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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): Puzzles
[UPDATE] specific times on locations - Coordinates 8-17-04
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sherpa
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Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 338
Location: cam.ac.uk
sfsdfd wrote:
Reading between the lines, I think this is an implicit apology on behalf of the PMs for wasting our collective time with bad coord data. And I/we can earnestly accept it, since the difficulty in coordinating this large an effort (for a free ARG) is probably difficult.


Well, that's fair enough, but why were the data so odd (and wrong) in the first place? *shrug*
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:57 pm
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IvanLeopold
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Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 17

 		Alright, I'm home now.
I haven't seen GPS satellite analysis yet or time vs. distance analysis, so I'm hopping to it. Post again in a few hours, folks. Helpful advice?

-Ivan, who wishes he had done this yesterday instead of spending all day playing Morrowind.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:02 pm
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danteGA
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Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 65

 		Okay here's something for all you conspiracy theorists out there:

The 8:35 point, in Dallas, is as far as I can tell, at the location of the Grassy Knoll. [8:35 32.778333 -96.807433]



More seriously, I think we should wiki up a list of the coordinates so people can add a listing of what major category seems to be at each place. So far in my browsing, I have found a number of points that are in downtowns or city centers (perhaps what you would get if you asked for the coordinates of an entire city?), and a number that are at colleges and universities. Other people have mentioned libraries and/or malls.

My SPEC is that these could represent places where the Queen is searching for information about how the hell to get out/escape. The points may be changing because she is slowly zeroing in on the information she needs?

dante

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:08 pm
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SocialElite
Boot


Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 66

 		revisions
Can anybody tell me how many times the coord list has been revised, and whether we have any even remotely accurate guesses as to the times of each update? Excluding the shift from PST to PDT, which appears to be prompted by discussion here, does there appear to be a pattern? Along the same lines, where can I find a collection of the various versions of the coord list? I'm personally leaning towards the theory of the revisions as being (mostly) preplanned and pointing to a puzzle, so I wouldn't mind being able to do a little bit of comparing and contrasting. Any help would be greatly appreciated. With regards,

Ian Whalen

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:13 pm
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sherpa
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Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 338
Location: cam.ac.uk

 		Re: revisions
SocialElite wrote:
Can anybody tell me how many times the coord list has been revised, and whether we have any even remotely accurate guesses as to the times of each update? Excluding the shift from PST to PDT, which appears to be prompted by discussion here, does there appear to be a pattern? Along the same lines, where can I find a collection of the various versions of the coord list? I'm personally leaning towards the theory of the revisions as being (mostly) preplanned and pointing to a puzzle, so I wouldn't mind being able to do a little bit of comparing and contrasting. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


It was updated at 5pm (9am PST, noon EDT or whatever the acronym for Eastern Daylight Savings Time is) on Tuesday 10th (metastasis) and then again at 5pm (9am PST, noon EDT) yesterday, tuesday 16th. Shortly after the first set of co-ords were released one which turned out to be in the ocean was changed. Six appear to have changed since yesterday and those are detailed in this thread I believe. The original ones are on the wiki.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:24 pm
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sfsdfd
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Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 112
sherpa wrote:
Well, that's fair enough, but why were the data so odd (and wrong) in the first place? *shrug*

It happens. :shrug:

I can present two reasons:

1) GPS stuff is simply hard. I wrote a PocketPC GPS application for the geocaching community, and I was surprised by its complexity. Consumer-level devices show a lot of signal inaccuracy and drift. Altitude is tracked either very inaccurately or not at all by most devices. Throw in datums (WGS-84 vs. a hundred others) and reporting formats (DegDec, MinDec, DMS, and the completely different UTM, or Universal Transverse Mercator') - unless everyone is using the same device, it can be very confusing.

2) These games sometimes (frequently) go awry. The endgame from the Evan Chan/AI ARG required players to use an altitude map to build a huge clay model; if you looked at the model from the right angle, you could see the word "Founder," which was a password for a certain puzzle. But it was a disaster: unless you sculpted the clay with exacting detail, you couldn't see a damn thing. The PMs are human, and probably few, and probably working on a limited budget and time frame that prevent double-checking. So it happens.

- David Stein

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:38 pm
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SixByNine
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Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 34

 		I have attached the latest coordinates in excel, alongside the previous ones for comparison. There seems to be no real logic in the movements...

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:41 pm
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Extrasonic
Decorated


Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 233
Location: Suburban Chicago
devolver wrote:
I think this is a very good thought, too. I have also been wondering about the first set of coordinates. Why give them to us so early? As a puzzle goes, it wasn't difficult at all. I don't have any sort of GPS device, but "coordinates" was the first thing I thought when I found the list. They must have known we would figure all the locations out in a day--why give them to us two weeks in advance? (To play devil's advocate for myself, maybe to give us time to organize and get people at those locations?)(But then again, if that's the case, why put some locations in the middle of nowhere? It will be interesting to see if those are changed...)


