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 Forum index » Meta » General META Discussion
Calling all Beekeepers (and other ARG players)
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MrToasty
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 4310
Location: Des Moines, IA

 		Calling all Beekeepers (and other ARG players)
Invitation to an upcoming discussion of ILB and ARGs with a university graduate class
I was recently contacted by a new UF member (witsEkr) with regards to Jane McGonigal's 2007 article on I Love Bees. witsEkr is studying the article as part of a graduate level course in video game theory and is interested in having Beekeepers and other ARG vets join a discussion with the class in April. From witsEkr:
Quote:
This is for a graduate class called Instructional Simulations and Games at the University of North Dakota and we are discussing I Love Bees as part of our discussion of ARGs and collective intelligence. We are looking for some first person accounts of participation in ILB and perhaps of ARGs in general. We are studying various types of games and their potential instructional applications as well as a good dose of video game history and theory. We are scheduled to discuss ARGs and the article on I Love Bees on April 20.

We are VERY interested in talking to the Beekeepers. We are interested in either a live chat or live conversation by phone via Adobe connect. The possible dates for this would be April 20 or 27 (Mondays) anytime between 4 and 7 p.m. central time. Alternately, I could post questions to a discussion board and have an asynchronous discussion/interview anytime between April 13 and 27.

Final details for the discussion are not nailed down yet, so suggestions are welcome especially with regard to format (chat, call-in, discussion board, etc.). If you would be interested in joining, please reply to this topic so we can get an idea as to the number of folks to expect to aid in planning. Thanks!

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:49 pm
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redct
Entrenched


Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 1233

 		My suggestion would go to Skype chat
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:07 pm
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Lovek
Unfettered


Joined: 02 Mar 2005
Posts: 434

 		Re: Calling all Beekeepers (and other ARG players)
Invitation to an upcoming discussion of ILB and ARGs with a university graduate class
Can we eff with them and launch a new ARG mid-discussion?

They might like it.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:33 pm
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MrToasty
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 4310
Location: Des Moines, IA

 		Re: Calling all Beekeepers (and other ARG players)
Invitation to an upcoming discussion of ILB and ARGs with a university graduate class
Lovek wrote:
Can we eff with them and launch a new ARG mid-discussion?

They might like it.

Ooh, sorta like StopTarpArg this week? Now that would be fun.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:39 pm
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

 		Maybe they could post some questions in advance, so that people who might not be available for a skype or other chat can participate? They also might be interested in reading the article that Henry Jenkins wrote about ilb:

Chasing Bees Without the Hive Mind
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:45 pm
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catherwood
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee

Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 4109
Location: Silicon Valley, CA

 		I would like very much to participate. Being the #beekeepers chat room moderator scarred me for life made a lasting impression on me.

I do not do skype. Mondays are my busiest day at work, but the afternoon might work out with an IRC channel running at my desk. Asynchronous Q&A on a forum thread is certainly a working solution, and they are welcome to message me here to my inbox or send me email for follow-ups.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:51 pm
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Oriza
Entrenched


Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 1078
Location: Michigan and Florida

 		That'd be sweet. I was never a Beekeeper, but I'd love to discuss ARGs with a newcomer. Can we get a specific date/time soon?

EDIT: I just read the article MrToasty posted. Fascinating!
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:24 am
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witsEkr
Boot

Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 40

 		ILB Discussion
Hi everyone!

Thought I'd post a reply and let you know what the status of the UND games class discussion is. As you may or may not know, UND is located in Grand Forks, ND which is currently in the midst of a rather serious flood. So far the city is OK (nothing like the devastating flood/fire of 1997), but Fargo, ND 70 miles south is not in as good of shape. The university here has called off classes until March 31 so that our students and faculty can help with sandbagging efforts in Fargo and other communities, which has pushed a lot of things back.

In light of all this, here is a possible proposal for the ILB discussion:

Those that are able could join us live along with our distance students via Adobe connect on Monday, April 27 at 5:00 p.m. central time. (I can give you the access information via e-mail - all you need is a phone line and internet connection) We would be especially interested in speaking to people who were directly involved in ILB (in any capacity) with particular interest in anyone involved in the pay phone part of the game. (If you know of anyone who may be interested, please have them message me here at unfiction.)

For those who are unable to join live, but would be willing to answer questions about ILB or ARGs in general, I could post some questions generated by our class on this forum (or a new one?) by April 20 and share the responses with the class on the 27th.

Please send me a message ASAP if you are able to join live and pass the word to others so that we can proceed.

