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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Flynn Lives
[FILM] Reviews (spoilers)
Moderators: enaxor, Euchre, spaceboy, thebruce
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Adm_BlackCat
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Joined: 18 May 2010
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Location: Spokane, WA
madopal wrote:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Anyone else chuckle at the fact that the entire ARG and organization is named after something that is no longer true, and that our interference (and side channel attack) led to that?

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Yeah, the irony is incredible. It even makes the last Flynn Lives post more poignant:
"Kudos on crashing the system! It's time to step away and marvel at the brilliant destruction we have wrought.

Still no word from Kevin Flynn, but our efforts have proven that he does exist... in our hearts, in our minds and (perhaps) somewhere beyond the limits of our techno-conscience.

And so, we are retiring into the shadows, much like Flynn himself... but we will never surrender. Say it with us one last time - FLYNN LIVES!"
Brings a tear to my eye.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:59 am
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thebruceModerator
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Joined: 16 Aug 2004
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 		Re: the name...
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Keep in mind, once again, that we don't know Flynn is actually no more.
Consider 1) We don't see Tron killed by Clu initially; 2) Zeus 'presumed' they perished in the elevator, Clu was smart enough to not presume

Don't presume Kevin is 100% no more. Not with all the hints we've already mentioned earlier. If we don't see him die and spit his last breath or disappear completely, then no, he's not dead.

"Flynn Lives" is now a hope, a belief we carry on until we find out for sure. Before it was a mantra of a different kind of belief, which was confirmed. We found out he did indeed remain alive. Now, we believe he's alive in some different manner. =P

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:20 am
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OU812
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Joined: 15 Nov 2010
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thebruce wrote:
Re: the name...
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Keep in mind, once again, that we don't know Flynn is actually no more.
Consider 1) We don't see Tron killed by Clu initially; 2) Zeus 'presumed' they perished in the elevator, Clu was smart enough to not presume

Don't presume Kevin is 100% no more. Not with all the hints we've already mentioned earlier. If we don't see him die and spit his last breath or disappear completely, then no, he's not dead.

"Flynn Lives" is now a hope, a belief we carry on until we find out for sure. Before it was a mantra of a different kind of belief, which was confirmed. We found out he did indeed remain alive. Now, we believe he's alive in some different manner. =P


Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Also remember that ________ Lives is well entrenched in fandom history. There were Spock Lives t-shirts after STII - and that was derivative of the whole Frodo Lives movement in the 60s....so Flynn can easily return...as can Tron for that matter.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:03 am
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Avatrix
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OU812 wrote:
thebruce wrote:
Re: the name...
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Keep in mind, once again, that we don't know Flynn is actually no more.
Consider 1) We don't see Tron killed by Clu initially; 2) Zeus 'presumed' they perished in the elevator, Clu was smart enough to not presume

Don't presume Kevin is 100% no more. Not with all the hints we've already mentioned earlier. If we don't see him die and spit his last breath or disappear completely, then no, he's not dead.

"Flynn Lives" is now a hope, a belief we carry on until we find out for sure. Before it was a mantra of a different kind of belief, which was confirmed. We found out he did indeed remain alive. Now, we believe he's alive in some different manner. =P


Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Also remember that ________ Lives is well entrenched in fandom history. There were Spock Lives t-shirts after STII - and that was derivative of the whole Frodo Lives movement in the 60s....so Flynn can easily return...as can Tron for that matter.


Spoiler (Rollover to View):
I'd also point out that Tron fell into the waters from which the ISOs originated, and the whole world has an implied imprint of Flynn due to being his own creation. I could certainly see Flynn being re-born out of the primordial "chaos" he mentioned. Maybe not as a regular human, but as a program, or something in-between? To me, Kevin Flynn isn't as important as a Flynn + Tron.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:28 am
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madopal
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Avatrix wrote:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
I'd also point out that Tron fell into the waters from which the ISOs originated, and the whole world has an implied imprint of Flynn due to being his own creation. I could certainly see Flynn being re-born out of the primordial "chaos" he mentioned. Maybe not as a regular human, but as a program, or something in-between? To me, Kevin Flynn isn't as important as a Flynn + Tron.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Glad someone pointed this out...I had to run to work this morning and couldn't post before. I know it's not clear in the movie as much, but in the graphic novel prequel & the video game, that's the Sea of Simulation. It seems to be what Flynn works out of to create things.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:30 am
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madopal
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 		BTW, Bruce, thanks for the post on the 3D. I've had many people asking me about it, and the thing that surprised me was that I had no specific memory of any 3D moments that jumped out at me. I couldn't tell if that was a good or a bad thing. Many people have said that even with the good job they did on Avatar, they had to take their glasses off many times...it was so straining. I never felt like that for a second with Tron, but then again, it didn't really make an impression on me.

