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[Guest]

How "real" do we want it?

[konamouse]

I was a little disturbed sitting through the AWARE video "Marcus" made on his way to meet up with "Marty" (and have a gal pass him a poisoned swizzle stick). Granted, nothing was *seen* happening on tape, but it was very long, drawn out and you knew it was a recording of a murder (albeit ARG and not real-we hope). This game had multiple murders, a family threatened with a gun held to their baby (not real, just reported), and the pretent kidnapping of a UF member, not to mention the climactic threat of a nuclear bomb going off in Seattle.

Now, in Urban Hunt, we have the report of an entire cast and crew of a tv show as dead/missing, and the webmaster for the production company as missing (which is actually pretty tame compared to AWARE).

Guess, it's really all relative to what kind of violence offends yourself.

[Lance_Lake]

Speaking as the person who is responsible for "The C**t heard around the community", I personally think that ARG's should be as real as real life. If it isn't, then all we are playing is a glorified form of Myst.

[addlepated]

[Lance_Lake]

Neither is it a part of mine..

However, people like that DO exist. If you piss off a character enough, I feel it justified for him getting.. well.. upset.

Just my personal preference.

[addlepated]

Well, my real-life reaction is to stay away from someone who would use that language. I'm certain that several others feel this way as well. I'm sure this is not what puppetmasters would want. It's counter-productive to chase off players. Not only are you trying to imitate reality, you are also performing to a specific audience. It's not just about your wants and needs as a puppetmaster. You are making this game happen for the players, not for yourself, and you need to take their wants into consideration.

Although in a perfect world, you as puppetmaster might be able to use any language you please, make personal threats, and kick someone's dog, the fact remains that this is not reality, it is a game (no matter how strong your TINAG philosophy is). You might gain the admiration of some of your players, but you will lose others.

And in today's society, pushing the envelope with regards to threats and giving out personal information is the fast track to a long lawsuit.

[Guest]

Hmmm..I didn't play AWARE so never saw those videos (unless they're at some FTP somewhere *hint hint*)

So, obscene language is sometimes ok and sometimes not - depending on the situation? Personally, I think that obscene language is ok at any time, as long as it has a reason or a cause.

Murders happen quite often in ARGs and in many different ways, and sometimes we get to see them on vids. However, what if there were a vid so real that some people might actually start to feel uncomfortable. Or threatning calls, I for one, would love to get that 1 AM threatning call, but I know people that would freak out and call the cops. Or IRL-packages with strange stuff in it, in these times where people are on constant look-out for terrorism-stuff, is it okay to mail players?

[MageSteff]

[dmon_man]

everyday is like sunday

[Wolf]

OK, here's my take, as if anybody cares.

As the writer of what (I hope) were some memorable characters in a couple of games, I have no issue at all with coarse/adult language in the context of narrative, as long as it's exactly appropriate to the particular character's personality/manner of speaking.

Two examples: Krystyn and Andy had the Jo character in Lockjaw lob a couple of F-bombs at the audience in the course of her e-mail exchanges. And it fit the character precisely. It conveyed her frustration and anger in just the right way, and nobody raised an eyebrow. And in the same game, I had the Serpent character toss off an "asshole" or two, again completely in-character (not to mention the "asshole" was accompanied by another character's rather bloody demise) and rather than turn people off, the players took part of that particular piece I wrote and made it a sort of unofficial slogan.

So to me, it comes down to judicious use of words. If you're doing it for shock value, you probably need to think about expanding your vocabulary. If it's how the character would actually express himself or adds to the character somehow, go for it. Your players/audience will be smart enough to tell the difference.

As a side note, as a writer I am completely in love with words like the "C" word and "turd." In an overly ambiguous language like english, there are very few words whose meaning are INSTANTLY clear and understandable, and those are two of them.

[kxmom11x]

Wow!

/me applauds

My take on this subject is this. For the most part, and I emphasize *most part,* the people who participate in this genre can be considered adults ~ regardless of their age. (/me notes that there are have been "adults" within this community that have behaved in less than their age group) With that said, most of us have experienced vulgar language, distasteful pictures and unsettling events ~ whether we liked them or not. Whether these events are a part of everyones life, they still exists and are a part of life in general.

An ARG that avoided any or all of these components could be fun and interesting. eg: Ozzie and Harriet meet the 21st Century or I Love Lucy discovers E-Mail! Although these scenerios probably wouldn't instill the adrenalin factor, they could provide something new; Comedy.

However, what draws me to an ARG is generally the mystery of the unknown. Most themes that fall into this category risk pushing the envelope of "puritanity." I believe that again, *for the most part,* those who enjoy this type of theme are both aware and prepared for this possibility.

So, in summary; avoiding the distasteful, vulgar, offensive or unsettling would be a mistake. It should be used judiciously and presented in the most artful and relevant manner possible. As for those who would be offended, then perhaps bowing out or simply "changing the channel" is the best solution.

[Addy]

Well my take on it is, that it is Alternate reality game, so therefore wouldnt it kind of kill it if it didnt change reality. Violence, gore, language, and theme should'nt be worried about, I think the discussion here was about how much interaction do we want with the game. I think there should be as much interaction as possible, (threatening phone calls, IMs, mail, and the others) should be as frequent as possible, because thats what makes the game fun, is getting an unexpected email, with a murder video attached to it and a note saying "It was john" and then you actually knowing who john is, and actually caring that he killed someone, these games are not just click, solve, goto next puzzle, there is a degree of emotional involvement that separates them from the rest.

[Lance_Lake]

Here here.

I agree fully and I worry about those games that seem to be taking that route. What ever happened to the games that you actually interaced and made decisions that affected the game as a whole.

To all future PM's. Give us some interactivity besides puzzles. it's gotten to the point now that if the trailhead puzzle can't be solved in 15 mins., then I'm off the game. Put in options for us who aren't puzzle solvers.

I hereby challenge anyone who wants to take me up on it to create a ARG with NO puzzles. Just interaction with characters and letting that decide the fate of the game.

Oh. and don't tell me that it's impossible. I have a game right now set up and ready to go. Once I get enough money together to actually put it out there, then you will see what I mean.

[addlepated]

[Addy]

well there isn'y anthing wrong with puzzles, but when it get to the point where it's just one puzzle after another, it turns into a regular video game. ARGs are different in that respect, that's why we play them.

Oh yeah, interactive fiction sounds like what some people would want, and I would like to say that im all for it, as long as thats not the only option.