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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
[SPEC] The Durga<->Melissa connection through time
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Mazian
Unfettered

Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 529
Location: San Francisco, CA

 		Re: "assigned to"
MeKiwi wrote:
Shad0 wrote:
But Melissa's ship has a crew of only 40. (MAYDAY text.) Shocked

.
.
.


[SPEC] With the tight groupings of the newest AXONs, Melissa expects her crew to handle multiple taps. With 30 groups of 12 axons, that means only 30 crew are required to handle the duties. I'm personally able to get to around 12-15 axons in my area myself.[/SPEC]

[SPEC="alternate"] If we want to speculate on the number of crew Melissa expects, we should count based on geographical location, rather tha number of axons, number of required axons, or number of axon groups. [/SPEC]

[SPEC="meta"] It isn't really relevant since the PM's need to provide the wide range of GPS coordinates to give multiple people the opportunity to participate, and the question of the number of crew is irrelevant to the ARG/ARS. [/SPEC]

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 4:54 pm
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MeKiwi
Decorated


Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 260
Location: San Francisco

 		Re: "assigned to"
Atrophied wrote:
I looked through the Organised Mayday Text and couldn't see any mention of the number of crew members. could you quote it perhaps?



MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY

length: 120 meters
crew: 40
cover: pleasure yacht
ha
ir co
lor: b
r o



wn

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:04 pm
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Astald
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Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 747
Location: Just outside of Pittsburgh (Go Steelers!)

 		Sorry for all my screwups today, I am d-r-o-w-s-y. My post was trout, very bad at that, so I will try and make up with spec.
Melissa may have had so many axons to cover as wide an area as she could, hopefully some of her crew would answer her call. With all of the axons we've covered, she thinks her crew are able to connect to that axon, so she keeps using it at every phase. She does want the crew to listen to the voices to diagnose her, so she is going to keep trying to get those people who already connected to her to hear it. That doesn't really explain why she adds new coordinates though.[/strike]

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:14 pm
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AngriBuddhist
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Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 778
Location: Wa.

 		Mazian wrote:

Quote:
With the tight groupings of the newest AXONs, Melissa expects her crew to handle multiple taps.


I totally agree.
Check it: http://forums.unfiction.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6154

As for the original topic, the spec is good but I just can't except it.

A Cole Protocol driven Oni Smart AI ships off copies (albiet limited)
of itself to Earth to perform background checks on a jazz listening
human that it has a crush on?

Then, instead of doing any research into said human, it begins
eavesdropping on a couple of characters who although might be
related seem to have no connection to said human?

Meanwhile, a slipstream time warp possibly related to an Artifact
causes yet another copy to beam down to a hobbiest web site in
the year 2004?

I personally believe that whatever caused the crash of the
Apocolypso (which Melissa on ILB remembers) is also the cause of
Melissa's crisis. If she remembers the crash of the ship how could she
be a limited instant copy of the Operator?

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:22 pm
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Kazic
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 338
Location: High Point, NC

 		I've got a question, 'cause something's bothering me. If durga and melissa are one and the same, only split why would melissa show us any of the durga files at all (I know the new ones are the princess' doing, but melissa showed us some herself).

What's the point? What connection is she making between herself and Durga? If this is trout sorry, I was just wondering.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:21 pm
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raw19
Boot

Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 61

 		RE: Crew of 40, yet Melissa is trying to contact way more than that:

She's not completely in control of herself. You can blame insanity, I blame the pious flea. Her basic protocol after a crash would be to contact her crew. He's distorting this protocol to make contact attempts way more than she needs to.
I still don't know why he would want to do this though. Perhaps he's a spy and is gathering information.

Quote:
why would melissa show us any of the durga files at all (I know the new ones are the princess' doing, but melissa showed us some herself).

What's the point? What connection is she making between herself and Durga? If this is trout sorry, I was just wondering.


