that's why only one could travel?
<EliHunt> Yes, Tenchizard?
<meihui> 11 circuit just seems a bit ambitious...
<EliHunt> Oh. Hmmm.
<Tenchizard> five on the wave, one on the labyrinth
<EliHunt> OH.
<EliHunt> Hmmmm.
<EliHunt> Well, wait. Maybe not.
<JamesMutters> so to be clear, we've got 3 different things going on: 1 - the multiverse olympiad, which will begin at 5:30am beijing time on the day of the closing ceremonies..., 2 - the 11 circuit labyrinth... the purposes of which is unclear, and 3) the Flare command...
<EliHunt> Because the "one" would be doing the 11 circuit.
<JamesMutters> and maybe 4, a location to do the flare command?
<EliHunt> And we didn't have anyone doing that in 2004.
<Dav> maybe you need to have only the travelers do a labyrinth
<meihui> hahaha... nicely summed up james
<lehall> that sounds fairly close, james
<Dav> with 1 runner and 5 walls
<lehall> yeah Smile

what she said
<Dav> @_@
<Shad0> @James: Well, the purpose of the 11-circuit labyrinth is the "last labyrinth" that opens the doorway to other worlds.
<Canzonett> James: not to forget the wave
<EliHunt> James, yes, thank you, that is very helpful
<JamesMutters> finally, I get something right!
<EliHunt> Yes, James, and please know I did not mean to be abrupt earlier. It is rather late here and I haven't had my evening tea.
<Shad0> @Tenchizard: So one runs the labyrinth, and five stand on the wave, and those five get sent home, and the one running the labyrinth must remain?
<Tenchizard> that's what I think
<JamesMutters> no worries Eli
<EliHunt> Tenchizard, that makes some sense to me, but it hasn't quite clicked yet.
<Tenchizard> that would solve the mistery of why it's 5+1
<EliHunt> It feels close...
<Canzonett> So, what are we trying to determine right now? Or are we just summing things up? Still talking about Toria? Maybe she's the key ...
<EliHunt> I agree that you are moving us toward a better understanding of the 5 and 1.
<Shad0> If the Omph Strength were high enough -- say, more than thrice the minimum required to send home six athletes -- could someone else run the 11-circuit labyrinth and more than five people stand on the "wave"?
<Tenchizard> maybe it's the other way around
<Nighthawk> The one runs an 11-circuit labyrinth alone?!?
<Tenchizard> 5 in the labyrinth, 1 in the wave
<Dav> I think "flare" has to do with the synchronization and the "wave" has more to do with the actual travel /myopinion
<konamouse> no, i think 1 runs the labryinth
<EliHunt> I think the traveling happens from the wave itself.
<mrjudkins> Yeah right...
<Tenchizard> the one in the wave is the flare... the 5 in the labyrinth are the travellers?
<EliHunt> Dav, yes.
<JamesMutters> wait wait wait... I thought that more than 6 could travel!! Toria told me so
<konamouse> it's always been 1 runner.
<EliHunt> James, my guess is anyone on the wave can travel if the strenght is hight enough.
<mrjudkins> Perhaps we have more than five in the wave?
<Canzonett> The runner sort of presses the button - and gets the train for the other ones going ...
<Tenchizard> the it's one on the labyrinth...
<mrjudkins> the instructions of five and one simply referring to the fact that one must stay behind
<mrjudkins> Well - if that's the case, Markus would be staying home - surely the Thumos will be the runner?
<Canzonett> The five and one are the acual athletes, I believe, not the total number of travellers.
<Shad0> The Codex presumed that there would be six agonothetai -- which there are -- and only those six would want to return to their home worlds.
<CS> if it doesn't matter who runs the 11 circuit, all travelers can go?
<EliHunt> What time is the closing ceremonies?
<mrjudkins> I tihnk the same as teh opening 8pm
<JamesMutters> 8pm I believe
<EliHunt> We might want to continue thinking about the purpose fo the 11 circuit and its timing.
<EliHunt> Hopefully there won't be too many people at the wall at that time.
<Shad0> @EliHunt: Except that the Codex says the "flare" is the thing that should ideally involve "many thousands of individuals" in both worlds
<EliHunt> It might be a little odd to see a flare.
<EliHunt> Or rather, to lose the minute of memory when the flare occurs.
<EliHunt> Which is what happened to us at Delphi.
<Tenchizard> But are you sure the flare must be at the wave?
<Bookmore> Hmm, interesting.
<mrjudkins> lose the minute of memory?
<Shad0> @Eli: The amnesia affected observers as well, eh?
<Nighthawk> But only those doing the flare at the wave travel? God, I'm confusing myself...
<EliHunt> Tenchizard, that's not what I'm saying.
<CS> say more about Delphi
<JamesMutters> Eli, could you explain a little more about what happened in Delphi?
<Dav> I mean we COULD use a physical flare just to help with the whole synchronization/flare thing
<EliHunt> I'm saying in addition to the 91,000, the travelers can do the same
<Shad0> The "flare," as I understand it, is what we're going to predict 91,000 people will be doing during the closing ceremonies.
<Shad0> It's separate from the "monumental wave" at the Great Wall
<EliHunt> I am sure someone will write up a nice summary of this conversation since there appears to be many threads interweaving not helpfully in some minds. Smile

