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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » ARG: Something in the Sea
[Viral] "There's Something In The Sea" - Bioshock 2?
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Dread Cthulhu
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Robbs wrote:
Not much new in this update, just a summary of what Meltzer found out about Lutwidge, and a new message from Lynch


Yeah, but there are things we can add to Melter's list.

A) OOL is somehow associated with Andrew Ryan, be it employee, partner or co-conspirator. Based on the anagrams, OOL has an unhealthy relationship / fascination / obsession with Andrew Ryan.

B) I think that both Roget and Lynch are right -- OOL is a trickster, but sometimes his tricks are deadly.

C) We can infer that he left to go to Rapture, but we don't know how -- what route?

D) He left suddenly, but before the civil war in Rapture. Reasons? Ryan calling in an ally, someone who could turn the materials in Rapture into weapons and robots? Someone to help him with... what -- he had Suchong and Tenenbaum to work the Adam / Eve / plasmid business... Presumably he was working in the background, since none of the others saw fit to mention him in an audio-log...

E) Based on the descriptions, OOL had a manufacturing facility (lost in a fire of unknown cause -- set by a splicer with an incinerate plasmid??), a warehouse on the waterfront (how close and how large?), a duplex in Queens (half living quarters, half home workshop??) and a building on Park Ave (publishing house offices??).

Based on Meltzer's list, most of OOL's effects were in the manufacturing facility, so what's in the warehouse??

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:42 pm
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Dread Cthulhu
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SageGrey wrote:
going off topic for a sec...

i'm looking to make a "bioshock mix" playlist on my ipod of music that would fit the idea of Rapture (mid to late 50's, slow and jazzy music).

so far i got:

Beyond The Sea by Bobby Darrin
Papa Loves Mambo by Perry Como
Sea of Love by Phil Phillips
Sleepwalk by Santo and Johnny

any other suggestions? message me here or send me a message on XBL, my tag is in my sig, Shepherd Grey.


Another one from the game -- Bei Mir bist du schoen. (yeah, I know -- I'm missing the umlauts...)

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:02 pm
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SageGrey
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Dread Cthulhu wrote:
Yeah, but there are things we can add to Melter's list.

A) OOL is somehow associated with Andrew Ryan, be it employee, partner or co-conspirator. Based on the anagrams, OOL has an unhealthy relationship / fascination / obsession with Andrew Ryan.

B) I think that both Roget and Lynch are right -- OOL is a trickster, but sometimes his tricks are deadly.

C) We can infer that he left to go to Rapture, but we don't know how -- what route?

D) He left suddenly, but before the civil war in Rapture. Reasons? Ryan calling in an ally, someone who could turn the materials in Rapture into weapons and robots? Someone to help him with... what -- he had Suchong and Tenenbaum to work the Adam / Eve / plasmid business... Presumably he was working in the background, since none of the others saw fit to mention him in an audio-log...

E) Based on the descriptions, OOL had a manufacturing facility (lost in a fire of unknown cause -- set by a splicer with an incinerate plasmid??), a warehouse on the waterfront (how close and how large?), a duplex in Queens (half living quarters, half home workshop??) and a building on Park Ave (publishing house offices??).

Based on Meltzer's list, most of OOL's effects were in the manufacturing facility, so what's in the warehouse??


the new page from Meltzer has some new info to take into account...

1. the import/export wharehouse is listed on the invoice from a day or two ago as "S. Sov.", and was noted on his new page as "Scarlet Soverign?" (read: Red Queen)

2. the new appearance of another anagram of Andrew Ryan, now seen in the "Warden Yarn" company...

3. the cryptograph book is listed as published in 1947, right around the time of the first wave of people moving to Rapture. one can suppose that OOL and Ryan had been acquaintedfor some time at this point, to include Ryan in his puzzles... Which goes back to the idea that the wharehouse could have been a staging area for supplies to be brought to Rapture...

4. Meltzer sees that OOL Had investigated the disappearances around 1956-58, over 10 years after he wrote the book, which leads right back to point 3...

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:31 am
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Dread Cthulhu
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SageGrey wrote:
Dread Cthulhu wrote:
Yeah, but there are things we can add to Melter's list.

A) OOL is somehow associated with Andrew Ryan, be it employee, partner or co-conspirator. Based on the anagrams, OOL has an unhealthy relationship / fascination / obsession with Andrew Ryan.

B) I think that both Roget and Lynch are right -- OOL is a trickster, but sometimes his tricks are deadly.

C) We can infer that he left to go to Rapture, but we don't know how -- what route?