Quote:
Conjecture:
The voices are in some way related to my accident.
Because of the damage, I am unable to accurately assess the nature of the voices.
By broadcasting the voices to my crew, they will be able to assess the damage.


she's sending us the files because she can't make any sence of them, she figures maybe we can.

what's the connection between herself and Durga??!! have you read anything in this topic? Deleted taunting trout emoticon of the unnecessary smackdown

EDIT - Let's not be abusive, evil children who don't play well with others, mmmkay? If you want to answer a question, then fine, please do so and if you're able to provide a link, even better. If you just want to taunt someone with a fish for not having a firm grasp on things, then please refrain. -SG

EDIT - Sorry, guess I overreacted Embarassed

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:10 am
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Kazic
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 338
Location: High Point, NC

 		I have been reading on this topic and I have been in this game for a while. It wa syou who didn't read what I said correctly. I did NOT ssay what is the connection. I know what it is, we all know what it is. I said what connection is SHE making between herself and Durga.

Do not jump to conclusions please.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:43 pm
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Dorkmaster
Unfictologist


Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 1328
Location: The People's Republic of Dork

 		And Kasic, while I'm still not sure if I buy into "Melissa is Durga", if you follow that logic, maybe she's still trying to get around that whole "reflection" thing. This is TOTAL wild spec, but maybe this is part of her process to record and replay history, but that she kind of doesn't focus on it when it's out. Like temporary amnesia. But again, that's wild spec.

But regardless, it does make sense that she's "randomly" throwing memories out there, in order to look at herself. But that's only if you follow the Durga=Melissa (either split in times or split personality, etc...) logic.

-DM
_________________
"The future is here. It's just not widely distributed yet." -William Gibson
"Always read stuff that will make you look good if you die in the middle of it." - PJ O'Rourke
"ACADEMY, n. A modern school where football is taught." - Ambrose Bierce

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:57 pm
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Kazic
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 		I suppose that makes sense. Thanks for answering my question dm.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:33 pm
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fivecentfamily
Boot

Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 33
Location: Glendale, AZ

 		[SPEC] [WILD?] Tying ALL the stories together.
OK, I like the original spec in this thread, that Durga is connected to Melissa through time, so I thought I would place my spec here, since it is an expansion of that idea.

(Oh, this is gonna be long, so go get something to eat, and visit the potty before you start. Wink)

We essentially have five stories:

    Our main story of Melissa stuck in our time in the ILB server, trying to contact her crew, which she thinks is us.

    The story of the crash of the Apocolypso in our future, which caused some kind of power/communications brown-out.

    Jersey's story of Durga stuck in his system, who appears to be a powerful AI that has lost it's way, and likes to eavesdrop on others, namely..

    Jan James, a genetically enhanced wunderkid who has a hard time staying out of trouble.

    Kamal and Sophia, who have what seems to be an innocent romance going on, but there are hints of something more nefarious behind the scenes.


(I know I left out the cranky-old-man story, but I don't quite know how that fits in with the rest yet)

I believe we can tie all these stories together with this sequence of events: (Note that I am not a Halo-ite, and so I may not use the proper Halo names for people/organizations, etc. I hope others will add/embellish this who have that knowledge.)

Our time: genetic research is in it's infancy, and we are just now beginning to talk about genetic selection, such as male and female, inutero.

Fast forward a few decades and people are routinely 'tweaked' inutero to have certain traits.

Fast forward to 25 or so years before the the Apocolypso crashes. Either society or the government determines that continued tweaking is disadvantageous to the human race, and all tweaking is now outlawed. Tweaked individuals are required to be registered, and are monitored closely (perhaps even discriminated against). They may not be allowed to have children.

The government, however, still wants to take advantage of what tweaking can create, so a secret program (pre-Spartan, I think, lets call it Project-T) is created.

17 years before Apocolypso crash, Kamal's sister, Jasmine, is somehow tweaked by Project-T without her parent's knowledge.

Six years later, she is taken by Project-T, and replaced by a flash-clone (another outlawed, but still secretly practiced procedure). The clone dies.

