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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » ARG: Super 8
[ANALYSIS] HD trailer 1
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keseki
Boot

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 65
0TJ0 wrote:
tabkatta wrote:
In order to keep from going nuts, and since I can't contribute in any other way, have some information about the train and car:

The wheel on the car is probably a locking mechanism. Something like that is so rare on a boxcar that it would have HAD to have been made specially for the military. There's no way there's anything on the inside corresponding to it, since that would bock the door from opening. (Boxcar doors slide along a track parallel to the side of the car, so anything on the inside of the door would block it.) This car was obviously specially designed to keep something in.

Class one railroad speed limit is 79 mph, and that's concrete - it's based on track condition and ability of rolling stock. It was probably going slower that that, if there were any curves or rough spots in the track. The speed limit in Ohio is less than 79, because of congestion, but how much lower at that time, I don't know. Also, as a special military train, it could probably get permission to go 79 if the track conditions supported it.

At 79 mph, a train colliding with a truck like that would not crash that spectacularly. The telescoping of the cars looks right, but the mass of the truck wouldn't be enough to make them do that, because the mass of the truck (what, at the very most, fully loaded with stuff, maybe 8k lbs?) just wouldn't be enough to cause it to stop abruptly enough to cause that kind of telescoping. The train would derail, and obviously friction would slow it down pretty quickly, but not enough to cause that kind of destruction. For that, you'd need something closer to the mass of another locomotive.

So, either there's more to the crash than we can see, or it was that bad for the sake of theatrics.

No, none of that is exactly startling, but more information can never hurt, right? ^^


...no

The Locomotive is about 100 tons on its own and are made to pull up to around 12,000 tons . Cars are closer to 20 to 30 tons a piece EMPTY. So depending on the amount of cars and how much was on them this thing could be heavy as shit.

Ive heard analagies of a fully loaded freight train hitting a car being about the same as your car running over a pop can (lbs to lbs). Honestly the chances of a train totaly being devisted by a single truck... highly unlikely... although Im sure it has happend... if nothing else, at least in a few movies.[/b]



do you know much a ton is? 2000lbs... SEMI trucks are around 30tons, a normal full size civillian truck is at best 3-4 tons. hell, even fully loaded, the highest towing capable civillian truck can only do like 10 tons. so your info is a bit off, regardless, a truck hitting a locomotive would be a bug on my cars windshield. could have been a rigged truck by a conspiracy theorist. hence why the tracks werent rigged and other things.

it could be we are missing the picture here and instead of looking at the military aspect, we should be looking at the conspiracy groups around that time dealing with top secret military projects?

PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 9:20 pm
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0TJ0
Boot

Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 16
keseki wrote:
0TJ0 wrote:
tabkatta wrote:
In order to keep from going nuts, and since I can't contribute in any other way, have some information about the train and car:

The wheel on the car is probably a locking mechanism. Something like that is so rare on a boxcar that it would have HAD to have been made specially for the military. There's no way there's anything on the inside corresponding to it, since that would bock the door from opening. (Boxcar doors slide along a track parallel to the side of the car, so anything on the inside of the door would block it.) This car was obviously specially designed to keep something in.

Class one railroad speed limit is 79 mph, and that's concrete - it's based on track condition and ability of rolling stock. It was probably going slower that that, if there were any curves or rough spots in the track. The speed limit in Ohio is less than 79, because of congestion, but how much lower at that time, I don't know. Also, as a special military train, it could probably get permission to go 79 if the track conditions supported it.

At 79 mph, a train colliding with a truck like that would not crash that spectacularly. The telescoping of the cars looks right, but the mass of the truck wouldn't be enough to make them do that, because the mass of the truck (what, at the very most, fully loaded with stuff, maybe 8k lbs?) just wouldn't be enough to cause it to stop abruptly enough to cause that kind of telescoping. The train would derail, and obviously friction would slow it down pretty quickly, but not enough to cause that kind of destruction. For that, you'd need something closer to the mass of another locomotive.

So, either there's more to the crash than we can see, or it was that bad for the sake of theatrics.

No, none of that is exactly startling, but more information can never hurt, right? ^^


...no

The Locomotive is about 100 tons on its own and are made to pull up to around 12,000 tons . Cars are closer to 20 to 30 tons a piece EMPTY. So depending on the amount of cars and how much was on them this thing could be heavy as shit.

