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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Flynn Lives
[OT] Is Rinzler....Tron?
Moderators: enaxor, Euchre, spaceboy, thebruce
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thebruceModerator
Dances With Wikis


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 6899
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
renderinfo wrote:
thebruce wrote:
renderinfo wrote:
How about

enhhhh... Smith and his relation to Neo was much closer to CLU's destiny and relation to Flynn than the others you listed... primarily because he's clearly the antagonist, the 'dark side' as it were, where those you listed were more 'light side' reflections. Or, CLU is ultimately Flynn's nemesis, and your list is more like apprentice/image/copycat relations. Razz
Not that this is a really deep and well-thought out comparison by any means Smile hehe

I guess it depends on your perspective. I view Flynn/Clu more as apprentice/image, and you view Flynn/Clu as dark/light/nemesis. I dare say we're probably both "accurate" LOL. And no, I am not a politician...

Actually I see them both as the same, except that Clu's context, his environment, produced a different result than Flynn's. As mentioned by 'guest', Clu is effectively a digital duplicate of Flynn, up to the point Clu was created. Then Flynn tool him under his wing (so already the two have taken different paths) while giving him the rights to control the grid; until Clu in essence over-threw Flynn to become entirely independent.

In a way, actually I guess by technicality, Flynn/Clu is like Picard/Shinzon (only the split occurred much later in life). Environment dictated the goals and perceptions of the differing characters from the point of separation.

For Clu, it brought out (what we consider) the 'evil' side, while in the real world Flynn reflected a similar mindset. But since we view the digital world as non-life, to us it wasn't immoral to have a high desire to make use of the it for our betterment (a perfect world). Where inside the digital world, applying the same logic Clu comes off as evil because he wants to make use of our real world to create the perfect system.

Both have the same goals, both have the same desires, but Flynn coming back in contact with his son realizes that those goals and desires are misled - searching for "perfection", when perfection is in essence recognizing and accepting imperfection. An epiphany Clu didn't come to realize given his environment. And so Flynn is "good" while Clu is "evil".

Ultimately, we have two moral issues exposed through the story - love and acceptance of what we feel may be imperfect, and the value of life, individuality, and freedom. Flynn came to understand these, while Clu didn't. And just like Picard came to realize about Shinzon - if their roles had been reversed, most likely nothing would have changed. If Flynn were in Clu's situation, he would have made exactly the same choices. This is why Clu IS Flynn, and why Sam really did save his father.
"must have been something until Clu screwed it up", "no no, he... he's me, I screwed it up".

So, while Flynn/Clu is a sort of "nemesis" relationship, it's also apprenticeship, and they are the same character/personality.

Dark/light/morality is perceived by us because of our value of organic/human life over digital/virtual, and of course by parallel to today's cultural/political issues Smile
Morality/good/evil aside, Clu and Flynn made the same choices in their respective environments, and would have made the same choices had their lives been reversed.

It was imbalance that tipped the 'conflict' and brought it to an end:
1) Flynn leading Clu for a short while
2) Flynn being in the system for repeated/extended periods (causing Clu to effectively banish/trap him), and
3) Sam entering the system (causing Flynn to realize the error of his ways).

I think the ideal comparison would have been Flynn creating Clu in his image, while remaining outside the system, and letting Clu do as he wished in the system. No influence (only mutual contact). That might have been interesting to see =)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:12 pm
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Diego Curci
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 		Is rinzler...Tron?
Yes People,

If you watch the movie you'll see that Clu accompanied by his guards, attack Flynn and Tron. At a certain point of the fight, one of Tron's discs start turning from blue to red, in other words, he's been corrupted.
By the end of the movie when Rinzler is flying behind Flynn and team, Rinzler says: I fight for the users.

final proof: When under water, his suit turns from red to blue.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:37 pm
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dbalschi
Decorated


Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Posts: 156
Location: Wixom, MI

 		Ok seriously? We've established that. Do you new "guests" even read through before posting? This thread was started when the preview came out!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And Diego his disc doesn't turn blue he grabs another disc from 1 of the guards

PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:46 pm
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Rogi Ocnorb
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
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Location: Where the cheese is free.