Jasmine's mind is used to create an AI construct, Melissa. She is created as a spy AI. Not just to spy on the Covenant, but to keep watch on certain military personnel, and other tweaked individuals.

Shortly after, Jasmine's mind is wiped (maybe as a result of the AI mapping process), she is renamed Jan, and given into the custody of James James, a tweaked man who is being used by Project-T in exchange for certain 'considerations' that help him and his 'family'.

AI Melissa is pressed into service aboard the Apocolypso to spy on the Covenant, but she keeps close watch on her own crew, intercepting all outgoing communications and analyzing them.

While on patrol, The Apocolypso picks up the ancient artifact, which contains the SP. It probably ALSO contains the time crystal.

Melissa picks up the Covenant transmission concerning the glassing of Troy, but also picks up the Flea, a Covenant infiltration program.

The Apocolypso picks of Jersey's dad, Jason, who is also a spy, but probably for a different area of the government, not Project-T. In fact, he may be trying to find out information about Melissa's origins.

Melissa and Jason seem to hit it off, and become 'friends', but before he can find out anything more about her, SOMETHING happens. Something that causes the ship to be slipstreamed into Lunar orbit, and activates the time device, which causes the disruptions, and brings Melissa to OUR time. The crash 'wakes up' the Sleeping Princess.

Melissa is now split between our time and Jersey's time (as Durga), or maybe there were two complete copies, but both suffered damage to varying degrees. 'Durga' may have instinctively sought out Jason's computer system (now owned by Jersey) because that was the last person she was close to, spoke with, et al.

Melissa 'hears' Durga as "the transmissions". Since she doesn't know what they are, she is asking her crew (us) for help in deciphering them and telling her what has happened.

Durga senses the system that Melissa is trapped on (bee references), but can't get a clear fix on it (reflecting). This might be a limitation of the time device, or the device could have been damaged in the crash.

Project-T become concerned that Kamal may learn the truth of what happened to his sister, especially with his ability to break into communications systems, so they have him set up to be spied on by Sophia/Aiden until they can decide how much he knows, and how likely he is to figure anything out. Aiden tests how willing he is to break into government computer systems.

- End Timeline -


Other spec based on this line of thinking:

Durga knows that Sophia/Aiden are playing Kamal, but she doesn't know why yet. She has a desire to help Jersey, because she was treated well by his father, but she doesn't know WHY. She only has instincts, but no motivations behind them.

The Flea is trying to find out more information that directly relates to the crash, so the 'hidden' pieces of story have direct references to the Apocolypso. Perhaps, as some have spec'd, he's trying to find out where Earth is, but it could be something more than that. He is hiding that info from us (the crew). Maybe because he doesn't want us to know his true motives.

I honestly don't think the SP knows WHAT she is going to do yet, being a forerunner AI, and not yet knowing her true nature yet as she is still waking up, getting out of the encryption that someone (she ASSUMES Melissa), put up around her. She may be trying to understand the Flea so that she can win him over to her side at some time in the future.

I know there are a few holes, and some big leaps of logic in this, but I believe, with what we have now, this ties all the stories together fairly well.

Please comment, laugh, trout, but keep discussing. This is a great thread.

Edited for errors, both logical and gramatical. Thanks, drizzjr.
_________________
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You hear a strange buzzing in your head ... "Hey, you fell asleep at the computer ..... AGAIN!"

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 2:14 pm
Last edited by fivecentfamily on Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dorkmaster
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
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Location: The People's Republic of Dork

 		Dude, that is some spec. I don't know that I necessarily agree with all of it, and I apologize, cuz I'm not really adding to the conversation with this post, but I wanted to say "good job" cuz if anything it's at least very well thought through spec!

-DM
_________________
"The future is here. It's just not widely distributed yet." -William Gibson
"Always read stuff that will make you look good if you die in the middle of it." - PJ O'Rourke
"ACADEMY, n. A modern school where football is taught." - Ambrose Bierce

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 2:17 pm
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M.c.P
Greenhorn

Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 4

 		This is in response to the question on whether or not AIs can transmit themselves.

