Return to Unfiction unforum
 a.r.g.b.b 
FAQ FAQ   Search Search 
 
Welcome!
New users, PLEASE read these forum guidelines. New posters, SEARCH before posting and read these rules before posting your killer new campaign. New players may also wish to peruse the ARG Player Tutorial.

All users must abide by the Terms of Service.
Website Restoration Project
This archiving project is a collaboration between Unfiction and Sean Stacey (SpaceBass), Brian Enigma (BrianEnigma), and Laura E. Hall (lehall) with
the Center for Immersive Arts.
Announcements
This is a static snapshot of the
Unfiction forums, as of
July 23, 2017.
This site is intended as an archive to chronicle the history of Alternate Reality Games.
  

The time now is Tue Nov 12, 2024 1:52 pm
All times are UTC - 4 (DST in action)		 View posts in this forum since last visit
View unanswered posts in this forum
Calendar
 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
[spec] Teleportation
Moderators: Giskard, JKatkina, Zarggg
View previous topicView next topic
Page 5 of 7 [100 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next
Author Message
dotman4114
Veteran


Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Posts: 133
Location: Florida
xxxblindxxx wrote:
i think we all have out ideas and alex is gonna eat ice cream at work deciding which theory he wants to go with lol. and J is just gonna sulk and /emo about how he needed more mascara in return Very Happy
Don't forget how Sarah is going to be PMSing about how she needed more character development and Seth is going to be arguing with Slendy about how he killed him off too early
_________________
Slenderized.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:44 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
 Back to top 
xxxblindxxx
Decorated

Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Posts: 220
dotman4114 wrote:
xxxblindxxx wrote:
i think we all have out ideas and alex is gonna eat ice cream at work deciding which theory he wants to go with lol. and J is just gonna sulk and /emo about how he needed more mascara in return Very Happy
Don't forget how Sarah is going to be PMSing about how she needed more character development and Seth is going to be arguing with Slendy about how he killed him off too early


too true but you forgot about how tim personally hates the mutton chops and thats why he became masky in the first place, and brian who is probably TTA looking for revenge because they only showed him in 1 video or 2 if u count the open field one lol. he wasnt missing people. HES PISSED

PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:08 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Dray
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?


Joined: 15 Jan 2010
Posts: 2578
Location: Cowtown, AB

 		You guys are goofballs. XD Maybe they all TELEPORTED AWAY.

Just to, you know, bring this back on topic. Wink

PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:16 pm
 View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger
 Back to top 
xxxblindxxx
Decorated

Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Posts: 220

 		teleported to the 9th gate of hell in the year 5069. and the proof that this happened was edited by slendy =D bam

PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:44 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Daniel Kay
Veteran


Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 97

 		Here's a little theory, please note I'm still relatively new to MH (just found it about 3 days ago) so I don't know all details.
It's possible it has nothing to do with teleportation, time manipulation or deliberate video manipulation. The Slender Man most likely possesses some supernatural abilities, possibly being able to move inhumanly fast, some form of mind control/alteration, but through some way he can also easily access locked rooms and quickly disappear (entry 14).

Now the idea slightly derives from Silent Hill, his ability to do so is shifting between planes of existence, to enter a building unheard he slips into a "dimension" in which he can simply move through the walls and appear inside the building. Doing so disturbs video equipment and other electrical devices especially in places where his presence is very strong.

Now what happened in Entry 23, when Jay chased the Masked Man he followed him through the same door which did lead into the same room but in different dimensions, that's how Masky was suddenly gone.
Now when Jay repeatedly passed through such dimensional "portals" there where time skips where it rapidly got dark, what happened was that the human mind and video equipment don't take such jumps too well, he simply "blacked out" while passing through them so fast in a row, the camera did as well. At some point that "blackout" was gone, the camera recorded again and Jay could see what was going on again. This would also explain why the Slendy Doll was in different positions all the time but always in the same pose (pointing into the bathroom).
Finally when he ended up in the old house from Entry 22 he was very close to the Slender Man, you can see that the camera only recorder very distorted from that point on and Jay was in panic. When he was "caught" by Slendy he wiped his memory and "sent him back" to his dimension, as he said the camera was broken by that point, the repeated "jumps" damaged it so much it broke.