The only thing I remember is the lines along side the credits. Outside of that, I couldn't really remember a single shot.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:54 pm
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cinderbike
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Deadboy619 wrote:
Saw the film for the second time today (first time in SD on the 13th and today in Irvine). Imax and Disney Digital are way better than Real3D, especially with Irvine's GIANT Imax screen - super sweet. Here's too all the Unfiction Members that cruised up tonight. Have save rides home in the rain - this means you Beef2Taco and friends and Cinderbike and his lady. And theres totally room for a sequel here.


Absolutely. I had fun even though the waiting sucked. Nice meeting you, Beef2Taco, and all the other unFiction/Tron-Sector members.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:44 pm
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smashdaisaku
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Joined: 27 Oct 2010
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thebruce wrote:
Re: the name...
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Keep in mind, once again, that we don't know Flynn is actually no more.
Consider 1) We don't see Tron killed by Clu initially; 2) Zeus 'presumed' they perished in the elevator, Clu was smart enough to not presume

Don't presume Kevin is 100% no more. Not with all the hints we've already mentioned earlier. If we don't see him die and spit his last breath or disappear completely, then no, he's not dead.

"Flynn Lives" is now a hope, a belief we carry on until we find out for sure. Before it was a mantra of a different kind of belief, which was confirmed. We found out he did indeed remain alive. Now, we believe he's alive in some different manner. =P


Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Yes, but earlier in the movie they said that Flynn could not possible survive reintegration (or whatever it was) with CLU and thats precisely what Flynn did at the end. He absorbed CLU to save his son and Quorra and promptly exploded. It's just in my opinion that they meant for him to be dead at the end of the film, but who knows I guess.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:51 pm
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EuchreModerator
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smashdaisaku wrote:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Yes, but earlier in the movie they said that Flynn could not possible survive reintegration (or whatever it was) with CLU and thats precisely what Flynn did at the end. He absorbed CLU to save his son and Quorra and promptly exploded. It's just in my opinion that they meant for him to be dead at the end of the film, but who knows I guess.


OK, However...
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
So far was we can tell, nobody had ever done that before ('cloning' oneself as software on the grid, or reintegrating that clone back into themselves), so it is probably just assumed that it would be too much for them to survive. However, Kevin has done things 'you shouldn't be able to do' [RAM (Dan Shor)] before. Throw in the emergent capabilities of Kevin's grid with its sea of simulation, and you've got a door open to the resurrection of Kevin. We also don't know what effect reintegration of the two will do to the now unified mind of Kevin/Clu.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:01 pm
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cinderbike
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 		I forgot to mention, last night both myself and Deadboy619 won shirts as part of the 'promo'. I'll have to post pics when I get a chance. They were also giving away posters with Clu on one side and Quorra/Sam on the other.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:02 pm
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cinderbike
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 		Re: Unanswered questions.
thebruce wrote:
shaved_ape wrote:
For starters the Norelco thing was a cluster-F@#%. The pre-party was us sitting in our seats for an hour. So I threw popcorn at Tagruato!!!

Pretty much here too... My bus ended up being 30 mins late, so I only got to the theater around 6:40, and really nothing had been happening. Phillips reps were hovering around everywhere, with a stand up in the lobby and some promotional stuff, but no 'show' and nothing special in the theater.

Toronto UF ppl were all there, and a few extra guest spots had my name on them to be sure (thanks, all =). They had two theaters, and neither were showing IMAX Evil or Very Mad I didn't get my IMAX fix tonight. However, the theater was better than Monday's screening. ...For better or for worse...