<EliHunt> Understandably, of course.
<Bookmore> JamesMutters: Maybe Eli can't give us much more because he can't recall that last famous minute ?
<EliHunt> This is a complex code we are cracking.
<Bookmore> Now about this wave of yours in Delphi...
<EliHunt> and that is what I a saying, unfortunately. I feel we stumbled onto success but am still not sure why.
<mrjudkins> Right...
<CS> Delphi, please!
<JamesMutters> I understand
<EliHunt> I thought since Delphi was the site of the first omphalos...
<sparta247> I mean, for all we know the rings could have supernatural powers
<Dav> wait Eli
<Canzonett> Yes, but that's not at the stadium itself.
<EliHunt> and you know, the agonothetia pledge has many references to "the first omphalos"...
<mrjudkins> When the time comes... look to delphi.
<konamouse> face that directino.
<Shad0> It was an excellent speculation.
<mrjudkins> the one true omphalos
<Bookmore> When you are at the temple of Apollo in Delphi, there is a large stretch of road that curles over it litterally like a wave - or so Google Earth displays.
<EliHunt> Yes, exactly.
<sparta247> I call heart
<Dav> do you think the wave happens at some nearby monumental spot?
<Bookmore> Would that work ?
<Dav> like in Athens it was at Delphi
<EliHunt> I think perhaps like a labyinth, which curves, a wave is a similarly synchronising shape.
<Dav> and in China it'd be at the Great Wall
<EliHunt> It does direct your movement.
<Bookmore> Hmmmm.
<EliHunt> I can imagine, now, the allies walking some of the Great wall much as we walked the path at Delphi.
<Canzonett> you gain speed by it
<EliHunt> It is a very specific path.
<Dav> true
<Dav> and it's not something you can deviate from without falling off the wall
<mrjudkins> so we find a part of the great wall which matches the path you walked at Delphi?
<EliHunt> Dav, true. We hope! Although Kai does seem prone to accidents.
<EliHunt> Although I suspect he might not be walking that path, unless he decides to go with Ariadne.
<meihui> you should be
<Dav> if we tell them to walk the great wall, then perhaps the synchronization will be so enormous that they'll travel--there's no possible way you can deviate from walking the great wall
<EliHunt> Yes, excellent.
<Canzonett> There's not so much walkable wall to choose from, I believe
<EliHunt> My brain is tiring, but I feel we have accomplished a great deal.

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY:
So, the task seems to be to find a location along the Great Wall where a) Olympic athletic synchronization has already taken place and b) additional 'flare' synchronization can occur during the closing ceremonies.

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:18 pm

unagi
Unfettered

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 464
Location: Japan

Finally I read the whole chat log. I realize I wrote a lot of foolish things Embarassed

without reading a lot to read.

And I have just found Ariock and Chippy already mentioned JuYong Pass (JuYongGuan) during the chat. Great!

AUZ505, I think "Flare" won't be on the Great Wall.

Quote:

<Tenchizard> But are you sure the flare must be at the wave?
....
<EliHunt> Tenchizard, that's not what I'm saying.

EDIT: Sorry, it's dante, not AUZ505 ... Embarassed

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:16 am
Last edited by unagi on Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:39 am; edited 1 time in total

danteIL
Unfictologist

Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1990

Eli confused himself, of course:

That quote goes on to say...

Quote:

<EliHunt> Tenchizard, that's not what I'm saying.
...
<EliHunt> I'm saying in addition to the 91,000, the travelers can do the same

Also, earlier in the chat:

Quote:

<EliHunt> I would identify that as our strongest candidate for where to stand during the closing ceremonies, when they "flare."
<EliHunt> If we choose the official cheer as the flare, well, that would be something for them to do on the wall, for example.

So, it's not clear how the flare is supposed to work. In the stadium *and* at the wall??

At the same time as the 11-circuit labyrinth at yet another location 40 stadia away??

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:35 am

DavFlamerock
Entrenched

Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 937
Location: H2Oville, ME, USA

More people doing the flare = more synchronization = more goodness = more going home.

So having the people on the wall do it is just to have better synchronization.

And I have no idea what the relation between this and the Dance is supposed to be yet.

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:18 am

AUZ505
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 1599
Location: Germany

unagi wrote:

Finally I read the whole chat log. I realize I wrote a lot of foolish things Embarassed

without reading a lot to read.

And I have just found Ariock and Chippy already mentioned JuYong Pass (JuYongGuan) during the chat. Great!

AUZ505, I think "Flare" won't be on the Great Wall.

Where have I stated this?

_________________
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Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:29 am

unagi
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Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 464
Location: Japan

AUZ505 wrote:

unagi wrote:

AUZ505, I think "Flare" won't be on the Great Wall.

Where have I stated this?

Oh, it's dante! Embarassed

I'm very sorry. Why did I repeat the same mistake, twice in a thread? I must have been sleeping. orz

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:37 am

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