What else to that theory? Entry 22, Alex said that the others are "gone" and yes to what he saw they where, the disappeared from that plane of existence. They did reappear as soon as Slendy was done with them, at least Jay and Tim appeared again, we haven't heard of the others.

Lastly, what this is all about, Entry 24. Before the "disappearance" happened there was a heavy distortion and we heard a odd "music" play that was picked up by all cameras the same time.
What happened here was Slendy manipulated again which disturbed the cameras and recording equipment, as mentioned video equipment reacts odd to those dimensional jumps so when Jay walked through the door what one camera picked up was in one dimension and the other picked up another dimension. Since pretty much the whole house was in an "alternate dimension" at that time all cameras picked up the "music".
Hell this could even explain why the timecode in the videos was slightly off, there was a slight delay between what the cameras recorded due to that.
And again since the human mind reacts strange to those jumps too (we simply can't comprehend this too well) Jay didn't notice anything and while he was in the "other" room Slendy was there too to do whatever with him.


Though I think this theory if just as weird as Teleportation and Time Jumps so I guess it's in the same category, just wanted to throw it in though as it may be a interesting thought on what's going on.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:34 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
dotman4114
Veteran


Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Posts: 133
Location: Florida
Daniel Kay wrote:
Here's a little theory, please note I'm still relatively new to MH (just found it about 3 days ago) so I don't know all details.
It's possible it has nothing to do with teleportation, time manipulation or deliberate video manipulation. The Slender Man most likely possesses some supernatural abilities, possibly being able to move inhumanly fast, some form of mind control/alteration, but through some way he can also easily access locked rooms and quickly disappear (entry 14).

Now the idea slightly derives from Silent Hill, his ability to do so is shifting between planes of existence, to enter a building unheard he slips into a "dimension" in which he can simply move through the walls and appear inside the building. Doing so disturbs video equipment and other electrical devices especially in places where his presence is very strong.

Now what happened in Entry 23, when Jay chased the Masked Man he followed him through the same door which did lead into the same room but in different dimensions, that's how Masky was suddenly gone.
Now when Jay repeatedly passed through such dimensional "portals" there where time skips where it rapidly got dark, what happened was that the human mind and video equipment don't take such jumps too well, he simply "blacked out" while passing through them so fast in a row, the camera did as well. At some point that "blackout" was gone, the camera recorded again and Jay could see what was going on again. This would also explain why the Slendy Doll was in different positions all the time but always in the same pose (pointing into the bathroom).
Finally when he ended up in the old house from Entry 22 he was very close to the Slender Man, you can see that the camera only recorder very distorted from that point on and Jay was in panic. When he was "caught" by Slendy he wiped his memory and "sent him back" to his dimension, as he said the camera was broken by that point, the repeated "jumps" damaged it so much it broke.

What else to that theory? Entry 22, Alex said that the others are "gone" and yes to what he saw they where, the disappeared from that plane of existence. They did reappear as soon as Slendy was done with them, at least Jay and Tim appeared again, we haven't heard of the others.

Lastly, what this is all about, Entry 24. Before the "disappearance" happened there was a heavy distortion and we heard a odd "music" play that was picked up by all cameras the same time.
What happened here was Slendy manipulated again which disturbed the cameras and recording equipment, as mentioned video equipment reacts odd to those dimensional jumps so when Jay walked through the door what one camera picked up was in one dimension and the other picked up another dimension. Since pretty much the whole house was in an "alternate dimension" at that time all cameras picked up the "music".
Hell this could even explain why the timecode in the videos was slightly off, there was a slight delay between what the cameras recorded due to that.
And again since the human mind reacts strange to those jumps too (we simply can't comprehend this too well) Jay didn't notice anything and while he was in the "other" room Slendy was there too to do whatever with him.


