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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » ARG: This Is My Milwaukee
[PUZZLE][SPEC] Map of Central Park
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MochaPixel
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Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 49

Everything seems to fit very nicely together, so I'm thinking we just need to wait for another clue/hint from the PMs to narrow things down.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:04 pm
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horkheimer
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Joined: 24 Nov 2008
Posts: 21
Location: Milwaukee

How did you guys come up with "PAWN" in the marker assigned to the pond on thebruce's central park map?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:02 pm
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Saprophyte
Boot


Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 13

underground?

I've been busy with work for the past week or so, so I've only been catching the highlights as you guys figure stuff out, but I was just wondering if anyone has considered the subway lines that run around and under Central Park?

I know the stations don't exactly fit the map, but they are "underground."

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:52 pm
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dposse
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Joined: 12 Nov 2006
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Location: CT

Re: underground?

Saprophyte wrote:
I've been busy with work for the past week or so, so I've only been catching the highlights as you guys figure stuff out, but I was just wondering if anyone has considered the subway lines that run around and under Central Park?

I know the stations don't exactly fit the map, but they are "underground."


that's actually a fairly good idea. Big T and others in NYC, what can you tell us about the Subway lines around Central Park? Are there any that go directly through the Baseball Field? How about those wavy lines, or those three lines? Could they be Subway Lines?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:05 pm
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niles
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Joined: 25 Nov 2008
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Location: Brookfield, WI

Re: underground?

dposse wrote:
Saprophyte wrote:
I've been busy with work for the past week or so, so I've only been catching the highlights as you guys figure stuff out, but I was just wondering if anyone has considered the subway lines that run around and under Central Park?

I know the stations don't exactly fit the map, but they are "underground."


that's actually a fairly good idea. Big T and others in NYC, what can you tell us about the Subway lines around Central Park? Are there any that go directly through the Baseball Field? How about those wavy lines, or those three lines? Could they be Subway Lines?


Looks like a few subway lines go on either side of Central Park. Here's a Google map mash up. (You can drag the map as long as you click outside of the dotted line surrounding the subway map)

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:54 pm
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dposse
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Joined: 12 Nov 2006
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Re: underground?

niles wrote:
dposse wrote:
Saprophyte wrote:
I've been busy with work for the past week or so, so I've only been catching the highlights as you guys figure stuff out, but I was just wondering if anyone has considered the subway lines that run around and under Central Park?

I know the stations don't exactly fit the map, but they are "underground."


that's actually a fairly good idea. Big T and others in NYC, what can you tell us about the Subway lines around Central Park? Are there any that go directly through the Baseball Field? How about those wavy lines, or those three lines? Could they be Subway Lines?


Looks like a few subway lines go on either side of Central Park. Here's a Google map mash up. (You can drag the map as long as you click outside of the dotted line surrounding the subway map)


Look between Hells Kitchen and the Upper West Side on the left side of Central Park. Doesn't that break in the red/purple subway lines look like the "wishbone" shaped lines in the Cafe Gratitude clue?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:07 pm
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dreamerblue
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

I'm curious about the shape of the artifact. American friends, does it remind of the shape of one of your States at all? I'm looking at a map of the States and the closest thing I can see is Oregon, but I thought the shape of the artifact was weird & wanted to play with the idea.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:04 pm
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EnsO
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Joined: 28 Nov 2008
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horkheimer wrote:
How did you guys come up with "PAWN" in the marker assigned to the pond on thebruce's central park map?


i was wondering this as well. doesn't look like any "pawn" i've ever seen. Anyone?

also, the 2010 link seems a bit forced to me? Americans do not write dates in this format. dates are written this way in Europe/ Asia/ Africa/ Caribbean (not Virgin Islands)/ Canada/ Mexico. granted the thumb print looks interesting along with the squiggly line in the SF piece, but some of the justifications here for the overall theory don't jive imho.

if we are overlaying the SF clue over a map/ photo of Central Park, what are the other bar type lines corresponding too?

not trying to rain on anyone's parade here, just taking the scientific approach. (the psych major in me, i suppose!)

also, Russo commented previously that the pg. 26 table would become important "eventually" he supposed, but he seemed to steer attention away from it a week or so ago.

thoughts?