Thank you so much for your interest in this project - my classmates and I really appreciate this opportunity!

witsEkr

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:17 pm
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

 		I don't think that I can join the discussion, but I am happy to answer questions. I was as involved with ilb as almost anyone else here, though I didn't answer phones. I'm sure you will get a number of responses to your questions. I think all the beekeepers are proud of playing ilb and love to share with others.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:43 pm
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witsEkr
Boot

Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 40

 		ARG Live Discussion
Thank you all for your interest in our upcoming ARG discussion. Here is the plan:

The live discussion will take place on Monday, April 27 at 5:00 p.m. CDT. Those that are able can send me a direct message here and I will give you the log in information. (If you know other beekeepers that have not posted here, please pass the word - we'd like a few more!)

For those that cannot join the live discussion I will post several questions (related both to ILB and ARGs in general) generated by my classmates to this forum by April 15. We would like to have answers to these by April 27 as well.

If you could help me out and pass the word to other players regarding this discussion, I would really appreciate it! Look for questions here soon!

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:28 pm
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witsEkr
Boot

Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 40

 		Questions for ILB Players
These are questions generated by students in the Instructional Simulations and Games class. I will post them in 3 sections: 1) Specific to ILB, 2) For ARG players in general, and 3) For Puppet Masters.
Please answer as many as you can by posting to this forum. Also, please quote the question(s) in your reply. I will collect the responses on April 27.

For players of I Love Bees:

1. How is it that you got involved in I Love Bees? Did you see the website address on the Halo 2 trailer? Or did you hear about it from a friend?

2. One of the individuals in the CI mentioned that he just was a lurker on the site for a long time until he saw something he could contribute to. My questions is, what approximate percentage of people do you feel were actual active participants in the CI? Also, for the lurkers who became active members of the CI, what was the motivating factor?

3. In I Love Bees, you truly had to work together as a collective intelligence. In the pay phone section of the game, you were put into groups. Did you ever feel after the pay phone episode that you wanted to be an individual "mind" again? If so, what did you do about it? If not, why not? What kept you involved in the CI?

4. In I love Bees, did you ever feel that in solving the GPS coordinates problem that you were lost in the thousands of other people playing the game? How frustrating was it sorting through the thousands of posts to get "good ideas"?

5. During the game, were there ever individuals that for one reason or another seemed to not have the best interests of the group as a whole in mind? Perhaps some individuals either purposely or not purposely did things that got in the way of achieving the overall goal? If so, how were these types of people dealt with?

6. Did you experience any culturally related difficulties in ILB? How were cultural differences manifested and resolved?

PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:31 am
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

 		1. I was here when Steve Peters, then of ARGN, got the package with the bottle of honey and the letters ilovebees in it. That preceded the release of the trailer. Jane used to have images of making the bottles on her website.

2. No idea about numbers. I was never a lurker.

3. We were never put into groups. I'm not sure what the question means. Perhaps you are referring to the voluntary, self-organized groups of phone answerers that developed? Some players used the forums to create groups of players to answer the phones, DC was one of the most successful.

4. DarkForge solved the GPS puzzle for us every time and posted the results on the forums. Other people worked on them too, but I remember him the most. I don't think that each person individually solved the GPS problems; I know I didn't.

5. They had to walk the plank Wink Joking, I don't know of anyone who didn't have the best interest of the group in mind. I know that weephun gave out information about where the Sleeping Princess was hiding to Melissa, but I dont' think he didn't have the best interest of the group in mind.

More importantly , you need to understand that diversity of opinions and ideas is the foundation of the collective intelligence of ARGs. There is no concept of "dealing with" people who do their own thing. Maybe you need to play games to really understand this concept? The worst aspect a group or community can have with respect to collective intelligence is a need to control what other people think or do. When we disagree, we talk about it, sometimes angrily and obsessively, but we don't cast out anyone who doesn't agree. People need to understand that collective intelligence isn't a group of believers where people all think the same way, like some kind of shiny happy cult. Collective intelligence is each individual bringing themselves to the community and working together. More like a rampaging mongol horde than an organzied army...if that makes sense.

6. I don't understand this question. So, probably, my answer is no.
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Mankind was my business, the common good was my business.~ Dickens

PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:57 pm
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Shad0
I Have No Life


Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Posts: 2180
Location: Southern California, USA

 		Re: Questions for ILB Players
Survey says...
witsEkr wrote:
1. How is it that you got involved in I Love Bees? Did you see the website address on the Halo 2 trailer? Or did you hear about it from a friend?

I guess the latter. I was (and still am) a subscriber to the Yahoo! group "cloudmakers-moderated," which reposted significant messages relating to the A.I. web-game commonly known as "The Beast" back in 2001. On July 24, 2004, the group reposted a message from Steve Peters suggesting that the long-hoped-for Beast II might have arrived. He linked to the trailer and to http://www.ilovebees.com. I followed the links, and was hooked almost immediately despite being a couple of weeks late to the party.

witsEkr wrote:
2. One of the individuals in the CI mentioned that he just was a lurker on the site for a long time until he saw something he could contribute to. My questions is, what approximate percentage of people do you feel were actual active participants in the CI? Also, for the lurkers who became active members of the CI, what was the motivating factor?