 		I've been trying to figure out for the longest time what's going on with the guest posts in this thread. They're all so similar in content...
First a semi insulting opening jibe and then either a patently obvious analysis or one that's just flat wrong. I just find it strange that it's been limited to this thread. I was thinking, "Troll"; But it's too consistent for that. I can't imagine it's just folks happening upon this topic in a search and not reading the thread.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:39 am
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Cchinese Pirate
Boot


Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 27

 		ANYWAYS... back to the topic at hand...
Something else I wished they added a touch more texture to in the film... what was Flynn's emotional state at the time he made the grid, and made Clu...

We dont REALLY know the circumstances of Sam's mom's death or how that affected kevin... Perhaps what is imprinted permanently in Clu's personality is Kevin's greif over losing his wife. His/their drive for perfection revolves around controlling the unknown, removing the variables that randomly took his love away from him. but the random arrival of the Iso's help him realize the opportunities and beauty of pure chance. the chaos of the universe can bring tragedy, but can also bring new life and new possibilities...

Perhaps some of Kevin's reluctance to "reintegrate" clu, means confronting his feelings of loss again...

Or maybe I'm just thinking too much about this...

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:21 am
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RustyMuffler
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Joined: 24 Feb 2010
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 		One of my very few let downs in regards to Legacy was what little mention there was of Jordan. After having a good bit of the ARG focus on her (Hello Flynn entries were practically completely focused on Kevin's musings on how she influenced many of his designs in the Grid), it was really kind of sad that the only mention of her at all in the film was in a throw away line during a montage scene. I know that it was a Father/Son story being told, but I think there was a missed opportunity at some more depth by not bringing her untimely death into some of the dialogue between at least Kevin & Sam. Might have given another layer of motivation to Kevin's decision to go in and talk to Sam after he had time to meditate after their initial conversation about life having a way of moving you past things like wants & hopes. Just a thought.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:20 am
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Rogi Ocnorb
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 4266
Location: Where the cheese is free.
RustyMuffler wrote:
One of my very few let downs in regards to Legacy was what little mention there was of Jordan. After having a good bit of the ARG focus on her (Hello Flynn entries were practically completely focused on Kevin's musings on how she influenced many of his designs in the Grid), it was really kind of sad that the only mention of her at all in the film was in a throw away line during a montage scene. I know that it was a Father/Son story being told, but I think there was a missed opportunity at some more depth by not bringing her untimely death into some of the dialogue between at least Kevin & Sam. Might have given another layer of motivation to Kevin's decision to go in and talk to Sam after he had time to meditate after their initial conversation about life having a way of moving you past things like wants & hopes. Just a thought.

I just attribute this to Disney's demonstrated preference that the protagonist has to be from a single-parent family or be in some other kind of an orphan situation. The writers probably had something set-up for Jordan and weren't able to use it.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:35 am
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ShadowDragon1
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Joined: 14 Mar 2010
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 		It is mentioned in the movie that Flynnn's wife Jordan died, and in the Flynn Lives ARG there are materials revealing she died in a car accident. Plus, read the graphic novel (which IS canon) Tron: Betrayal, it's shown that Jordan's death did really affect Flynn and Sam...

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:33 pm
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RustyMuffler
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Joined: 24 Feb 2010
Posts: 526
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ShadowDragon1 wrote:
It is mentioned in the movie that Flynnn's wife Jordan died, and in the Flynn Lives ARG there are materials revealing she died in a car accident. Plus, read the graphic novel (which IS canon) Tron: Betrayal, it's shown that Jordan's death did really affect Flynn and Sam...


Flynn Lives ARG? What's that? Is Flynn alive?? Comics? I don't read comics. I'm all man, lady!

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:32 pm
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ShadowDragon1
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 		uh?????

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:18 pm
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dbalschi
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Joined: 28 Mar 2010
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Location: Wixom, MI

 		hahahahaha love the Mallrats reference

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:23 pm
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