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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
[SPEC] Flea: friend, foe, something else?
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Wandering_Angela
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Who is the Pious Flea?

Centipede wrote:
I still maintain that hte FLea was sent by the Covenant to subvert our AI's. He ran into the Princess (which I believ eto be a Forerunner AI) and decided to try and subvert her too. HIs first attempts failed completely, so now he's just changing tactics.


I'm with Centipede here. I think the Flea being "friendly" toward SP fits in perfectly with the idea that he's a Covenant virus. After all, aren't the Covies supposed to be obsessed with the Forerunner? He's probably going "Oh my God, look what I found! I have to figure out how to make friends with her!"

That's assuming the flea has any understading of what he's dealing with. If he's just a dumb process, he may just be programed to subvert any AI's he comes into contact with. The Princess just happens to be a little tougher than Melissa, so he's having to try different tactics.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:11 pm
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Avery1415
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There's a bit of logic here that has a hole in it that you could drive a bus through.

We are assuming the flea is hostile - and it seems to be, at least to Melissa's stated goals. We know the Covenant is hostile. Ergo the flea must be covenant.

It makes sense, but there's that bus, the one that ran over the Apocolypso's captain. Are we going to assume the bus driver is also Covenant?

No, we know whose handywork that was and they are quite terran. So why are we assuming the Flea isn't also one of their spys?

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 6:21 pm
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Nova
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Avery1415 wrote:
No, we know whose handywork that was and they are quite terran. So why are we assuming the Flea isn't also one of their spys?


It seems that Capt. Greene was assassinated to prevent him/her from talking about what he/she knew. If the Flea was one of their spies, wouldn't it be encouraging Melissa to shut up about what she knows, rather than trying to 'reveal the truth'?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 6:30 pm
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Avery1415
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Nova wrote:
If the Flea was one of their spies, wouldn't it be encouraging Melissa to shut up about what she knows, rather than trying to 'reveal the truth'?


A good spy reports home sooner or later.

Either way, I think both Melisa and the Flea have been corrupted enough that we won't be able to tell who was on whose side when this all began by their behaviour now.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 6:43 pm
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Astald
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I've been toying with that spec a little as well. That the flea may be a spy for some organization, maybe Herzog's. Then it would make sense that he built those axons, because they resulted in a connection to the future, which could just be the flea trying to report back. I am still unsure why it would have connected to Durga though. But the truth the flea could be looking for is what was covered up by the murders (flu) of the original Apocalypso crew.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 6:49 pm
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slacktron
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Here is the evidence for "Pious Flea as Covenant":

Memory Block 10 -- Virus, where Melissa picks up a virus piggybacked on a Covenant signal they were monitoring.
If you check out phase 3 from the above page, you can see the Flea's battle with SPDR, where he evades, then masquerades as the SPDR with a later version (SPDR-5.14.77) and has Melissa delete the older one (SPDR-5.14.3).

And since we're all speculating here, what do you think the Fleas' real purpose is?
According to the Cole Protocol, designed to protect the coordinates of Earth, all ships encountering the covenant must:
1. Activate selective purge of databases on all shipbased and planetary data networks.
2. Initiate triple-screen check to ensure all data has been erased and all backups neutralized.
3. Execute viral data scavengers. (Download from UNSCTTP://EPWW:COLEPROTOCOL/Virtualscav/fbr.091)
4. If retreating from Covenant forces, all ships must enter Slipstream space with randomized vectors NOT directed toward Earth, the Inner Colonies, or any other human population center.
5. In case of imminent capture by Covenant forces, all UNSC ships MUST self-destruct.

It appears the Pious Flea was designed to get as much information as possible and transmit it before the Protocol is completed.

Thus, I humbly submit that Pious Flea is using Melissa to discover that this is indeed the Planet Earth and transmit these coordinates to his Covenant masters.