Though I think this theory if just as weird as Teleportation and Time Jumps so I guess it's in the same category, just wanted to throw it in though as it may be a interesting thought on what's going on.
That's a very well thought out and interesting theory you've got there. I think I'm going to start looking into it more thoroughly, nice work!
_________________
Slenderized.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:55 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
 Back to top 
TheAtroxious
Unfettered


Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Posts: 428
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Daniel Kay wrote:
Entry 22, Alex said that the others are "gone" and yes to what he saw they where, the disappeared from that plane of existence. They did reappear as soon as Slendy was done with them, at least Jay and Tim appeared again, we haven't heard of the others.


This got me thinking. If the teleportation theory is true and J can warp from place to place, then Masky and TTA probably can, too. What if Alex is the one who's "gone", as in, trapped in another dimension, away from the others? This is a bit of a crack theory, but remember that J did not have the tape in which Alex revealed this; it was given to him by an outside source, one who it seems has a hell of a lot more of an idea about how all this stuff work in the Slenderverse. This could be an important bit of information when it comes to figuring out what the whole part about being "gone" means.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:45 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
JustinGeiger
Guest
Dray wrote:
Aja Aeris wrote:
TheAtroxious wrote:
As it goes, we must allow for a margin of error, and the assumptions people will make about something that turns out to be a fluke. As when Entry 18 came out, remember how many people (including myself) began theorising that there were three people on the scene, and various other things, such as J driving Alex's car and so on simply based on peripheral data. When J came out with posts to dispel these theories, we fell back on "if they want us to know something, they'll show us" for a good while, and it served us well. Now we are getting the same sort of straightforward messages. J all but comes out and says that he's been teleporting in this video. Many of us, however, not liking this idea, thinking it preposterous to introduce into an otherwise "realistic" story try to form a new theory based on the peripheral data that has, in the past, proven to amount to nothing in the vast majority of the time. This is not to say that we should dismiss this data, or stop discussing it. It could very well turn out to be something significant. However, too many of us are disregarding patterns seen previously in this series, and dismissing perfectly legitimate theories as to where the story seems to be going, simply because they do not like them.


^This.

I support the idea that Slendy can at least bend a small amount of space/time laws, which to me explains why he can stretch his body to impossible lengths and move so quickly. His presence also messes up electronic equipment, which I feel is also due to the fact that he is screwing with space/time, and since cameras and televisions are unable to capture and broadcast this sort of strangeness, we see it as a distortion. This might also explain how he is able to mess with the memories of those in close proximity to him, if that is in fact his fault. I have yet to see any way for him to transfer this ability to others, though, and since these distortions only seem to happen when he is VERY close by, I can't see how Jay just spontaneously starts teleporting in his own home without the significant distortion in his security cameras that is usually present when Slenderman is. I've yet to figure out how TTA or Masky got in to edit his tapes (I doubt Slenderman knows or cares how a video camera works, nor can I see him taking the time to edit tapes, so I assume a human did it), but then again, Masky isn't the Epileptic Ninja for no reason, and TTA is...well, TTA. Who the hell knows who he/she is and what he/she is up to...or capable of.

At the same time, it seems very strange to me that in Entry 23 Jay would black out in a strange house, turn his camera on, move through a few rooms, black out again, turn his camera on again, move through a few rooms, etc., and not think to mention that at all (unless he didn't remember). Still, you'd think he'd wonder why he kept waking up on the floor while he was running about in circles, or why his head hurt so much. If someone messed with the tape, it seems more logical that they'd just want to knock him out ONCE and be done with it, but that doesn't explain the time shifts in the tape.

Then again, if he WAS teleporting through time and space, Slendy had to be VERY close by the whole time, and there isn't enough distortion in the tape to suggest this, except towards the end when he finds himself in the "basement."

