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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): Puzzles
[PUZZLE SOLVE!] Melissa's memories
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Shad0
I Have No Life


Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Posts: 2180
Location: Southern California, USA

 		Re: [PUZZLE SOLVE] Melissa's memories
Anonymous Coward wrote:
Melissa really wrote:

Didnt ... arent ... didnt ... Weve
...
Have you done anything out of character, she asked.

Not yet, I said. I hoped it was true.

Are the missing apostrophes definitely missing from the original? If anything, that's out of character - these entities have been quite fastidious with their grammar so far. Wink

Yes, they are. And you're right, that is a little odd. Especially since she's still using them in the first memory fragment.

Greene: "Omigod...the apostrophes are always the first thing to go!"
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:51 pm
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sherpa
Unfettered


Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 338
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 		Re: [PUZZLE SOLVE] Melissa's memories
Shad0 wrote:
Anonymous Coward wrote:

Are the missing apostrophes definitely missing from the original? If anything, that's out of character - these entities have been quite fastidious with their grammar so far. Wink

Yes, they are. And you're right, that is a little odd. Especially since she's still using them in the first memory fragment.


Indeed, I think it's a sign of this illness though. Just.. something out of place, something off-kilter.

Yawn. Bedtime now. Hope to see it solved in the morning Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:09 pm
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Jacqueline
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advinius wrote:
I mean, we've seen that the SP has had to learn how to communicate in our language and has called it very old fashioned.


When I originally read that I just figured we sound old-fashioned because the Princess must be from the future. Though actually, one thing I haven't really seen addressed is how the Operator (and presumably the ship) crashed into our time in the first place...

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:05 am
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GWing_02
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 		Well, since this thread's been dug up anyways:

Yeah, I would assume that old-fashioned means that she's from the future... I would say that alien cultures would view other languages perhaps as "primitive," not "old-fasioned," having no real reference point.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:14 am
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princeofthesword
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Joined: 12 Aug 2004
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 		I'll bite, Dorkmaster. I've been feeling all along that something's strange about the Castaway, and I keep telling everybody, loudly, but they just point and laugh. Heh no seriously, the best idea I've heard is that he was treating her so kindly simply to get an inside feel with her, help her to trust him and open up, maybe let something slip (this was under the assumption that he's an ONI spook and had something to do with Weedy).

But as I've pointed out, Halsey is the only person I've seen so far treat an AI with such respect. His seems either feigned, or pained, sorry it rhymes. The Castaway acts rather nostalgic, to me, as if Melissa reminded him of an old flame or something. Then again, he acts as though he's trying to get something from her, learn something, do something. He's appealing cleverly to everything she wants, it seems. Satan himself offering her a drink. Then again...and on it goes. Odysseus, I keep losing track of mention of that. Any thoughts?

One more question: when do we think the Castaway got aboard in the timeline? Before or after the object was found? Before or after the possible Covenant virus? I've looked but I can't find it stated clearly anywhere, and poor wiki. Farewell.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:00 am
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Shad0
I Have No Life


Joined: 20 Jun 2004
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 		Re: old-fashioned
Jacqueline wrote:
advinius wrote:
I mean, we've seen that the SP has had to learn how to communicate in our language and has called it very old fashioned.

When I originally read that I just figured we sound old-fashioned because the Princess must be from the future. Though actually, one thing I haven't really seen addressed is how the Operator (and presumably the ship) crashed into our time in the first place...

My thought is that, when the Sleeping Princess called the "way you talk" old-fashioned, she was referring specifically to the haiku, and not to speaking in English generally. Consider:

    * She got the style off of an entire page of "Hive-Ku" from Aunt Margaret.
    * Her comment about it being "old-fashioned" was embedded in margaret.jpg (almost as if it were addressed to Margaret).
    * The comment came in a haiku, ending "Now / I can do it too!"
    * Then all of the Princess's embedded comments were in haiku.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. Mr. Green
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:22 am
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Oh, It's Just Pawl...
Boot

Joined: 17 Aug 2004
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 		been a while, but here's my piece...
I posted this on another page but thought it fit here too....


