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 Forum index » Meta » General META Discussion
Why ARG?
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IndependentPsycho
Boot

Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 19

 		Why ARG?
A question of Name Purpose and Identity
The term ARG strikes me as fascinating.

Alternate Reality: We are supposed to interact within the digital and physical world, yet we don't actually break the barriers of reality. It's still just people playing "make believe" for fun and profit.

Game: If "this is not a game" why classify them as a game.

It would be interesting if these actually were real, but short of a government agency using the Net as a means to solve crises it's still a bunch of underage kids wasting time on a fantasy.

I can see it now: House, Numbers, Shark, and The UnGames.

Go ahead flame me but I feel like we are trying to legitimize a bunch of LARPers with money.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:13 pm
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konamouse
Official uF Dietitian


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 8010
Location: My own alternate reality

 		not all of these are Games, some are experiences, some are just Chaotic Fiction (to use SpaceBass's terms).

And I resent being called "underage". I'm, uh, past that. If you take a look at the audience at ARGFest, you'll see that. Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:45 pm
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krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 26 Sep 2002
Posts: 3651
Location: Is not Chicago
Quote:
but I feel like we are trying to legitimize a bunch of LARPers with money.


One of the first things I ask myself when creating an ARG is, "Is this fun?" Some experiences might have elements of live action role play, but some don't. Storytelling/environment immersion is probably the purest (most abstract) goal of any ARG, and seeing as how telling stories is something humans have done since our days in the cave ...

Legitimizing how people play is not really anyone's job, when it comes down to it. Smile I mean, you can try, I suppose, but it's like herding cats. Cats that dig calculus and Shakespeare.

Quote:
yet we don't actually break the barriers of reality.

Allow me to disagree:

- When working on World Without Oil, I saw people apply ideas and actions to their present-day everyday lives that they were *also* playing out in a fictional near-future scenario. People were getting their bikes repaired, were joining community-sponsored agricultural shares, and streamlining their errands to save on fuel.

- One of the best ARGs I ever played was Last Call Poker. I did Favors for the Dead, which means I not only interacted with characters in the game, but I also tended to actual real graves, cleaning them up a little, leaving flowers, candles, messages. I even used my maternal grandfather's grave for one of the tasks, writing an imaginary letter from him to another person buried nearby - and my Mom was there with me, supplying me with what little details she remembered about him, as he died when she was very young. I will always have that memory of getting closer to my Mom and learning about that side of my family. My Mom also grew to understand even more why I love doing what I do now (designing ARGs), and why her support is so great for me to have.

That's pretty real.

Distilling ARGs down to "it's LARPing for $" is too easy. Smile

Stol!
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:43 am
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117
Quote:
Alternate Reality: We are supposed to interact within the digital and physical world, yet we don't actually break the barriers of reality


I consider the fact that the people here in this community, that I've played games with, are real people grounds the game firmly in reality. The people here are real and many of them have become my friends. At the last ARGFest, I mentioned to one of the speakers from Europe that I had met every single person in the conference room online, he was surprised. But that is the nature of this community - we get to know each other online and become friends.

I also agree with krystyn, I've had many experiences while playing ARGs that "break the barriers of reality." One of the most fun things about ARGs is that you get know new and interesting people you wouldn't otherwise meet, and you get to go places you wouldn't ordinarily go. During Art of the Heist, I took my son and his friend to a DJ lesson from a location used in the game. His friend, who had always been interested in music, now has his own record label and is a well-known drum and bass DJ. Year Zero certainly made people more politically aware and politically active. The list of "real world", tangible things that I've done while playing a game or as a result of playing a game is extensive. One thing's for sure, I never walk past a ringing payphone without answering it.

I'm assuming that you are new to this genre. I'm sure as you play games you will share some of these experiences that break the barrier of reality.

Quote:
Go ahead flame me but I feel like we are trying to legitimize a bunch of LARPers with money.


I see three flaws with this: you assume people will flame you, you assume players are a bunch of LARPers and you assume we have money! Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:43 am
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IndependentPsycho
Boot

Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 19

 		I guess I'll try to respond in turn Razz

Quote:
And I resent being called "underage". I'm, uh, past that. If you take a look at the audience at ARGFest, you'll see that.