A few of us had special 'VIP' access to the event, and that granted us a slightly smaller screen, but no line and less people. The other theater still had people lining up while we were seated comfortably. Phillips also gave us a small popcorn and pop, and did a couple giveaways (one being a $350 razor which KowZ here won, and immediately sold for a good $140)

All in all, enh on the event... yay on the 2nd screening!

shaved_ape wrote:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
1. Quorra said that when Flynn destroys Clu, it will destroy Flynn. So are we for sure that Flynn is dead? Did he destroy the whole Grid with that explosion? Because it wasn't shot to show that.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Quorra actually said that "Flynn would not survive, neither of them would". So really, what does she mean by 'survive'? Wink

A point was raised as we walked out - the water remained. The explosion wasn't the destruction of the grid by any means, but with that explosion essentially taking out all 'land' mass that was visible in that area, what's so special about the water that it remains? There's an obviuos analogy there to 'water of life' religiously, and fictionally the fact that Tron's in there somewhere... but in thinking of the system, yeah - what's so special about the water if everything is equally digital?



shaved_ape wrote:
I LOVED this movie, but The Bruce is right, 3D doesn't add to much on this. In fact the IMAX screen was so big, that sometimes things were out of focus and no matter how you turned your head it didn't fix it.


ahh... the 3D...
rantmode on// (no tl;dr summary as it's late and I'm tired Coffee )


With this screening being on a better screen, I watched very carefully and I'm now firmly convinced that the live action was filmed in 2D and made 3D combined with other 3D environments in post - fake 3D, just what I detest.

The difference here is that
1) full live action scenes (background included) were more wide angle/distant, needing less pronounced 3D;
2) closeup scenes generally had CG backgrounds, and individuals can be digitally 'cut' and pushed or pulled in depth;
3) I could not stop noticing what I'll call 3d artifacting in the post-processing. For example, in Flynn's pad, when the camera is viewing from outside, the elongated bookshelf on the back wall appeared in front of his light cycle, which seemed like it was behind the back wall. And I noticed a number of instances of rampant hair chunks that floated way in front of or behind the rest of the hair, and the occasional other little artifact of missed visual content, in quick clips especially, that didn't appear to be at a consistent visual depth.
4) Actor closeups in real 3D should show much more natural facial depth (think nose appearing closer than the eye sockets) than wider body shots, and every facial closeup here was completely flat; I was striving to see even a tiny bit of (natural) visual depth to the characters' facial features, and could find none (except that final scene, for obvious CG reasons; no spoiler Smile )
5) The constant mix of live action and CG effects masked the flatness of physical scene elements (eg lens flares right up close distract you from noticing that the more distant vehicle they're driving really doesn't 'feel' 3D, or that side wall doesn't really stretch from near to far);
6) Rinzler, I believe was almost entirely rendered save some action shots, but had quite a couple of in-your-face moments where he just really popped out as he flew towards the camera in some crazy flip or stunt - very cool, very CG =)
7) I believe they knew all of this, which is one of the reasons they purposely didn't make the 3D as prominent as most 3D movies do - to reduce the 'unnatural' effect of fake 3D, and mix it as seamlessly as possible with the 'real' 3D computer generated graphic environments and FX.

The light cycle scene for one was stunning and absolutely amazing which, I believe, was also entirely CG. But some of the interior shots within the physical sets could at times be jarring with the post-production 3D.
I do wish they'd filmed the live action in 3D though. But I could see how that might make the combining them with CG 3D environments in post more of a daunting task.

Even after all this though, the 'fake' 3D, as much as I hate it, was mixed well with the rest of the 3D environment so it's not nearly as jarring as an entire live-action 2D film made 3D for the sake of the trend. I believe they made the right choice to have the 3D not as prominent, and allow the very memorable and visually stunning (CG) scenes to take the forefront for the 3D effect.

In the end, as I said before, I think this film would be just as good if seen in 2D. Except the light cycles. That should stay 3D Cool


(Another post, whoops)

I know for a fact the live action was filmed in 3d. I've seen production photos of the set and you can see the fusion cameras used on Avatar.

In fact, the reason the suits actually light up vs. using CG is because of how much of a PITA it would've been to do that in stereoscopic 3d.