D) He left suddenly, but before the civil war in Rapture. Reasons? Ryan calling in an ally, someone who could turn the materials in Rapture into weapons and robots? Someone to help him with... what -- he had Suchong and Tenenbaum to work the Adam / Eve / plasmid business... Presumably he was working in the background, since none of the others saw fit to mention him in an audio-log...

E) Based on the descriptions, OOL had a manufacturing facility (lost in a fire of unknown cause -- set by a splicer with an incinerate plasmid??), a warehouse on the waterfront (how close and how large?), a duplex in Queens (half living quarters, half home workshop??) and a building on Park Ave (publishing house offices??).

Based on Meltzer's list, most of OOL's effects were in the manufacturing facility, so what's in the warehouse??


the new page from Meltzer has some new info to take into account...

1. the import/export wharehouse is listed on the invoice from a day or two ago as "S. Sov.", and was noted on his new page as "Scarlet Soverign?" (read: Red Queen)

2. the new appearance of another anagram of Andrew Ryan, now seen in the "Warden Yarn" company...

3. the cryptograph book is listed as published in 1947, right around the time of the first wave of people moving to Rapture. one can suppose that OOL and Ryan had been acquaintedfor some time at this point, to include Ryan in his puzzles... Which goes back to the idea that the wharehouse could have been a staging area for supplies to be brought to Rapture...

4. Meltzer sees that OOL Had investigated the disappearances around 1956-58, over 10 years after he wrote the book, which leads right back to point 3...


Okay... "combine the parts" time.

Taking 1, 2, A and E, perhaps those shell / front companies involving anagrams of the name Andrew Ryan were companies used in the construction and initial supply of Rapture, fed through the "Scarlet Sovereign" warehouse. OOL is more important in the construction of Rapture than I considered --as noted in 3 above, the book was published in 1947, around the same time as the first wave of "colonists" to Rapture.

Hypothesis: OOL, while perhaps not a full partner and perhaps not even 100% "in the know" was one of Ryan's "agents" OOL saw himself as "the opener of the way" -- the gate-keeper to Rapture -- at least by the time he left the tape.

Combining A and B and a few other things neither of us have touched upon, OOL is also the "closer of the way." He is more than willing to deny a "pilgrim" direction, as he did in the case of Celeste Roget. Perhaps OOL's "investigations" were simply disinformation -- if he was as involved with Rapture as deeply as it would seem at this point, his need to "investigate" would be limited and, if he were truly one of Ryan's co-conspirators, he'd almost certainly was to mislead others as to the true nature of "The Vanishing."

Going back to the note from the lunchbox -- it looks like Mark's daughter's work but could be forged... we know from Lynch that OOL is a clever forger. OOL's past behavior is a problem -- how much is real and an how much is OOL's game?

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:53 am
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SageGrey
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Dread Cthulhu wrote:
Okay... "combine the parts" time.

Taking 1, 2, A and E, perhaps those shell / front companies involving anagrams of the name Andrew Ryan were companies used in the construction and initial supply of Rapture, fed through the "Scarlet Sovereign" warehouse. OOL is more important in the construction of Rapture than I considered --as noted in 3 above, the book was published in 1947, around the same time as the first wave of "colonists" to Rapture.

Hypothesis: OOL, while perhaps not a full partner and perhaps not even 100% "in the know" was one of Ryan's "agents" OOL saw himself as "the opener of the way" -- the gate-keeper to Rapture -- at least by the time he left the tape.

Combining A and B and a few other things neither of us have touched upon, OOL is also the "closer of the way." He is more than willing to deny a "pilgrim" direction, as he did in the case of Celeste Roget. Perhaps OOL's "investigations" were simply disinformation -- if he was as involved with Rapture as deeply as it would seem at this point, his need to "investigate" would be limited and, if he were truly one of Ryan's co-conspirators, he'd almost certainly was to mislead others as to the true nature of "The Vanishing."

Going back to the note from the lunchbox -- it looks like Mark's daughter's work but could be forged... we know from Lynch that OOL is a clever forger. OOL's past behavior is a problem -- how much is real and an how much is OOL's game?


okay... this little exchange just made me get 3 movie scenarios in my head...

1. Wake up Meltzer, OOL's matrix has you...
2. If OOL is the Gatekeeper, and Ryan is the Keymaster, Who is Zuul? And are the Big Daddies the Stay-Puff Marshmallow Men?
3. With our alternating thought processes, i have to ask: Is your name Tyler Durden?

but seriously...

Perhaps OOL is a litmus test for anyone that wishes to join Rapture. He is there, on the surface, to test hopefuls and see if they have what it takes to be comitted to the idea of Rapture.