Quite frankly, I am starting to believe that the coordinate data is just preparation for a puzzle that will occur at wide-awake and physical. For the record, I don't believe that events will occur at those physical locations at the times listed, because:

a) What physical interaction could take place at these locations that we could reasonably expect from the in-game clues?
b) All the physical interactions would have to be either exactly the same at each site or at least have enough repetition to accomodate the fact that dozens of sites could go unscouted at their specified times by the largest community playing this ARG (Dorkmaster's list only has 72 of the 210 sites covered at the time of this writing)
c) Meta-wise, it's a logistical nightmare for the PMs

However, I do think it's possible that events will occur at those times on the website, where our non-U.S. bretheren can play along. Perhaps virtual (i.e. website) events at the given times, when taken in conjunction with data we can find about these points on the Internet (again, lack of coverage) will yield meaningful results.

Then again, it could all be an elaborate code, too, and have nothing to do with GPS. Step up and smell the trout:

Dana's weblog entry from 8/13 wrote:
Nearly arrested today for walking on the grass in Yu Yuan Gardens. Public space here in Shanghai still feels somehow... private. Guarded. Much more regulated than in Bejing.

Error compounded: I was so flustered from the police encounter that I accidentally ordered two sugary meat puffs for lunch at the Mister Donut on Nanjing Xilu. (I thought they were chocolate creme-filled!) Lesson learned: Looks can be deceiving here, even when dealing with something as simple as the donut.


In other words: don't trespass on private property and you're not looking at what you think you're looking at.

My $0.02.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:45 pm
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BoonIsha
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Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 207

 		nice analysis...i agree with him here. i think this is exactly what dana was trying to tell us. this isnt about coordinates, or at least, if it is, then its not something that we need to go there to visit.


good work



boon

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:52 pm
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Dorkmaster
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 1328
Location: The People's Republic of Dork

 		Well thought out, Extrasonic. I don't fully agree, but you've gotten me to think about this possibility more than anyone else thus far! (And I'm a stubborn dude, so well done there!) But, I still think there will be a repetitive element involved here. Like many have said, why do GPS if you don't want people to go there? There's lots of other ways to get a puzzle started, and it could do with many different things, without being GPS. Not to mention, there's been quite a bit of spec about internet searching these locations, and we've not come up with anything yet, so I don't tend to think this is the case. However, I do think there will be more on the website that will be giving those around the globe more to play with. However, I just can't shake the notion that something will be happening physically at these locations because of the fact that "unvisitable" locations, like in the middle of the ocean, have been corrected and double-quick. But again, kudos on the well-thought-out theory!
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:54 pm
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princeofthesword
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Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 67

 		Trying to save space by not posting new topics, so I guess it fits here. Has anyone (I no longer have a list of them) checked the list of websites given previously on the Links page in Phase 2 with the info we have on the axons? Like perhaps, keywords, place names, the places themselves? All the mentioning of places of learning, etc., has me curious. The fact that both were on the links page might mean something important, might've been a "First attempt" type of thing to reach out through the network. All she managed was a list of stuff pertinent to her agenda? And now the Axons are much more specific. Trout me if this is elsewhere, thanks.

Spec, she might be gathering info that way, but spec 2, it's likely Flea is guiding these coords now, so it could be something as wild as "Forerunner artifact buried way deep right here." Sherpa's right about this not being a puzzle that we're supposed to be physically involved in, I believe. Like "Show up here at appointed time." But it's there, and I refuse to believe there's not a reason, and I refuse to wait to find out what that reason was. Apocalypse, she mentioned, and repeated urgency etc., uh, don't forget that. Farewell.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 4:00 pm
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msekolpsu
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Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 119

 		This is fantastic! Some actual corresponding relevance (finally!) to Dana's blog!

Extrasonic, that was sweet extrapolation in my book!

Worshippy

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 4:01 pm
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msekolpsu
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Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 119

 		prince, while I haven't checked all the sites, I do know one was going to Dorney Park in Allentown and so far, I haven't seen one up here yet (I'm in Allentown now).

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 4:03 pm
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Eck
Boot

Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 33

 		Regardless of whether or not anything is going to BE at the appointed locations, I don't think its too much of a stretch to go to them anways. Better safe than sorry, right? The santa cruz location is maybe 10-15 minutes from my house, so it's not a hassle or anything. I imagine there are at least a few more people within decent proximity to make stops. And if we're all wrong, then at least we didn't miss anything.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 4:03 pm
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GunsmithCat
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Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 459
Eck wrote:
Regardless of whether or not anything is going to BE at the appointed locations, I don't think its too much of a stretch to go to them anways. Better safe than sorry, right? The santa cruz location is maybe 10-15 minutes from my house, so it's not a hassle or anything. I imagine there are at least a few more people within decent proximity to make stops. And if we're all wrong, then at least we didn't miss anything.


I'm with Extrasonic. I don't think this is a physical event. No, it can't hurt if you follow those guidelines, but it just doesn't add up to me. It doesn't fit any IG evidence and it doesn't make much meta logic.

IOW, We haven't been given any indication that something physical will happen there ... so blaming the PMs seems kinda premature. I think we're also jumping to the conclusion that the water coordinates were a mistake or that the PMs are wasting any of our times. By changing the coordinates I think they're giving us clues as to how and maybe why they are being formed.

I'm certainly not saying these places shouldn't be scouted, as it's certainly possible that they hold clues we can't see from the site. I giggled when I saw the "Buzy Bee" sign off of Addison and certainly don't want to rob that of anyone. Just saying we should keep our expectations within the framework of the game and evidence we've got.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 4:11 pm
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