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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
[SPEC] Is DURGA the mirror that the Operator set up?
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

[SPEC] Is DURGA the mirror that the Operator set up?

In her latest 404 message, the Sleeping Princess again references locations, places within a castle. I still think these locations have some definite meaning, but I still can't work them out.

The mirror next to the Operator, or Queen, is a new addition that surprises the Sleeping Princess and catches her off guard.

This is my question, could the "mirror" refer to a Durga as mirrored program or a copy or something like that? Could the Operator have set that up as part of creating the axons so that the ''roads" and "secret paths" don't lead back to her directly? Instead, they lead us to the actions of Durga..

Not being a programmer or software person of any ilk (umm, I don't know much about hardware either) I don't know how it would work in practical terms or what the correct vocabulary is. But I guess the question is whether DURGA is a "ghost" of the Operator.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 am
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usernameguy
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Joined: 15 Aug 2004
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The Sleeping Princess wrote:
The Queen was gone, and in her place lay only an empty crown. By great enchantment she had been mazed in mirrors, and lay upon a lodestone floor amongst only her reflections. Long and long the Widow stood in thought. Then she raised her bony staff and speaking a spell, beheld herself within the mirrors: and beholding herself, was within them. And there, with the crown still upon her brow, lay the Queen.

Code:
grope:
!probe master-sector
fail
!probe master-sector cmd proc
 empty
!analyze magnetic
& si !extend
!spdr extend
si > magnetic
!probe master-sector cmd proc
master-sector


xnbomb wrote:
SPDR uses grope to figure out how the magnetic media works in conjunction with the silicon circuitry, connecting processor to hard disk and sending its code on in there, and having done so it can finally see the master-sector


This was probably the Sleeping Princess, translating SPDR for us, way back in phase 1. She's talking about what happened just after the SPDR was activated. xnbomb gave an excellent interpretation I recommend people read.

SP's used the word "mirror" before. I think when she says "But just then I saw that on the wall next to her, the Queen had hung a HUGE mirror. She must have put it there on purpose to catch me spying!" she's saying the Queen laid a trap for her in the computer, most likely on the hard disk.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 11:30 am
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SF-SJ
Kilroy

Joined: 27 Aug 2004
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Location: PDX

Possibly...

Listen to the .wav 'Reflected;' Durga may be Melissa @ some point in her reconstruction.

Another incredibly wild spec- Review the conversation between ONI Tech Kowalski & the female LT, where he discusses what her favorite game is. He states that you can tell what type of vessel an AI is suited to by the games they prefer. He states hers was spin the bottle "before"; she (the AI) corrects this later and says that it was always hide and seek.

Question: Does anyone know the procedure for creating these AIs?

If no, then spec: Is it possible that our young Jan James is somehow an AI in training? IE, either what we hear between Jan & James James is some sort of simulated AI training w/ Jan/Melissa as an 'adolescent' AI or these AIs are somehow 'grown' in human forms and moved to the digital world at some point. Sorry if this is 2 far off topic.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 11:48 am
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Theorizer
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Hey does anybody else just feel out of the story when every relates back everything to a computer. Like the staircase, people related it back to higher priority computer functions and what-not, Like is this really helping us out by turning everything so that it has to do with a computer? I like the idea of SP simply being like a human being, hiding from the pious flea and the queen, in a castle, not "Sp is a computer program, and she's hiding deep withing the memory of the computer, from a virus deleter gone physco" And so far how has relating back to actual hardware of the computer help us, when I first thought of, "IN" the computer, I thought of an entity that was able to acess everything that the computer had in it, and this entity is sending out a message. Not "Queen=C:/". So there's my ramble.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:30 pm
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sherpa
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Thing is, Theorizer, having real-world analogues of these metaphors is particularly useful - e.g. using the metaphor of the Flea and Widow to figure out the computer code and work out what's going on. Sure, you can leave it at the metaphor if it suits you, but trying to actually relate it to other ingame clues or to plausible real-world equivalents (e.g. DNA/twisted pair cable for the staircase) is useful, and brings up the big question "who is the Sleeping Princess"? If we leave it at metaphor, that's not a question at all.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:38 pm
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chaotic_mind
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Theorizer wrote:
And so far how has relating back to actual hardware of the computer help us, when I first thought of, "IN" the computer, I thought of an entity that was able to acess everything that the computer had in it, and this entity is sending out a message. Not "Queen=C:/". So there's my ramble.


I think the original Widow Code/ Widow's Story convergence showed that the PMs were making the connection between the Princess's metaphor, and even asking us to continue the tradition.

Considering that comparing the Widow's Story with the Widow Code helped to explain and elucidate BOTH, I'd said digging beneath the metaphor was pretty helpful.

Luke P.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:40 pm
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Theorizer
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sherpa wrote:
Thing is, Theorizer, having real-world analogues of these metaphors is particularly useful - e.g. using the metaphor of the Flea and Widow to figure out the computer code and work out what's going on. Sure, you can leave it at the metaphor if it suits you, but trying to actually relate it to other ingame clues or to plausible real-world equivalents (e.g. DNA/twisted pair cable for the staircase) is useful, and brings up the big question "who is the Sleeping Princess"? If we leave it at metaphor, that's not a question at all.
I unerstood the computer code, that was fine, we needed to figure that out, but it's a real turn off for people to go ahead and name each character as a computer part.
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Hey Kitty Sniper you think we can take on all these ARG's?
Kitty Sniper: Meow......KILL!
I'll take that as a yes.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:40 pm
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sherpa
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Theorizer wrote:
I unerstood the computer code, that was fine, we needed to figure that out, but it's a real turn off for people to go ahead and name each character as a computer part.