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:00 pm
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Deanodon
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I'd say EnsO is correct, in that we were putting the X where we wanted it, and then finding justifications for putting it there.

I just spent 20 minutes searching for pawn symbols, and that isn't one at any of the chess websites I found (though I'm open to some reference that will tell me that it is).

The map as is doesn't take into account most of the numbers on the grid, nor does it deal with anything other than the star and the X on the fax.

And remember Chuck said, "Whoever finds it will spread it, and it will grow."

Now that could mean just that someone will find the drop and tell the rest of us, or it could mean that we've got to scale it larger.

It's hard to pronounce a puzzle solved, then realize the solution wasn't the correct one and have to start all over, but maybe we should go back to the overlays and look at them with a fresh eye.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:08 pm
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horkheimer
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Joined: 24 Nov 2008
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Location: Milwaukee

That looked more like a book to me.. not sure what that means with the "D" after it though.. Although "Book D" is the formal name for the DVD-R specification.. Seems pretty out there,though.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:51 pm
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Saprophyte
Boot


Joined: 03 Dec 2008
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Backtracking

I sort of think EnsO is right; maybe we need to backtrack a little bit.

Chuck said that the woman in his dream said "Somewhere quiet, somewhere under. A little, a little. A trifle. Whoever finds it will spread it, and it will grow." That seems clearly to refer to the SF Paper; one person found it, posted on the internet, and it grew.

Then she says "This table, this seat, under. Reunion." Obviously the first part is instructions to find the SF Paper. And the second part seems to be instructions for what to do with it. So, we reunite it with something.

I can understand "reuniting" it with the fax. The dark dollar symbols seem to almost act as register marks to help us line up the two papers.

What I'm not so sure about is then overlaying this onto the grid on pg. 26 of the M:ARH handbook. The 7 and (part of a ) 2 seem to be in the right place, but the numbers aren't even in the same font. And we don't really even know if that is a "2." It could be a "Z" for all we know.

Now, there is a good case for a Central Park connection; the emerald coffin and the Emerald Nut Run can be reconciled directly with the evidence from the TIMM video itself. They are in Central Park, talking about emeralds and "You aren't going to dig there, are you?" and so on.... And the time for the midnight run coincides nicely with the time indicated by M:ARH pg. 27.

So, since we have all these connections to Central Park, why do we need to overlay the SF Paper/Fax combo onto the Doleful City pg. 26 chart AND then onto maps of Central Park?

EDIT: Not only is the link between the SF Paper/Fax AND the Doleful City chart tenuous, but the links between the Doleful City chart and Central Park seem REALLY tenuous to me. The 2010 could just be a reference to the Leo's Hair sign, after all.

It was a great idea, but I think it was just a hypothesis, as EnsO and Deanodon have pointed out, and now it isn't panning out.

I'm advocating backing up to the overlay of SF Paper/Fax and seeing if we can interpret it in a new, different direction.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:30 pm
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PostLarval
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Location: 32° 43'N, 117° 10'W (give or take)

To be clear, there are two different interpretations of how to overlay the chart/fax/SF Drop on Central Park. The one I initially proposed utilizes the chart not as an exact layover, but as a portrayal of significant landmarks that would simply lead us to this location. In addition, it only uses the portion of the chart that is framed by the fax and SF drop (if the rest were relevant I think it would also fit within the boundaries of the fax). I posted all this this as spec in the initial puzzle thread, though I didn't draw a detailed map of what I was trying to get across. So I've included one below.