Ive heard analagies of a fully loaded freight train hitting a car being about the same as your car running over a pop can (lbs to lbs). Honestly the chances of a train totaly being devisted by a single truck... highly unlikely... although Im sure it has happend... if nothing else, at least in a few movies.[/b]



do you know much a ton is? 2000lbs... SEMI trucks are around 30tons, a normal full size civillian truck is at best 3-4 tons. hell, even fully loaded, the highest towing capable civillian truck can only do like 10 tons. so your info is a bit off, regardless, a truck hitting a locomotive would be a bug on my cars windshield. could have been a rigged truck by a conspiracy theorist. hence why the tracks werent rigged and other things.

it could be we are missing the picture here and instead of looking at the military aspect, we should be looking at the conspiracy groups around that time dealing with top secret military projects?


ya. my apologies. i thought he was refering to the weight of the train.... still im pretty sure were all on the same page as far as this truck (a 66 chevy? has that came up yet?) shuld not have taken out the train... even with explosives i duno if it culd have made much diffrence. it wuld have to effect (affect?) the track somehow i think. and again that is hard as hell to do.

maybe the driver of the truck was trying to slow the train down because of something wrong ahed. maybe that didnt work so what we see is the aftermath from when it hit the "something" ahed.

PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 10:53 pm
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Euchre
uF Game Warden


Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 3342

 		Re: Truck Driver.
Hurley wrote:
Has it been confirmed that the driver of the truck was still in the vehicle at the point of impact? Wouldn't be too far fetched to brick the gas-pedal and ditch, seeing as how the tracks would keep the truck on course.
(And just a thought, but if you were trying to spirit an E.T. across the country, and were worried about someone or something trying to intercept you, an AN/TQQ-1 system would have been a cheap alternative to tracking any incoming fighters/UFO's)

When I was frame stepping the trailer at the point of explosion of the truck, looks to me like there's some meaty chunks snuck into the frames. I believe the driver is meant to have been there when it hit.
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 2:52 am
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Mr. Killer
Kilroy


Joined: 14 May 2010
Posts: 1
Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico

 		Air Force Locomotive
I was trying to figure out what locomotive they're using for the trailer. Probably useless info but still something to look into.

Using this frame (see attachment) of the trailer I've narrowed it down to a few AF locomotives. The one in the trailer obviously is black or dark gray, with a yellow and black stripe, two yellow bars in front, and single headlight. According to this info these are the following locomotives I've came across:

USAF VO1000 7139 http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1399951

USAF BLW S12 1864 http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1209628

USAF S12 1863 http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1612298

Some of these locomotives have dates such as 1971, 1973, and 1976. I don't know if these were the dates the pictures were taken of what. Anyways it coincides with the time frame we are working on which is late 70's.

Another thing I found is that all these locomotives are in Hill Air Force Base in Utah. And according to degravedi's findings this AFB is located right next to Bonham, UT.

A more comprehensive list of AF locomotives can be found here:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locolist.aspx?id=USAF
locomotive.jpg
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 5:12 am
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Hurley
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Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 299
Location: Where the surfing is good...

 		Re: Truck Driver.
Euchre wrote:
Hurley wrote:
Has it been confirmed that the driver of the truck was still in the vehicle at the point of impact? Wouldn't be too far fetched to brick the gas-pedal and ditch, seeing as how the tracks would keep the truck on course.
(And just a thought, but if you were trying to spirit an E.T. across the country, and were worried about someone or something trying to intercept you, an AN/TQQ-1 system would have been a cheap alternative to tracking any incoming fighters/UFO's)

When I was frame stepping the trailer at the point of explosion of the truck, looks to me like there's some meaty chunks snuck into the frames. I believe the driver is meant to have been there when it hit.

Cool, but not for our driver, I suppose. I really should look into some editing software. Smile (good to see ya Euch.)

PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 1:05 pm
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Eleven72
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Joined: 13 May 2010
Posts: 198
Location: Gettysburg, PA

 		I brought this up elsewhere, but did anyone notice the wheel? Whatever was in the car must have had some form of telekinesis.

Notable?

PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 1:11 pm
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vapor
Entrenched


Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Dallas, TX ya'll

 		I'm just going to put this here for reference. It's describes the basics of Railway surveying. It looks like or mystery pole is a milepost. If we can find out what rail line the train was traveling on and then find a valuation map of that railway, we might be able to figure out the precise location of the incident.

Possible railways are Norfolk and Western, B&O, NYC, Penn. Haven't had a lot of luck with valuation maps yet. Somebody might want to take a crack at it.

ETA: It looks like the National Archive has valuation records.
http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/1997/spring/railroad-records-1.html
If we have a good idea of which RR, then we should order records from the Archive.
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 3:39 pm
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IamNumber8
Greenhorn

Joined: 14 May 2010
Posts: 4

 		Number on the beam after crash
some of the numbers make sense and seem to be 21470 which was the name of an asteroid found in New Mexico http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21470_Frankchuang where the institute that found it located in Socorro where the Zamora UFO Incident happened hmmm someone try to make something out of this

PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 10:06 pm
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bflew
Guest


 		if you add the numbers together from the trailer, you get 91.64. if you look on wikipedia, there are several different townships with 91.64km². don't know if this has any significance but it might be something worth looking into

PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 10:14 pm
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bflew
Guest


 		that is assuming that the numbers are 20 + 61.74

PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 10:18 pm
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bflew
Guest


 		oops
20 + 71.64

PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 10:19 pm
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Shizzire
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Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 262
Location: Canadanada
Zenlightenment wrote:
J0shuaKane wrote:
not sure if this has been pointed out yet, or is just too obvious, but whoever was driving that truck drove into the train on purpose.

maybe it was Dan Morris...?