AI's are flash cloned from people's brains. They have a Life time of about ten years before they start to degrade and basically think themselves to death. Is it possible that these locations are memories from the AI's "parent" brain? Is it possible that the AI was cloned from DANA sometime in the future? Is it possible that maybe now it's trying to reconnect with itself (Dana) through the website? Just some ideas...

Also, in the books Cortana is being chased by a covenant AI which she calls an assassin. What if this is a covenant AI that's a spy program that's got a glitch. Or maybe it's just collecting data for possible future drop spots.

While Coratana is being chased through the computers by the assassin she makes a copy of herself which makes a copy of itself. Unfortunately the copies aren't as good as the original (think Multiplicity). So what if the Queen/Widow/flea are all fragments or copies of one original program?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:04 am
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GWing_02
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Joined: 18 Aug 2004
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 		Re: been a while, but here's my piece...
Now with registered goodness! Very Happy

Oh, It's Just Pawl... wrote:
AI's are flash cloned from people's brains. They have a Life time of about ten years before they start to degrade and basically think themselves to death. Is it possible that these locations are memories from the AI's "parent" brain? Is it possible that the AI was cloned from DANA sometime in the future? Is it possible that maybe now it's trying to reconnect with itself (Dana) through the website? Just some ideas...

From what the books have told us, the AIs generally inherit not the whole of the brain, just their thought processes. Hence, Cortana's behavior is noted as slightly different than that of Dr. Halsey's, IIRC. So, I would say no to that suggestion.

Oh, It's Just Pawl... wrote:
Also, in the books Cortana is being chased by a covenant AI which she calls an assassin. What if this is a covenant AI that's a spy program that's got a glitch. Or maybe it's just collecting data for possible future drop spots.

The assassin was only at one point in First Strike, when they take over the Ascendant Justice. I don't recall her calling it an assassin, but I think any AI would want to destroy an AI invading your system. Recall also that Cortana ended up dissecting this Covenant AI (who was more of an annoyance, interrupting her thoughts, than a killer) to use as a base for translating the covenant messages. Hence, the AI couldn't be purely for assassination.

Oh, It's Just Pawl... wrote:
While Coratana is being chased through the computers by the assassin she makes a copy of herself which makes a copy of itself. Unfortunately the copies aren't as good as the original (think Multiplicity). So what if the Queen/Widow/flea are all fragments or copies of one original program?

...Uhm, this story fragment isn't exactly true. After dissecting the "assassin," if that's what you wish to call it, she found a copying program within its code. Being loaded down with the Halo data, but afraid to use the program without giving it a complete scan first, she first copied only a small, weakened portion of herself, to help translate the Covenant radio messages and analyzing the Covenant AI, or "assassin."
Later, when Master Chief attacked the Unyeilding Heiroplant, Cortana had no choice but to give M.C. a full-system copy of herself to take with him, as she still had to manage the Ascendant Justice. She used the program she'd taken off the Covenant AI, but was worried because she still hadn't scanned it for errors or virii.
Cortana's personality and behavior had already begun to go erratic at that point, being loaded down with massive amounts of the Halo data. While this data was of course stripped from the copy she made, the flaws beginning to show in her were magnified in the copy. Eventually, while in the Unyeilding Heiroplant, Cortana is attacked by hundreds of Covenant AI, who were security guards for the system. She had no choice but to make a copy of herself, and one thing led to another, and there ended up being hundred ot Cortanas, each flawed worse than the previous.

The chances that Melissa, if she is who she claims to be, also found the same program to use is slim, and even if she did, the facts don't match up-- the copied AIs may be flawed and fragmented, but they have exactly the same basic characteristics. We can clearly see that the Sleeping Princess, the Queen, and the Flea have different personalities.