PS: What happened to those photos in Vancouver of people in Tron 1 era costumes? Did that get cut or was that a red herring?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:09 pm
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SoCalSteve_
Guest


 		Re: Unanswered questions.
My take (some has been stated by Euchre and Bruce):
I don't know much of how the virus plays into the story, only that the virus seemed to be linked to the ISO's and that the virus was probably destroying CLU's perfect world. Between that and the fact that Flynn was intrigued by the ISOs and paid little attention to CLU and Tron City made CLU jealous and caused him to destroy it all.

When CLU turned into a fanatical leader he and his followers turned orange and held a symmetrical, uniform. (CLU is actually marigold to help him stay noticeable and separate from everyone else).

Since Tron doesn't wear a helmet and we see CLU/Flynn likes hitting programs on the head, I assume he knocks Tron out and reprograms him.

ISO's are important because they have the complex DNA like structure. She is the link to his work to reshape the human condition. In essence, a human could be fixed of missing limbs, cancer, or any other defects.

Although I think CLU would have a huge shock coming into our world as he thinks power is free and limitless. Although as CEO of ENCOM there isn't much to limit him. I see the power of Batman and the mindset of Hitler combined… dangerous!

As for user power, I think the elevator scene does well. Flynn is out of touch with these kinds of things, but creates a reprogramming touchpad.

At the portal, Flynn kind of H-bombs destroying the Rectifier, however the water and rocks at the shore are undisturbed.
Next characters: Tron is sure to come back, but how does the sea of simulation affect him? Sea of Simulation + Tron = 100's of ISOTrons? Possibly pissed off that Flynn left him there? Or when Ed Dillinger steals Sam's flash drive he meets up with Tron… or maybe Dillinger reprograms Tron… Dillinger isn't even in the credits from what I hear. I don't think he'll be anyone significant in the next movie, but I think he will be huge in one of the sequels. Also notice that as Sam puts the thumb drive on his neck it glows for a moment? Took me watching it 3 times to see it. So either the disc should recreate Flynn, or he could come back as a corrupt CLU/Flynn combination.
Adam and Eddy told me they are already writing the next Tron, so there's definitely room for a sequel.

My Questions:
End scene at the portal, CLU has a baton on one thigh, and a box on the other… what's the box?
Quorra's damaged DNA turns blue and flutters away, anyone else think releasing what is now a virus is a bad idea? Maybe this is the source of the 'virus' linked with the ISO's. Not this strain exactly, but other strains Flynn has worked with before?
There's supposed to be hidden Mickey's anyone spot one? Might be one in the embellishment of the couch Quorra lying on…

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:19 pm
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thebruceModerator
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 		Re: Unanswered questions.
cinderbike wrote:
I know for a fact the live action was filmed in 3d. I've seen production photos of the set and you can see the fusion cameras used on Avatar.

hm. well you prompted me to look it up briefly and it does seem it was filmed with fusion cameras. This confuses me more, because there are indeed some parts of the 3D which really do not flow (the light bike and back wall as mentioned above, for instance, and the few segments of floating hair I caught).

Now I'll really be paying close attention on watching the IMAX version this weekend... Confused
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:12 pm
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madopal
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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 		Re: Unanswered questions.
SoCalSteve_ wrote:
There's supposed to be hidden Mickey's anyone spot one? Might be one in the embellishment of the couch Quorra lying on…


I was on the lookout, but saw none. I'm seeing tonight, so I'll keep watch. It wasn't obvious, wherever it/they was/were.

There was only one hidden Mickey in the original Tron, right (during the Solar Sailer flyover)?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:16 pm
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Beef2Taco
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cinderbike wrote:
Deadboy619 wrote:
Saw the film for the second time today (first time in SD on the 13th and today in Irvine). Imax and Disney Digital are way better than Real3D, especially with Irvine's GIANT Imax screen - super sweet. Here's too all the Unfiction Members that cruised up tonight. Have save rides home in the rain - this means you Beef2Taco and friends and Cinderbike and his lady. And theres totally room for a sequel here.


Absolutely. I had fun even though the waiting sucked. Nice meeting you, Beef2Taco, and all the other unFiction/Tron-Sector members.


thanks man. We all made it home. It was nice meeting you all, and it was good to see my boy Valkerie once again. I will be at the midnight showing tonight in Mira Mesa, SO I am hoping to see others there as well. 3 times in one week.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:31 pm
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