But if you accept each character exists beyond metaphor then the logical next step is to work out what they are. Some people are drawing parallels between, for example, the SP's glass coffin and silicon chips - others are thinking differently, so I think you might be tarring a lot of [SPEC]s with the same brush here. If you don't know much about computer internals, or don't care much for them, then think along other lines; there are definitely plenty of them. But for some people thinking inside the box helps to get a perspective on things.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:50 pm
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Theorizer
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sherpa wrote:
Theorizer wrote:
I unerstood the computer code, that was fine, we needed to figure that out, but it's a real turn off for people to go ahead and name each character as a computer part.


But if you accept each character exists beyond metaphor then the logical next step is to work out what they are. Some people are drawing parallels between, for example, the SP's glass coffin and silicon chips - others are thinking differently, so I think you might be tarring a lot of [SPEC]s with the same brush here. If you don't know much about computer internals, or don't care much for them, then think along other lines; there are definitely plenty of them. But for some people thinking inside the box helps to get a perspective on things.
I know I know, but all the same I still think even if we figure out which specific piece of hardware the queen/SP/Flea are, it won't progress the story at all, unless that's what the PM's are hoping we do that, But then there's so many ways that thye can all relate, and I think it'd be one of the tougher things to prove. All the same if people want do figure this out, let em, might come in handing as peace offerings when the bees come j/k
_________________
Hey Kitty Sniper you think we can take on all these ARG's?
Kitty Sniper: Meow......KILL!
I'll take that as a yes.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:55 pm
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Astald
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Joined: 01 Aug 2004
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Understanding where all the entities in the system reside may be our first step into understanding how they got there. And understanding that may help us get them out, or whatever it is that becomes our goal.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:58 pm
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sherpa
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Theorizer wrote:
I know I know, but all the same I still think even if we figure out which specific piece of hardware the queen/SP/Flea are, it won't progress the story at all, unless that's what the PM's are hoping we do that, But then there's so many ways that thye can all relate, and I think it'd be one of the tougher things to prove. All the same if people want do figure this out, let em, might come in handing as peace offerings when the bees come j/k


Well, figuring out what brand of SPARTAN Jan is/isn't doesn't really progress the story at all either. It all just adds up to being able to think about the story universe more clearly. Also, if -- for example -- we figured out that the Sleeping Princess is a ssh process listening on port 7777, then later on if we see a username/password somewhere in the site, we can instantly go on and use it. So real world equivalents are useful sometimes Very Happy

Short version: Even if you think other people's spec and the way they spend their time is useless - if it doesn't work for you - it's still good to have a bit of respect for it. I know it's hard to convey that in a text medium, but still... Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:58 pm
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Theorizer
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All the same, one of the hardest parts of this arg is when people use words that I didn't even know existed, have to look up, and forget what that word means in a hour. Laughing
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Hey Kitty Sniper you think we can take on all these ARG's?
Kitty Sniper: Meow......KILL!
I'll take that as a yes.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:01 pm
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sherpa
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Theorizer wrote:
All the same, one of the hardest parts of this arg is when people use words that I didn't even know existed, have to look up, and forget what that word means in a hour. Laughing


Really? that's one of the BEST bits for me Very Happy
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stercus, stercus, moriturus sum!
~ a girl of many names ~


PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:02 pm
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Theorizer
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sherpa wrote:
Theorizer wrote:
All the same, one of the hardest parts of this arg is when people use words that I didn't even know existed, have to look up, and forget what that word means in a hour. Laughing


Really? that's one of the BEST bits for me Very Happy
Your crazy, mister emoticon, is she crazy? Screwy See, 2 against one Raspberry ......... Laughing
_________________
Hey Kitty Sniper you think we can take on all these ARG's?
Kitty Sniper: Meow......KILL!
I'll take that as a yes.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:04 pm
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usernameguy
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Joined: 15 Aug 2004
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The internals of a computer are the characters' home. It is what they "see" from day to day. They have to look "through windows" to see the real world.

It's funny that you say we're associating each character with a computer part. That's not what I was trying to do, exactly. I was trying to relate the action to their surroundings. All three of the surviving computer characters (Melissa, the SP, and the Flea) all share the entire computer. At any moment any one of them could be using any part of the computer.

They have an odd relationship to the computer hardware itself. It's kinda like their (collective) body. Each of their minds would die without hardware. But it's not like human beings' minds and bodies. They can hop from machine to machine.

Each has a different awareness of their "computerness" and how their computerness relates to the real world.

The Flea, like the SPDR, is a xenophobe. It only really communicates in computer code. The Flea hasn't really shown any awareness of the hardware at all. He also deals strictly with his reality, never in allegory, metaphor, or analogy. This doesn't make him stupid, it just makes him very foreign.

The Princess understands code but seems to think in a different way. She may be aware of the hardware only in analogy. She actually sees the computer as "a castle" that surrounds her, the disk as "a mirror". In fact, most of her thinking seems to be one level removed from even the software. She lives in a virtual reality.

Melissa is much, much more sophisticated than either. She is intimately aware of the hardware and the technology she runs on. She is as fluent in code as the Flea. Yet she seems to prefer to think and talk in English, and in human terms. She switches from code to real world tactics to cold scientific thinking to analogy on a dime.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:19 pm
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