Hell, he mnight even be second cousin to Harvey the Rabbit.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:52 am
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MickeyG42
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 		Lynch
New message from Lynch...doesnt seem anything else has changed

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:28 pm
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MickeyG42
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 		Re: Lynch
MickeyG42 wrote:
New message from Lynch...doesnt seem anything else has changed


NM Seems i am a failure, and a day late.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:11 pm
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Dread Cthulhu
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SageGrey wrote:
Dread Cthulhu wrote:
Okay... "combine the parts" time.

Taking 1, 2, A and E, perhaps those shell / front companies involving anagrams of the name Andrew Ryan were companies used in the construction and initial supply of Rapture, fed through the "Scarlet Sovereign" warehouse. OOL is more important in the construction of Rapture than I considered --as noted in 3 above, the book was published in 1947, around the same time as the first wave of "colonists" to Rapture.

Hypothesis: OOL, while perhaps not a full partner and perhaps not even 100% "in the know" was one of Ryan's "agents" OOL saw himself as "the opener of the way" -- the gate-keeper to Rapture -- at least by the time he left the tape.

Combining A and B and a few other things neither of us have touched upon, OOL is also the "closer of the way." He is more than willing to deny a "pilgrim" direction, as he did in the case of Celeste Roget. Perhaps OOL's "investigations" were simply disinformation -- if he was as involved with Rapture as deeply as it would seem at this point, his need to "investigate" would be limited and, if he were truly one of Ryan's co-conspirators, he'd almost certainly was to mislead others as to the true nature of "The Vanishing."

Going back to the note from the lunchbox -- it looks like Mark's daughter's work but could be forged... we know from Lynch that OOL is a clever forger. OOL's past behavior is a problem -- how much is real and an how much is OOL's game?


okay... this little exchange just made me get 3 movie scenarios in my head...

1. Wake up Meltzer, OOL's matrix has you...
2. If OOL is the Gatekeeper, and Ryan is the Keymaster, Who is Zuul? And are the Big Daddies the Stay-Puff Marshmallow Men?
3. With our alternating thought processes, i have to ask: Is your name Tyler Durden?


Enigmatic grin...

SageGrey wrote:


but seriously...

Perhaps OOL is a litmus test for anyone that wishes to join Rapture. He is there, on the surface, to test hopefuls and see if they have what it takes to be comitted to the idea of Rapture.

Hell, he mnight even be second cousin to Harvey the Rabbit.


Rapture would need agents on the surface -- I don't think they'd have a self-sustaining population that quickly and then there's the genetic issue -- small isolated populations tend to get a little peculiar over time... infusions of new populations would prevent stagnation.

Ryan (and, perhaps, his partners/senior staff) would have established some criteria for entrance into Rapture... but given Rapture was a secret, the testing would have had to be covert and the offer to permit immigration to Rapture would, logically, come late in the process. It wasn't strictly IQ / "natural ability" or else Rapture would have gone down line the "Alpha only" community in Brave New World. Instead, it took Ryan's inability to envision Rapture without him as top dog and Ryan's willingness to abandon his principles to maintain and retain power.

I think Lutwidge, in part, provided at least some of those tests -- tests of intellect, certainly, but others -- determination, reasoning, competence -- intangibles that, while related to intellect, aren't inherent.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:01 am
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SageGrey
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Dread Cthulhu wrote:
Rapture would need agents on the surface -- I don't think they'd have a self-sustaining population that quickly and then there's the genetic issue -- small isolated populations tend to get a little peculiar over time... infusions of new populations would prevent stagnation.

Ryan (and, perhaps, his partners/senior staff) would have established some criteria for entrance into Rapture... but given Rapture was a secret, the testing would have had to be covert and the offer to permit immigration to Rapture would, logically, come late in the process. It wasn't strictly IQ / "natural ability" or else Rapture would have gone down line the "Alpha only" community in Brave New World. Instead, it took Ryan's inability to envision Rapture without him as top dog and Ryan's willingness to abandon his principles to maintain and retain power.

I think Lutwidge, in part, provided at least some of those tests -- tests of intellect, certainly, but others -- determination, reasoning, competence -- intangibles that, while related to intellect, aren't inherent.


then it would be reasonable to assume that OOL could have tested Fontaine at some point... could he have been courrupted? Fontaine had a "taste for the theatrical", much like OOL. Fontaine had a New York (Bronx?) accent... and was found to be an ally of Ryan, at first...

i would say that there is something important about OOL that we're missing... but what?

PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:39 am
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Dread Cthulhu
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SageGrey wrote:
Dread Cthulhu wrote:
Rapture would need agents on the surface -- I don't think they'd have a self-sustaining population that quickly and then there's the genetic issue -- small isolated populations tend to get a little peculiar over time... infusions of new populations would prevent stagnation.