In The Flood is the following quote (page 261):
Quote:
[Master Chief] had been surprised when [Cortana had] used his suit comm as a de facto modem to transmit her way into the Control Room computers.


So, we know that Cortana can transmit herself to other computers using something as a simple (for the time) battlesuit communicator. Cortana is not an AI devoted to intellegence and espionage either, so it follows that AI's devoted to espionage (such as The Operator) would have even greater capabilities along those lines.

So it seems quite possible that The Operator could transmit herself over something as advanced as a slipspace transmission.

But, there is a contradiction.

In the Halo game, at the end cinematic of Attack on the Control Room, you can clearly see Master Chief put the Cortana chip into the Control Room console. At the beginning of Two Betrayals, you similarly see him remove her from the console as well.

While this doesn't contradict the speculation that AIs can transmit themselves, it certainly does remove all the proof. Still, The Operator, as an intrusive espionage AI, would greatly benefit from being able to transmit herself from computer to computer. This mobility would greatly facilitate her espionage efforts, allowing her to enter enemy computers for surveilance or sabotage.

So, according to the books, AIs can transmit themselves. According to the game, there is no proof whether they can or not. Considering that today we can send (simple) games and other things through cell phones, it seems likely that future technology could send advanced AIs literally through the air.

This has been a message from your friendly neighborhood M.c.P

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 3:11 pm
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GunsmithCat
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Joined: 05 Aug 2004
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M.c.P wrote:
This is in response to the question on whether or not AIs can transmit themselves.

In The Flood is the following quote (page 261):
Quote:
[Master Chief] had been surprised when [Cortana had] used his suit comm as a de facto modem to transmit her way into the Control Room computers.


If the MC is surprised by it, it can't be a normal aspect of an AIs repertoire.

Cortana is also quite possibly the most advanced infilitration AI the ONI has. To quoteth the Halo library, "Dr. Halsey created Cortana to be the perfect intelligent infilitration AI". Among other things, Cortana also has had much more access to Forerunner technology than probably any other AI in the Haloverse, and god only knows what that's done to her.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 3:24 pm
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M.c.P
Greenhorn

Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 4
Quote:
Cortana is also quite possibly the most advanced infilitration AI the ONI has. To quoteth the Halo library, "Dr. Halsey created Cortana to be the perfect intelligent infilitration AI". Among other things, Cortana also has had much more access to Forerunner technology than probably any other AI in the Haloverse, and god only knows what that's done to her.


Wow, forgot about that. Thanks for pointing that out.

Quote:
If the MC is surprised by it, it can't be a normal aspect of an AIs repertoire.


Or, it could be surprising because Master Chief simply never expected her to do that. It is quite possible that he was aware AIs have the ability to transmit themselves, but he had never seen it happen before, possibly because doing so has many risks involved. Similarly, we all know Microsoft has the ability to suddenly pull the plug on this ARG, but it would be a terrible surprise if they did.

Besides, isn't the AI ability to hack other systems just sending bits of herself into other systems and having those bits extract information/bypass security/open doors as needed?

Alright, that's a stretch, but I still think we shouldn't rule out the theory that the Operator transmitted herself anywhere just yet.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:00 pm
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fyzle
Veteran

Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 104
Danin wrote:
I was just listening to curious_girl a few times and it seems to me that there are some significant links personality-wise between Durga and the Sleeping Princess. Jersey mentions how he can tell when Durga is gloating, which vaguely reminds me of "I do this when I am insufferably pleased with myself , ho ho! :-0". Durga also says that she is a "very curious girl", and she sounds quite sly and smirkish when she says it. I'm not sure if there's any significance to any of this, but it just seems like Durga and SP act very similar (except Durga doesn't speak in metaphor).


The two characters are probably written by the same author. The author used metaphor on one character to mask his personality in such a way that an outsider observing both characters would not think they were written by the same person.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:01 pm
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