I'm going to go out on a limb here and stick with the school of thought that the truck driver was just committing suicide and this whole debacle is an accident.

If someone wanted to derail the train they could have just rigged the tracks with dynamite and used one of those plunger devices they used way back when to blow it up.

I believe the driver just discovered that his wife had been cheating on him with his best friend. Not only that, but the driver's best friend also sold the driver's daughter some crack. He was on his way to settle the score, but just had a revelation that maybe it was best to just let things be, let them be happy, end it all.

He hears the warning for the train and decides: this is it, I can't go on any longer. Obviously, I base this on absolutely nothing. You get my drift, though.


I don't think this was an intentional attack. If it was, why ruin a perfectly good truck/life?


Speaking from experience? I've been there too brother...

PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 10:24 pm
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Shizzire
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Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 262
Location: Canadanada
0TJ0 wrote:
tabkatta wrote:
In order to keep from going nuts, and since I can't contribute in any other way, have some information about the train and car:

The wheel on the car is probably a locking mechanism. Something like that is so rare on a boxcar that it would have HAD to have been made specially for the military. There's no way there's anything on the inside corresponding to it, since that would bock the door from opening. (Boxcar doors slide along a track parallel to the side of the car, so anything on the inside of the door would block it.) This car was obviously specially designed to keep something in.

Class one railroad speed limit is 79 mph, and that's concrete - it's based on track condition and ability of rolling stock. It was probably going slower that that, if there were any curves or rough spots in the track. The speed limit in Ohio is less than 79, because of congestion, but how much lower at that time, I don't know. Also, as a special military train, it could probably get permission to go 79 if the track conditions supported it.

At 79 mph, a train colliding with a truck like that would not crash that spectacularly. The telescoping of the cars looks right, but the mass of the truck wouldn't be enough to make them do that, because the mass of the truck (what, at the very most, fully loaded with stuff, maybe 8k lbs?) just wouldn't be enough to cause it to stop abruptly enough to cause that kind of telescoping. The train would derail, and obviously friction would slow it down pretty quickly, but not enough to cause that kind of destruction. For that, you'd need something closer to the mass of another locomotive.

So, either there's more to the crash than we can see, or it was that bad for the sake of theatrics.

No, none of that is exactly startling, but more information can never hurt, right? ^^


...no

The Locomotive is about 100 tons on its own and are made to pull up to around 12,000 tons . Cars are closer to 20 to 30 tons a piece EMPTY. So depending on the amount of cars and how much was on them this thing could be heavy as shit.

Ive heard analagies of a fully loaded freight train hitting a car being about the same as your car running over a pop can (lbs to lbs). Honestly the chances of a train totaly being devisted by a single truck... highly unlikely... although Im sure it has happend... if nothing else, at least in a few movies.[/b]

I agree with the concern about "momentum" being conserved. But all the truck needs to do is get the train off the tracks. Once off the tracks, the engine can't move (as easily) but the cars behind it still have momentum, causing the accordion of the train. So I'm still saying "plausible". We need that hawtie from myth busters...

PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 10:29 pm
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Nighthawk
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Joined: 14 Jul 2007
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 		Live I've said before: I've physically been on a commuter train when it slammed in to a car while going just shy of 75 MPH.

If you weren't in the lead car of the train, you would hardly realize what happened.

And that was a locomotive + 2 passenger cars - like this one - except that the train was going in reverse so the commuter end hit first.
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 10:52 pm
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yellowdart1
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Joined: 13 May 2010
Posts: 41

 		I agree with shizzire that it is plausible. Certainly there is no guarantee that a truck could derail a freight train, but I don't think it is impossible. It would really depend on the hit and what happens after that. If the truck just struck the front and either stuck and was pushed backwards, or was destroyed and broke into pieces on either side, the train would probably just keep rolling. But if it somehow hit in a weird way that allowed, say, the engine block to be pushed under the front of a train, that much solid metal would probably be enough to shove the train up 1 or 2 inches for a split second, long enough to derail the engine's wheels and pile-up the cars. But still super unlikely, and definitely wouldn't result in a giant fireball. Plus it didn't look like the truck went under the engine.

PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 11:36 pm
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