Ryan (and, perhaps, his partners/senior staff) would have established some criteria for entrance into Rapture... but given Rapture was a secret, the testing would have had to be covert and the offer to permit immigration to Rapture would, logically, come late in the process. It wasn't strictly IQ / "natural ability" or else Rapture would have gone down line the "Alpha only" community in Brave New World. Instead, it took Ryan's inability to envision Rapture without him as top dog and Ryan's willingness to abandon his principles to maintain and retain power.

I think Lutwidge, in part, provided at least some of those tests -- tests of intellect, certainly, but others -- determination, reasoning, competence -- intangibles that, while related to intellect, aren't inherent.


then it would be reasonable to assume that OOL could have tested Fontaine at some point... could he have been courrupted? Fontaine had a "taste for the theatrical", much like OOL. Fontaine had a New York (Bronx?) accent... and was found to be an ally of Ryan, at first...

i would say that there is something important about OOL that we're missing... but what?


Actually, I would say that Fontaine was Rapture's ideal -- he refused to be hemmed in by morals or rules. Rapture fell because Ryan couldn't live up to his ideals. -- regardless of how "free" Rapture was supposed to be, Ryan always saw himself as the top dog. It was the discovery of Adam that revolutionized Rapture's economy and upset Ryan's applecart.

Sadly, Ryan was the imperfect Rapture resident.

OOL, on the other hand... I'm not sure. He's not grandly ambitious, but he may be the sort of scientist that morality is a hindrance to...

PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:56 pm
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SageGrey
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Dread Cthulhu wrote:
Actually, I would say that Fontaine was Rapture's ideal -- he refused to be hemmed in by morals or rules. Rapture fell because Ryan couldn't live up to his ideals. -- regardless of how "free" Rapture was supposed to be, Ryan always saw himself as the top dog. It was the discovery of Adam that revolutionized Rapture's economy and upset Ryan's applecart.

Sadly, Ryan was the imperfect Rapture resident.

OOL, on the other hand... I'm not sure. He's not grandly ambitious, but he may be the sort of scientist that morality is a hindrance to...


In most situations, the ideal world you would create would have one of two limitations:

1. you wouldn't fit in there, or
2. you would have to be absolute ruler, without contest...

And yet, Atlas was the sort of person that had morality too... we've had major curveballs before... i wouldn't count it out just yet...

PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:51 pm
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Dread Cthulhu
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SageGrey wrote:

In most situations, the ideal world you would create would have one of two limitations:

1. you wouldn't fit in there, or
2. you would have to be absolute ruler, without contest...

And yet, Atlas was the sort of person that had morality too... we've had major curveballs before... i wouldn't count it out just yet...


Atlas was a mask, a fraud, a seeming created as part of Fontaine's "long grift" (con game) to take over Rapture following Ryan's assault on his smuggling ring.

He was willing to kill Jack, advocated the slaughter of the little sisters and murdered to protect his "secret identity" as Altas.

Morality wasn't a major consideration...

PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:14 pm
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SageGrey
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Dread Cthulhu wrote:
SageGrey wrote:

In most situations, the ideal world you would create would have one of two limitations:

1. you wouldn't fit in there, or
2. you would have to be absolute ruler, without contest...

And yet, Atlas was the sort of person that had morality too... we've had major curveballs before... i wouldn't count it out just yet...


Atlas was a mask, a fraud, a seeming created as part of Fontaine's "long grift" (con game) to take over Rapture following Ryan's assault on his smuggling ring.

He was willing to kill Jack, advocated the slaughter of the little sisters and murdered to protect his "secret identity" as Altas.

Morality wasn't a major consideration...


I never said his moral compass pointed north, i just said he had morals... sheesh. Razz

PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:36 am
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FSURobbie
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Quote:
*O.O.L. knew SOMETHING - left behind cryptic puzzle/tape
(may be other msgs in other locations - must find them!)


Anyone else think of SDCC when they read this? I donnu, maybe I'm just trying to talk myself into going to the con. I just have a feeling something more than an artist signing Bioshock 2 comics is going to go down at SDCC this Thursday...

PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:55 am
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Dread Cthulhu
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SageGrey wrote:
Dread Cthulhu wrote:


Atlas was a mask, a fraud, a seeming created as part of Fontaine's "long grift" (con game) to take over Rapture following Ryan's assault on his smuggling ring.

He was willing to kill Jack, advocated the slaughter of the little sisters and murdered to protect his "secret identity" as Altas.

Morality wasn't a major consideration...


I never said his moral compass pointed north, i just said he had morals... sheesh. Razz


Morals of a starving hyena, without the sense of restraint.

And I think FSURobbie is right -- there will changes coming down with Comic-Con...

PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:08 pm
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