I think the real problem behind the whole teleportation/tapefuckery debate is that there isn't a clear consensus on what Slenderman's power actually is. Can he create pockets of space where time is screwed with, even when he's not close by? Does he screw with time at all? Exactly how close does he have to be to cause tape distortion? What is his relationship to the whole memory-loss incidents? Is he bound by physical laws, i.e.- can he move through solid objects? We really need more information on our slender friend (fiend?) before we can ultimately say one theory is more valid than the other, because both have huge gaping holes in them. I'm content for now to just sit back and let it play out; I'm quite sure the creators will make it clear before the end.


Good points, though about the tapefuckery, if Jay was compelled to loop his own camera, he could always have pushed the couch out of the way to let someone in, or opened his window in the bedroom, or whatever. In that case he could also have been sitting about drooling for a few minutes while TTA subbed in new film and ganked the rest.

In that case it'd be neat if we saw something along those lines from TTA's tube-site! Been F5ing that little bastard every few minutes. DX


Hey there! Long time lurker, first time poster. i would just like, first, to say that Dray seems to be one of the more logical posters. I always appreciate what they have to say Wink
also, and this is the reason ive come out of lurk, I've had some ideas about the teleportation theory which nobody has seemed to notice. Isnt it possible, considering Jay's fragile state of mind, that Lady Gaga has a massive cock?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:22 am
 Back to top 
Dray
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?


Joined: 15 Jan 2010
Posts: 2578
Location: Cowtown, AB

 		Hmm, I am informed! The trolling can stop! :o The world makes sense now!

Yeah, Alex being the one on the wrong side would make a certain amount of sense... in that case he could have somehow gotten back before Jay showed up to snag the tapes?

Who knows!

PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:37 am
 View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger
 Back to top 
Daniel Kay
Veteran


Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 97
TheAtroxious wrote:
Daniel Kay wrote:
Entry 22, Alex said that the others are "gone" and yes to what he saw they where, the disappeared from that plane of existence. They did reappear as soon as Slendy was done with them, at least Jay and Tim appeared again, we haven't heard of the others.


This got me thinking. If the teleportation theory is true and J can warp from place to place, then Masky and TTA probably can, too. What if Alex is the one who's "gone", as in, trapped in another dimension, away from the others? This is a bit of a crack theory, but remember that J did not have the tape in which Alex revealed this; it was given to him by an outside source, one who it seems has a hell of a lot more of an idea about how all this stuff work in the Slenderverse. This could be an important bit of information when it comes to figuring out what the whole part about being "gone" means.


That actually sounds quite good, the others weren't gone, Alex was, however from his "perspective" the others vanished.

Maybe this was Slendy attempting to get Alex to destroy the tapes, he pulled him in another dimension and held him there messing with his mind until he had him at the point where he said he'll destroy the tapes and with that proofs of Slendys existence, then sent him back (maybe Slendy didn't know where all the tapes where hidden or was somehow unable to destroy them himself).
When Alex came back his mind was a mess, he didn't actively remember those anymore but he was freaked out enough to still wanting to destroy the tapes. Then Jay convinced him to hand the tapes over, Alex simple didn't know the FULL reason anymore why he wanted to destroy them so getting rid of them was the second best thing.

Of course Slendy wasn't happy with that, as soon as Alex moved away he hunted him again and now that there was no video material anymore he "disposed" of him for good (this could prove false though since we really don't know where Alex is).

However Jay simply put the tapes away and didn't mess with them, Slendy probably was around Jay all the time but since he pretty much forgot about the tapes he didn't interfere, doing so may have triggered some hidden memories and Jay would have checked the tapes again.

But then Jay stumbled over the "Something Awful" thread, he saw the Slender Man images and that triggered something in his mind, things he saw way back when he helped with the movie project even though he doesn't remember anymore, and that fuzzy, unclear memory made him check the tapes and end up in the situations he's now in with Slendy hunting him.