What first drew my attention to New York was the 3 parallel diagonal lines. Assuming we had a map, I figured these must represent streets... and I remembered that New York City streets don't run directly N/S - E/W, but at this same angle. I also thought that the 'wishbone' toward the center might represent a street, so I looked to Central Park knowing that it had winding roads. From there I deduced the following:

The SF Drop (in blue)
-The city streets next to the park match the parallel diagonal lines
-The intersection of W 79th Transverse Rd and East Drive matches the 'wishbone'
-The two circular paths in the lower left corner of the map match the two 0s

The Chart (in red)
-84th street is in the upper left of the map and matches 84 on the chart
-(pointed out by Flaming Sheep) Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis Reservoir may fit with 2010, as she married Onassis on the 20th of October. (It may also be worth noting that she lived in an apartment on 5th Avenue which is less than 2 blocks north of the Museum of Art, and looks down on both the Museum and the Reservoir).
-In the center of the map can be found, from left to right, the Turtle Pond, The Art Museum (Metropolitan), and the Upper East Side. Which matches with T, A, U on the chart.

The Fax (in purple)
-The oval marked with an X on the fax fits over the Great Lawn when viewed in relation to the SF drop (above the 'wishbone') and when viewed in relation to the chart (to the upper left of the A - for Art).

And finally- when I decided the X might represent the Great Lawn, I remembered that the final scene of the video (with Terry Nanny talking to the Treasure Hunter) appears to have been shot right in that spot.

Note that it was the SF drop which originally made me focus on Central Park, and that the SF drop 'reunited' with the fax (independent of the chart) makes a strong case for this location.

Now as I originally pointed out, this does not account for ALL data given. And as I said above, I don't view the data to be an EXACT layover... rather, significant markers that would lead us to Central Park. Altogether it's fairly convincing... but I don't claim it's the be-all end-all solution. I encourage everyone to question it, and if you feel it's wrong, to find something that more accurately fits. Or if you agree, to fill in any missing pieces.
centralparkmap.jpg
 Description   Central Park Diagram
 Filesize   216.5KB
 Viewed   103 Time(s)

centralparkmap.jpg

thebruceoverlay.jpg
 Description   Chart/Fax/SF Drop (courtesy thebruce)
 Filesize   63.78KB
 Viewed   88 Time(s)

thebruceoverlay.jpg

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:25 pm
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teufelsdrochk
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Joined: 11 Aug 2008
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Deanodon wrote:
It's hard to pronounce a puzzle solved, then realize the solution wasn't the correct one and have to start all over, but maybe we should go back to the overlays and look at them with a fresh eye.


If this were the correct solution, the PM surely would have expected us to take longer to get it. We had it within 5 hours of the SF drop. Like in science, we're attracted to the most elegant solution--and like in science, nature may or may not care for elegance.

Kind of reminds me of a hypothesis that the most addictive games draw on people's need to order things. Tetris, Pacman, Snood--they're all games that make you put stuff in order. We hit this explanation that cover literally all the ambiguous things on p26/27 and even explained a section of the video...I sure WISH it's the correct solution.

In any event, looks like UF is the default info source for this arg, and from a short cruise around the internets the audience seems to be growing. So we're the bleeding edge folks.

Not sure where else to put this, but one milwaukeean posted:Nov. 24, 2008, 12:14 p.m.
My friend in Chicago emailed me this link. Wow. It was covered on a news station too (foxnews?).

Does any1 have confirmation of this? Itd be fun to see.

/EDIT/ I'm sure the bb/uf overlap is big but http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4L7DooT5T4
deserves to be famous

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:27 pm
Last edited by teufelsdrochk on Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:40 pm; edited 3 times in total
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EnsO
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Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 205

PostLarval wrote:
To be clear, there are two different interpretations of how to overlay the chart/fax/SF Drop on Central Park. The one I initially proposed utilizes the chart not as an exact layover, but as a portrayal of significant landmarks that would simply lead us to this location. In addition, it only uses the portion of the chart that is framed by the fax and SF drop (if the rest were relevant I think it would also fit within the boundaries of the fax). I posted all this this as spec in the initial puzzle thread, though I didn't draw a detailed map of what I was trying to get across. So I've included one below.