How long would a radio transmission take to reach Covenant space? 500 years?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 7:50 pm
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FreemanCorporeal
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Mike_Was wrote:
Freeman wrote:
Idea: Someone ask her to access the file containing her mission. When that's done, ask her when it was last modified, and then ask her the launch date of the Apocalypso. Then ask her who modified it. If and when she says SPDR, you might say that it is operating outside of it's parameters and should be deleted and reloaded from version whatever the original SPDR was.


I like this idea.

But here's an interesting question. How do we know Melissa's "original mission" isn't the corrupted also/instead?


Don't most files keep a log of their last edit? Like under "Properties" in Windows? We might be able to see if an edit post-dates the mission file's creation. I don't know what we could do for corruption, though. Maybe she has a quarantined copy someplace in case of the original being tampered with.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:02 am
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Avatrix
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Reversal of roles

Astald wrote:
I've been toying with that spec a little as well. That the flea may be a spy for some organization, maybe Herzog's. Then it would make sense that he built those axons, because they resulted in a connection to the future, which could just be the flea trying to report back. I am still unsure why it would have connected to Durga though. But the truth the flea could be looking for is what was covered up by the murders (flu) of the original Apocalypso crew.

To run with this SPEC, and tye it into this spec:
Imagine that someone is trying to erase all the information about the Apocalypso's crash (I believe Standish is a candidate for this). Also imagine someone else (Party B) knows something is fishy about the crash situation, and wants to dig up information. Party B knows that if "they" (Party A) are going to kill crew members, they're going to terminate any AIs as well. Party B assumes Party A has sent an AI assasain (the assasain need not be an AI, but a program), and sends an program helper.
The Party B program's goal? Reveal the Truth (to Party B).

So, with this in mind, what is the SP is the dangerous element, and the Flea is actually trying to reveal what happened? Instead of focusing on the Flea trying to reveal Earth's location to the Covenant, he's revealing the Truth of events within the human sphere. Not only is this the Flea's mantra, but he has specifically dug up Melissa's memories that might not have been revealed otherwise.

This also leads me to believe that Melissa's trip through time might not be a result of the Apocalypso crash. Greene survived the crash--she had to, otherwise she couldn't have been hit by the bus. What if Standish attempted to assassinate Melissa in the future, AFTER the crash, but something went wrong--she was mostly damaged, but survived to be rebuilt? This could have split Durga/Melissa too--Durga reported three Navi Sentinals pursuing her.

I know this spec has some holes, and goes against some of the "accepted" facts. But sometimes you have to put away what you "know", and someone might have insight on how to fill this out.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:45 am
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Shad0
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Re: Reversal of roles

Avatrix wrote:
Astald wrote:
I've been toying with that spec a little as well. That the flea may be a spy for some organization, maybe Herzog's. Then it would make sense that he built those axons, because they resulted in a connection to the future, which could just be the flea trying to report back. I am still unsure why it would have connected to Durga though. But the truth the flea could be looking for is what was covered up by the murders (flu) of the original Apocalypso crew.

To run with this SPEC, and tye it into this spec:
Imagine that someone is trying to erase all the information about the Apocalypso's crash (I believe Standish is a candidate for this). Also imagine someone else (Party B) knows something is fishy about the crash situation, and wants to dig up information. Party B knows that if "they" (Party A) are going to kill crew members, they're going to terminate any AIs as well. Party B assumes Party A has sent an AI assasain (the assasain need not be an AI, but a program), and sends an program helper.
The Party B program's goal? Reveal the Truth (to Party B).

So, with this in mind, what is the SP is the dangerous element, and the Flea is actually trying to reveal what happened? Instead of focusing on the Flea trying to reveal Earth's location to the Covenant, he's revealing the Truth of events within the human sphere. Not only is this the Flea's mantra, but he has specifically dug up Melissa's memories that might not have been revealed otherwise.