That last hidden tape, the one at the red tower, could have gotten there this way.
When Alex handed over all the tapes to Jay and was ready to pack up and leave he discovered that one tape was still in his camera. His mind was pretty messed up at that point, he didn't really remember what happened, to him it REALLY was just the "unworkable conditions" he claimed. But when he looked over that tape some memories came back again, he knew that there was more but he was in panic. And he knew Jay was involved in it too somehow, that last tape was important but if he had given it to Jay he would have pulled Alex into this again, so the best thing he could do was hide it in the metal box on top of the red tower... but he never returned from hiding it there.

It may be possibly that Slendy didn't know there was one last tape, he could have assumed Alex turned the last one over together with the others. Alex coming back to the red tower may have just "angered" Slendy since it meant Alex did remember something and he decided to get rid of him for good.
In the time afterwards Slendy simply "forgot" to check the red tower since he also had to keep an eye on at least Jay and Tim in case they remembered something.

PS: Some tapes may have also still been in Tims possession, or he made copies of a few of them, this fits into the "Tim is the Masked Man" theory.

PPS: Sorry if this got away from the teleportation topic, just some more theorizing.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:03 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
baka.vaka
Veteran


Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 87
woah...
Hey.

I started this thread, and I want to briefly comment on the direction it's taken in my absence.
i started the thread because of the large number of statements i read ont eh forum saying that 24 was obviously the writers intentionally showing us teleportation, but I didn't agree. I didn't get that message at all when i first watched the video. So, either I had missed something, or the evidence is open to another interpretation. SO i started a thread hoping to either have people agree that there's room for other theories, or point out to me the strong evidence for teleportation I missed. it was NEVER meant to become a hate fest or create party lines.

There are a few posts specifically I'd like to respond to.
Spritey wrote:
They're obviously trying to make it look like teleportation, so I'm just going to assume that's what it is, at least for now... The only reason you're denying this theory is that you don't like the idea of it, and that's your problem.

My whole original point was that I didn't agree that teleportation was obvious, but I'm completely open to being proved wrong. i don't dislike the theory of teleportation, I actually think it could be fun, but I don't see the evidence as totally convincing, so i wanted to open a discussion with those who do to figure out if my opinion was sound or unsound. So, don't make assumptions or accusations on me. I never did so to you.

JKatkina wrote:

:/ I know the only reason I'm accepting the premise of teleportation is that, from a narrative point of view, they seem to be all but force-feeding it to us. Or at least setting up for a big reveal of some sort that OH GOD IT'S NOT TELEPORTATION AFTER ALL in which case, I'm accepting that they want us to think that it's teleportation, for now.

How are they force-feeding it to us? what part of the evidence is that conclusive to you? That's ALL i want to know!

xxxblindxxx wrote:
all we can do is guess and making hate threads like this on the idea of TTT(teleportation and time travel) is not only a waste of time but completely ignorant...
im tired of seeing so much hate everywhere. especially for something so small as an idea for something NO ONE knows for sure.

im not saying you guys are incorrect about the editing idea. it sounds plausible if you take the idea of TTT out of the picture completely, but in #23 J teleports from one room to the other. i dont mean downstairs.

the way the layout of the house has been shown so far. it showed absolutely no possible way for J to run in a circle like that. that explains a bit about teleporting but time traveling im not completely for or against.

J could have edited the video to cut the time that he was wasting run around looking for somewhere to go. to me that seems to be the most plausible answer to the lights getting darker as he keeps running.

hope no one RAGES at me for stating my opinion. seems to me that some people don't approve of such actions.

As i stated, this wasn't intended as a hate thread. And You make a good argument here, but how do you explain the change in light levels in 23 is it's TTT?

SlendoMusic wrote:
This is really only to discuss that teleportion isn't the only possibility, and I don't believe it was meant to be a hate thread. Some people just presume that we want MH to be hwat we want it to be. The whole point of Marble Hornets is making theories, and this one is no different imo.