What first drew my attention to New York was the 3 parallel diagonal lines. Assuming we had a map, I figured these must represent streets... and I remembered that New York City streets don't run directly N/S - E/W, but at this same angle. I also thought that the 'wishbone' toward the center might represent a street, so I looked to Central Park knowing that it had winding roads. From there I deduced the following:

The SF Drop (in blue)
-The city streets next to the park match the parallel diagonal lines
-The intersection of W 79th Transverse Rd and East Drive matches the 'wishbone'
-The two circular paths in the lower left corner of the map match the two 0s

The Chart (in red)
-84th street is in the upper left of the map and matches 84 on the chart
-(pointed out by Flaming Sheep) Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis Reservoir may fit with 2010, as she married Onassis on the 20th of October. (It may also be worth noting that she lived in an apartment on 5th Avenue which is less than 2 blocks north of the Museum of Art, and looks down on both the Museum and the Reservoir).
-In the center of the map can be found, from left to right, the Turtle Pond, The Art Museum (Metropolitan), and the Upper East Side. Which matches with T, A, U on the chart.

The Fax (in purple)
-The oval marked with an X on the fax fits over the Great Lawn when viewed in relation to the SF drop (above the 'wishbone') and when viewed in relation to the chart (to the upper left of the A - for Art).

And finally- when I decided the X might represent the Great Lawn, I remembered that the final scene of the video (with Terry Nanny talking to the Treasure Hunter) appears to have been shot right in that spot.

Note that it was the SF drop which originally made me focus on Central Park, and that the SF drop 'reunited' with the fax (independent of the chart) makes a strong case for this location.

Now as I originally pointed out, this does not account for ALL data given. And as I said above, I don't view the data to be an EXACT layover... rather, significant markers that would lead us to Central Park. Altogether it's fairly convincing... but I don't claim it's the be-all end-all solution. I encourage everyone to question it, and if you feel it's wrong, to find something that more accurately fits. Or if you agree, to fill in any missing pieces.


all well and good. however, you have not addressed the issues raised earlier today by myself and others. namely. this theory does not fit the criteria as presented. secondly, the theory has been proven wrong by R/L investigation.

i personally love the Great Lawn aspect. past that, this is just rampant speculation as i see it. ymmv...

Edit: to quote Deanodon, the "x" has been placed and some are now trying to justify the theory in correlation. i may be in the minority, but i just don't see the legitimacy here...

peace...

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:34 pm
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PostLarval
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Joined: 16 Nov 2004
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Location: 32° 43'N, 117° 10'W (give or take)

EnsO wrote:
all well and good. however, you have not addressed the issues raised earlier today by myself and others. namely. this theory does not fit the criteria as presented. secondly, the theory has been proven wrong by R/L investigation.

i personally love the Great Lawn aspect. past that, this is just rampant speculation as i see it. ymmv...


What I provided above was only my original theory, as originally posted, which helped kicked off further speculation. I put it here, in concise form, just to help clarify how we got to where we're at (because it never made it's way into this particular thread).

I didn't attempt to address anything anyone else has said, either for or against this theory. But I'll take a moment now to do so (though I think a lot of it may have actually been covered).

EnsO wrote:
doesn't look like any "pawn" i've ever seen. Anyone?

As I mentioned above, the fax and SF drop cover only a specific portion of the chart. I believe only that part may be relevant. This (the symbol being referred to as a 'pawn') lies outside of those boundaries, and at least to me doesn't appear important in any solve.

EnsO wrote:
also, the 2010 link seems a bit forced to me?

Agreed. This wasn't something I originally saw, but was suggested to me afterward. It alone wouldn't mean much, but it's interesting in the context of a complete puzzle and a 'link' at least worth noting.

EnsO wrote:
if we are overlaying the SF clue over a map/ photo of Central Park, what are the other bar type lines corresponding too?