Oh sure because all the millions of player claimed by 42 were in attendance at Argfest? KonaMouse, I already know how old you are... besides didn't you say at ARGfest that you couldn't have a SciFi ARG, that it broke the rules. No points for you.

Quote:
I mean, you can try, I suppose, but it's like herding cats.

I hope you're referencing the EDS Super Bowl ad? Because that would be awesome. Although the running of the squirrels was so much better

Quote:
I see three flaws with this: you assume people will flame you, you assume players are a bunch of LARPers and you assume we have money!


Oh come on... 1. I just compared ARG players to fat kids wearing robes and yelling FIREBALL in the woods. Why am I not being flamed? 2. ARG players are supposed to go out into the real world and act out their role in the game. 3. ... okay okay sorry only the suits actually believe players have money.

Now, in response to the attempts to prove that the players penetrate the barriers of reality.

1. Interacting with new people who you never could have previously met: Verdict? Still Reality

2. Adopting new patterns of behavior from the interaction with entertainmet: Verdict? The documentarian's wet dream. Still Reality

3. Finding new meaning in existing relationships from a communal activity: Verdict? One of those experiences that make me believe humanity again. Still reality.

Quote:
Distilling ARGs down to "it's LARPing for $" is too easy.

If glove fits...

Independent Psycho

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:06 pm
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krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 26 Sep 2002
Posts: 3651
Location: Is not Chicago

 		I like string!
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xbl gamertag: krystyn

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:19 pm
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IndependentPsycho
Boot

Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 19

 		Me I prefer M-theory.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:31 pm
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Rogi Ocnorb
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Joined: 01 Sep 2005
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IndependentPsycho wrote:
Oh come on... 1. I just compared ARG players to fat kids wearing robes and yelling FIREBALL in the woods. Why am I not being flamed? 2. ARG players are supposed to go out into the real world and act out their role in the game. 3. ... okay okay sorry only the suits actually believe players have money.


1. If you don't know, we may not be able to help you with that. Best advice... Just go with it. You'll find we don't like to be offhandedly dumped into an ill-fitting bucket, but when it happens, the earth will continue to revolve around the sun.

2. Some games do ask their players to go out into the real world and leave a mark (good or bad). But a lot don't. It's just as likely that the entire universe you're interacting with is separate from this reality. Or a tweak on this reality that, again, doesn't necessarily require you to play a "role".

3. I've got money. I just choose not to give any of it to corporate games. I donate to this site, grassroots stuff I like and games that support good causes or burgeoning artists. Players aren't just takers. This site's a good example. How many "entertainment" sites outside the corporate/pay-to-play sphere can you name that have this much lifespan and traffic and nary an ad in sight (metacortechs doesn't count).
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:56 pm
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konamouse
Official uF Dietitian


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 8010
Location: My own alternate reality
IndependentPsycho wrote:
I guess I'll try to respond in turn Razz

Quote:
And I resent being called "underage". I'm, uh, past that. If you take a look at the audience at ARGFest, you'll see that.

Oh sure because all the millions of player claimed by 42 were in attendance at Argfest? KonaMouse, I already know how old you are... besides didn't you say at ARGfest that you couldn't have a SciFi ARG, that it broke the rules. No points for you.


Shocked

I said what? What rules? Please enlighten me on how I stated that a SciFi ARG broke rules.

You can have any points you want. I just happen to disagree with your hypothesis.

And back to your recent posts. I see you like pushing buttons.
Here, have a lollipop.

We're people of all ages, enjoying a different means of entertainment, and often for free. Enjoy!
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:19 pm
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Euchre
uF Game Warden


Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 3342

 		Uh, where have people been asked to go in 'meatspace' and play a role for an ARG? This is news to me, all the 'games' I've heard of had you being your real self interacting with a character as if it was a real person - hence alternate reality.

Other than that, my response to all of this inquiry is basically the 'Harley Postulate':

"Why do you ride a Harley-Davison motorcycle? It's expensive, slower than other bikes, less efficient, less reliable, and poorer handling!"