I consider myself to have been a fairly active participant; I don't recall lurking for any significant period before jumping in with both feet. I do know -- or at any rate have repeatedly heard -- that the ratio of active participants to lurkers was shockingly low, based on things like keeping track of the number of unique-IP hits on the web site. Not everyone who followed ILB signed up here at UF; not everyone who signed up here posted here; and not everyone who posted here was really active.

witsEkr wrote:
3. In I Love Bees, you truly had to work together as a collective intelligence. In the pay phone section of the game, you were put into groups. Did you ever feel after the pay phone episode that you wanted to be an individual "mind" again? If so, what did you do about it? If not, why not? What kept you involved in the CI?

I think I disagree with the premise underlying this question. I never felt that working together collectively or working in groups made me less of an individual "mind" at any point. It was still me, participating and contributing what I could.

witsEkr wrote:
4. In I love Bees, did you ever feel that in solving the GPS coordinates problem that you were lost in the thousands of other people playing the game? How frustrating was it sorting through the thousands of posts to get "good ideas"?

I assume that, by "solving the GPS coordinates problem," you mean figuring out what to do with the GPS coordinates before the payphones started ringing. (Otherwise rose is right: DarkForge did all the work on actually decoding the GPS coordinates every week.) I don't think I felt "lost" in the sense you mean, because I don't remember having any particular desire to stand out among the numerous other people trying to solve the puzzle. I mean, it would have been lovely if I'd managed to be the one who came up with the solution, of course, but in the absence of that sort of contribution I didn't feel as if I were compelled somehow to impose my individuality on anyone else. If I had something to say, I posted it; anyone who read the post could glance to the left and see that it came from me. I wasn't trying to develop a unique voice or character or anything like that; that wasn't the point.

Don't get me wrong. My ego is at least as large as anyone else's -- and probably considerably larger -- and recognition from others is great. (That's one of the reasons I've always maintained that proper credit for solves is really important.) But I interpret your question as wanting to know whether, in the absence of actually coming up with a solve or making some other major contribution, a player would feel left out of the game. And all I can say is that I hope not.

As for sorting through thousands of posts, that's always frustrating. On the other hand, you never know which post is going to contain the "aha!" we need, or some other idea that triggers a new thought for you. I dealt with it by checking back frequently, so that I usually didn't have more than a couple of pages on which to catch up even when there was a particularly intense flurry of activity.

witsEkr wrote:
5. During the game, were there ever individuals that for one reason or another seemed to not have the best interests of the group as a whole in mind? Perhaps some individuals either purposely or not purposely did things that got in the way of achieving the overall goal? If so, how were these types of people dealt with?

Heh. A question asked like someone who's heard the word "weephun" before. Mr. Green I firmly believe that weephun (who, in the unlikely event you don't actually know, turned over a very sympathetic childlike AI called the Sleeping Princess to her rather merciless enemy, Melissa) acted in what he felt were the best interests of the group as a whole. Melissa was established as a powerful AI who demanded loyalty from her crew; weephun demonstrated that loyalty by aiding her in her efforts to track down and capture another AI that Melissa viewed as rogue. Sure, most everyone hated him for it, but I don't believe for a second that he was trying to get in the way of the overall goal.

There were a couple of hijack attempts, as I recall. For example, some people "borrowed" the distinctive countdown code and stuck it on unrelated sites, probably in an effort to drive traffic to them. In general the UF folks seemed to be pretty reliable about identifying these false leads and letting everyone know that they weren't part of the ARG.

On one occasion a player found a handwritten note at a payphone, suggesting that she should go to a certain location at a certain time. It turned out that the note had nothing to do with the ARG, and when the PMs found out about it they had one of the characters call that player to tell her that the note had not come from her or anyone else she knew.

And of course, like any forum, UF has its share of trolls. Some people will always delight in making deliberately antagonistic posts to try to provoke negative reactions from other players. (I remember a truly hilarious occasion when ScarpeGrosse went back and edited all of the profanity out of a particularly offensive post, replacing it all with compliments and flowers and puppies and such.) Most of the time the best way to deal with trolls is just to ignore them until they get bored and go away, and we'd usually end up doing that. Err, eventually.

witsEkr wrote:
6. Did you experience any culturally related difficulties in ILB? How were cultural differences manifested and resolved?

Not that I recall. Perhaps because player communication was primarily through this written medium, which seems to minimize things like language barriers ('cos most everyone posts in English) and stereotypes based on race or gender ('cos no one knows what anyone else looks like).
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:30 pm
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