Thanks

Daniel Kay wrote:
a whole lot of great stuff you should go read... right now (I didn't want to quote it all)

This is great theory. I approve.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:34 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Dray
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?


Joined: 15 Jan 2010
Posts: 2578
Location: Cowtown, AB
woah...
baka.vaka wrote:
Hey.
JKatkina wrote:

:/ I know the only reason I'm accepting the premise of teleportation is that, from a narrative point of view, they seem to be all but force-feeding it to us. Or at least setting up for a big reveal of some sort that OH GOD IT'S NOT TELEPORTATION AFTER ALL in which case, I'm accepting that they want us to think that it's teleportation, for now.

How are they force-feeding it to us? what part of the evidence is that conclusive to you? That's ALL i want to know!


I think that she means, here, that we're seeing Jay repeat the 'I go through the door on one side, and it's not opening on the other.' While that doesn't necessarily scream "OMFG TELEPORTATION!" it's 'force feeding' a "What the hell happened during those two hours? Something supernatural?!" line. It seems like he's focusing on the strange door action and he's completely ignoring the weird time stamps, or at least is not making any comment on how they change.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:18 pm
 View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger
 Back to top 
gordon_ramsay
Unfettered


Joined: 27 Sep 2009
Posts: 521

 		CRAZYTHEORYEXPLINATIONTIME!!!

So, in Signal, We got that narration. The line I'm looking at is:

Quote:
Go upstairs to your room. I will be waiting for you. I will surround your bed, close the window, so that none will ever again be able to enter.



Maybe SM could have taken it as making it so Jay can't leave his room, and no one can enter.

ENDCRAZYTHEORYEXPLINATIONTIME!!!

PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:06 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
xxxblindxxx
Decorated

Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Posts: 220

 		BAKA VAKA
its possible it might be TTT, but who knows. maybe he edited him self to now show him running for hours. he never mentioned anything about seeing the light changing, which to me would be weird going into the door with the lights outside and then coming back out and dark outside. someone else editing it seems unlikely to me, but we will have to see in next weeks episode of Friends.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:15 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Guest
Guest


 		Guys, I think we can discuss this without the need of "I AM THE OWNER OF THE TRUTH! BOW BEFORE ME!", with due respect and civility.

So, putting some more things in this pot:

Did you guys noticed something from 1:17 to 1:23? The camera shows heavy audio and video distortion. And we can notice that there is jumps between the frames. That is surely not time travel. And we can say that is probably caused by our Masked friend (because of the efects are less strong than the one created by SM).

We have a mess of counters on those images. We have even counters inserted on top of the other. So I think that the we can't trust all of then

On Entry 23 there was only a lot of blacking out. I posted this in the thread:
Anonymous wrote:
how many times J (and the long gone camera) blanks out. I would count 3:

  1. Between 2:04 and 2:10: He appears in another room. Audio Distortion is your friend (Listen) and shows it.
  2. Between 3:12 and 3:14: You can see the video distortion and the daylight that was present(2:45) isn't now. That is the most quick nightfall in the west, ladies and gentlemen, as it took only 0:30. Spooky, isn't?
  3. Between 3:41 and 3:51: J blanks out in the corridor, in front of the stairs and them we have roughly 0:10 of audio distortion that may be someone speaking (someone with the skills should analyse, please) and then we hear J trying to catch his flashlight.


Perhaps we can borrow [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor]Occam's Razor[/url] and apply on it: "When competing hypotheses are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selection of the hypothesis that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest entities while still sufficiently answering the question. "

So, if we can explain the sudden desapearence of J, why not explain it with something that was already shown? Remember when Masked Man just got J from his bed in #19?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:18 pm
 Back to top 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 5 of 7 [100 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next
View previous topicView next topic
 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
You cannot post calendar events in this forum



Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group