"Dude, it's a Harley."

Sometimes the sum of the parts are much greater than the whole, in fairly intangible ways. Instead of getting stuck trying to figure out the enigma, just relax and enjoy yourself.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:42 am
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addlepated
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Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Posts: 1885
Location: Austin, Texas
Euchre wrote:
Uh, where have people been asked to go in 'meatspace' and play a role for an ARG?

Violette's Dream, for one. I had to go in and tell them my name was Peter Hayder. Couldn't say I was picking up a package for him; had to say I was him. The bookstore where the package was had very specific instructions. I told them my parents had a sense of humor when they named me.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:54 am
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IndependentPsycho
Boot

Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 19
Quote:
Instead of getting stuck trying to figure out the enigma, just relax and enjoy yourself.

I am enjoying myself. A lot actually. Very Happy
Actually I am busy studying Ocular Effect. I am interested in the difference between Extended Experience and ARGs.

Quote:
I had to go in and tell them my name was Peter Hayder. Couldn't say I was picking up a package for him; had to say I was him. The bookstore where the package was had very specific instructions. I told them my parents had a sense of humor when they named me.

Multipass anyone?

Idea What if they only give out a package once an hour. To the second person, they give a tracking device, to help them find their stolen package.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:48 pm
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FLmutant
Decorated


Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 244
Location: Orlando, FL

 		Re: Why ARG?
A question of Name Purpose and Identity
IndependentPsycho wrote:
The term ARG strikes me as fascinating.


You're welcome to adopt it as your own then, IP. Most of the rest of are done with it, and it wasn't a term of art that any of the developers in that space created (although some have advocated for it.) Which is probably why people didn't take your flame bait (it was certainly why I didn't respond promptly to the thread.) From my perspective, it is useful mainly as a historical label, like perhaps "cyberpunk," that describes a collection of nearly completely unrelated work that shares certain attributes.

By that view, though ... I don't think you understand what the term ARG used to mean at all. Which is fine, actually: there's only two examples in my history where we literally said "this time, let's adopt the rules of the ARG community and set out to make something that fits inside that definition." Conversely, if you asked the fan community that same question, I bet they would answer that we've done four ARGs ... but one of those was a label they applied after the fact, and another is a clear attempt to get beyond that narrow box.

Personally, I think "ARG" was an attempt to describe what other theoretical designers call "experience design" -- personally, I'm an advocate of the definition of that from Nathan Shedroff back in 2001:

Quote:
Experience Design
Experience Design is an approach to creating successful experiences for people in any medium. This approach includes consideration and design in all 3 spatial dimensions, over time, all 5 common senses, and interactivity, as well as customer value, personal meaning, and emotional context. Experience Design is not merely the design of Web pages or other interactive media or on-screen digital content. Designed experiences can be in any medium, including spatial/environmental installations, print products, hard products, services, broadcast images and sounds, live performances and events, digital and online media, etc.


In the same breath, I'd also argue that Nathan was making ARGs long before any of the characters running around this community were even thinking about the topic (ie, in 1995):

http://www.nathan.com/projects/1995/jm.html
http://www.nathan.com/projects/1995/rift.html

But that's my take in a post-ARG era, mind you. I know others are far less eager to "rethink their history" and realize that "ARG" didn't appear from a vacuum.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:43 am
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ariock
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
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Confused Rolling Eyes
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Locky!?

This seems more of a troll than someone asking real questions. The one about TINAG makes no sense. TINAG is about making the game not SEEM like a game, so as to maintain the altered "reality." It's not literal, which the OP seems to think.

And the bit about fantasy being a waste of time? And to think of all the time I wasted as a child reading Shakespeare! Oh well.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:14 pm
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krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 26 Sep 2002
Posts: 3651
Location: Is not Chicago

 		Brian Clark is the Heidi Klum of the Unforums. He has auf'd the term "ARG."

It's so hard to keep up, man. Who knew I was using the 'wrong' term? MAN OH MAN ALIVE, the acronyms are gonna kill me someday. My lifeless body will be discovered 'neath a pile of large capital letters, like a Sesame Street tragicomedy.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:37 pm
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