As I noted above, these other bars are what drew my attention to New York in the first place. The city streets there do not run North to South and East to West, but at almost this precise angle (due to the orientation of Long Island). These bars are a perfect representation of this.

EnsO wrote:
also, Russo commented previously that the pg. 26 table would become important "eventually" he supposed, but he seemed to steer attention away from it a week or so ago

He said this in an e-mail to someone about two weeks ago (which was posted Dec 6th), while we were trying to make heads or tails of the M:ARH booklet. His exact words-
Mike Russo (via e-mail) wrote:
It's that f***ing SECOND TABLE that almost got me fired; I mean the first table will be important eventually I guess, but the SECOND f***, f***, F***! Those f***ing empty cells and all out of order.

At that time they were trying to get us to focus on and solve the second table. I think it's reasonable that the first table may now be in play.

Deanodon wrote:
I'd say EnsO is correct, in that we were putting the X where we wanted it, and then finding justifications for putting it there.

I don't think this is the case. As I noted above, I found my way to the X by putting a lot of other pieces together, and only in the end realized the connection between the video and the Great Lawn.

Deanodon wrote:
The map as is doesn't take into account most of the numbers on the grid.

I just don't think that most of the numbers on the chart are relevant (those that don't fit within the boundaries of the fax and the SF drop). The fax very specifically frames only one area of the grid. If anyone can find any real world scenario that applies all of the random information from that chart, I'll be thoroughly impressed! Drinks on me =)

Saprophyte wrote:
I can understand "reuniting" it with the fax. The dark dollar symbols seem to almost act as register marks to help us line up the two papers. What I'm not so sure about is then overlaying this onto the grid on pg. 26 of the M:ARH handbook.

When you look at the overlay of the fax and SF drop ONLY (see my previous post), it can make an even more accurate and less complicated case for this same location.

EnsO wrote:
this theory does not fit the criteria as presented.

I have no idea what you mean by this. The only things we've been presented are a few random symbols on a few different pieces of paper. I wish the PMs had presented us with more specific criteria!

EnsO wrote:
the theory has been proven wrong by R/L investigation.

How has the theory as I proposed it been proven wrong? It's only a suggestion of a location.

The main problem, as I see it, is that an assumption of a 'drop' developed out of the theory of a location. The location has some evidence that leads us there, but there is nothing yet to suggest that we should be headed out looking for anything. I'm not saying that we shouldn't... just that we shouldn't be surprised if we find nothing, because we haven't been told to look for anything.

And that being the case... saying that a search of the area yielded nothing, so the Central Park theory must be invalid, is more of a rush to judgment than saying Central Park might be the location, because 'a, b, and c' appear to fit.

There is also a disagreement about whether or not any 'map' that the chart/fax/SF drop form should be interpreted as a literal 'tracing paper' overlay of a real world location, or whether the drawings on this 'map' should be interpreted as symbols which point toward a real world location. I believe the latter is the case, but would be more than happy if someone finds an exact 'this fits perfectly onto this' scenario, for any spot in the world.

All that said- I completely agree that slowing down and backing up is needed. My suggestion: use your 5 Ws.

-WHAT do the Chart and Fax and SF Drop represent?

If we go with a MAP:
-WHERE does this map lead us?
-WHY does it lead us there?
-WHEN are we supposed to be there?
-WHAT are we supposed to do there?
-(and possibly)WHO are we supposed to meet there?

At the moment, I'm only as far as maybe somewhere in Central Park, maybe on the 1st of January (because of the solution to the second chart). Maybe on the Great Lawn (though the X doesn't have to mean 'look here').

Given that the PMs aren't breathing down our necks about this- we probably either have some time to work it out, or we're on the right track. Either way, I'd love for someone to present a different theory, or put forward anything new that upholds/discounts what we've got so far.

Edited for language, ambiguity, and excessive use of adverbs =) -PL
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:24 pm
Last edited by PostLarval on Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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