Now to add my own spec- Dead object found in space -> Sleeping Princess wake up?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:25 pm
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Oh, It's Just Pawl...
Boot

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 		my bad... been a while since i read through the books, things weren't quite as clear. you're right. good information for everyone to have and imaginate about though.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:00 pm
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thebruce
Dances With Wikis


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 		If someone can take a look at the full text chronological compilation I wrote up, could you let me know if the memory fragments are in an acceptable order? I believe the positioning I've got is accurate, but it seems the precise ordering of some of the events is still in question... anyway, check the link in my sig to where the texts are...

If Bungie somehow connected active plot elements of the ilovebees arg with characters/events from the novels, then wow... IIRC, wasn't the Beast its own mystery, simply taking place in the same era with the same subject matter? If Cortana or game/novel characters are actually involved in this arg, than man, they put a lot of work into this, and to truly play the ARG, you really should read the books... I only just picked up the Flood, and I've had First Strike for a long time but haven't read it because I didn't have the Flood... so I just start reading book 2. Smile

Anyway... back on topic...
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 4:29 pm
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subatomicsatan
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 		Re: been a while, but here's my piece...
Oh, It's Just Pawl... wrote:
So what if the Queen/Widow/flea are all fragments or copies of one original program?


i have been thinking the same exact thing. in "first strike" cortana finds covenant computer code that copies AIs (or portions thereof), but this copying introduces errors causing what she thought was erratic behavior in the covenant AI (which, incidentally, acts a hell of alot like the pious flea).

in "first strike" (which i have not finished reading yet, so this may be addressed later in the book), the part i described above sounds very similar to what we're looking at...at the point i'm at in the book, we have cortana, a partial copy of cortana, and a sneaky covenant AI all in residence in the covenant flagship computer systems.

maybe a copied UNSC AI had errors which removed (among many other things) the cole protocols from its memory...so its first instinct may be to head back home, somewhere safe...i dunno, but it's fun to SPEC. Smile

anyway, the scene in the book reminded me of the SP, SPDR, PF thing.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:34 pm
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Motoss
Decorated


Joined: 06 Aug 2004
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 		None of the AI's in this ARG can possibly be a scan of Dana's brain from the future. The reason? Dana would have to live longer than any human ever has to live long enough for AI technology to be available. Halo DOES take place in the fairly far future.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:05 am
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sfsdfd
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Joined: 25 Jul 2004
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 		Re: been a while, but here's my piece...
GWing_02 wrote:
While this data was of course stripped from the copy she made, the flaws beginning to show in her were magnified in the copy.

there ended up being hundred ot Cortanas, each flawed worse than the previous.

Now that is completely ridiculous. (Not you, GWing, I mean the story line.)

One of the many great strengths of computers is that all data is digital - it's a 0 or a 1. If you copy any data and the copy isn't bit-for-bit identical, then you have a serious hardware failure.

I can swallow the part about flaws in an AI created from a human brain - these can be attributed to scanning inaccuracies, kind of like analog-to-digital signal drop. But whoever came up with this "flawed digital copies" story line needs to be beaten over the head with a copy of Tanenbaum's Modern Operating Systems. Evil or Very Mad

- David Stein

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:27 am
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subatomicsatan
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 		Re: been a while, but here's my piece...
sfsdfd wrote:
I can swallow the part about flaws in an AI created from a human brain - these can be attributed to scanning inaccuracies, kind of like analog-to-digital signal drop. But whoever came up with this "flawed digital copies" story line needs to be beaten over the head with a copy of Tanenbaum's Modern Operating Systems. Evil or Very Mad


what if it is genetic algorithm? Wink
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:38 am
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improvius
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Joined: 19 Aug 2004
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 		Re: been a while, but here's my piece...
You can have jitter when making digital copies of audio material. You can always have jitter problems, even with correction processes.

I assume this applies to data as well.


-Imp

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:50 am
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