As the person who originally (on the Wiki) characterized the SPDR-Flea exchanges as taking place in the midst of the Pious Flea's attempts to "dig up" those two Melissa memories, I freely admit that it was just my first impression, not based on any particular in-game facts. It's possible that the Flea was doing nothing of the kind.

However, as I have been slogging determinedly through the past five days of speculation in an attempt to get caught up -- and I did it, yay! -- certain things have begun to crystallize in my head, along the same lines as y'all are thinking. I just posted it in this thread, but now it looks as if it might have been just as appropriate over here. Here are the highlights:

First, the more I think about it, the more inclined I am to think that McKaskill's "old guy" is Herzog. I think Herzog was aboard the Apocalypso, spoke to McKaskill, and asked him to keep his eyes open and let him know if the ship stumbled upon anything interesting. (Like, say, "a new piece of ... technology capable of crippling an entire solar system's C&C channels.")

I also think that Herzog, when he was on the ship, deliberately introduced The Pious Flea into Melissa's system. The Flea's job was to seek, behold, and reveal the truth -- probably to Herzog, originally -- and stay out of Melissa's sight. He was never supposed to interfere with her functions directly. However, when the Flea became trapped in the past and couldn't reach Herzog, he reprogrammed Melissa to get her to reveal the truth herself...but to us! Very Happy

If I'm correct, then this could also explain why Melissa is suppressing these "secret" memories from Durga's awareness, as indicated on hives.html:

Melissa wrote:
I have been suppressing certain voices from the awareness of Durga.

Durga is in the same time as Herzog, and the Flea doesn't want his boss to get caught! Mr. Green

I don't really know in which of these two threads we ought to be discussing this spec, since it's about both the Flea (this thread) and the "truth" (the other thread). Somebody pick one.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:57 pm
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MeKiwi
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Shad0, I think this is brilliant. In fact, I think I can add more spec to your spec and have it work out nicely together...

[ALL SPEC]

1. Durga is an AI sent by whoever is performing the murder/coverups (ONI?) and is out to find Melissa. That's why Melissa/Flea are supressing the voices from Durga (as you said).

2. Herzog's Flea is the one creating the mirrors and reflecting information searches... acting as a sort of firewall. Durga runs queries on Melissa and is reflected to bees, etc.

3. [wild spec] It's even possible that Melissa was infected not with a Covie virus but instead a Forerunner virus -- SP. This hybrid AI might be what ONI is after and is keeping so secret. Whatever caused the timetravel also knocked the Melissa/SP combo out of commission and the SPDR repaired Melissa to original specs (or somewhat close) and that's why Melissa wants to lock up the SP but not eliminate her. (Shad0, this would also explain the Stormy Weather connection we talked about here.)

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:10 pm
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Nuriko
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Has anyone tried to !attach or !grope the flea? I wonder how that would turn out.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:13 pm
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MeKiwi
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MeKiwi wrote:
3. [wild spec] It's even possible that Melissa was infected not with a Covie virus but instead a Forerunner virus -- SP.


Screw that! If you really want to go all conspiracy theorist, you could say that the SP is the virus-AI and that she is not Covie, not Forerunner, but human... ONI, to be precise. Maybe her language routines were damaged in the "crash".

Okay, so that's a long shot. I'd have to say my guess is still Forerunner. If she were ONI, she'd probably be a lot more proactive.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:17 pm
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Atoner
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Blood Sucking Vermin wrote:

seeker > !attach Princess sec proc
survive
evade
escape
resist


Note the beginning -- it looks like he is attaching to the SP's "sec proc" -- security procedures maybe? He then transmits to it "Survive Evade Resist Escape".

This could mean a whole lot of things. It seems to indicate that either
(1) The Flea has absorbed some part of Melissa into himself, since that was her mantra, or
(2) SP has a closer relationship to Melissa than we realized... perhaps they are parts of the same whole as has been spec'ed before, I believe, and this is just another sign pointing to it. Otherwise, why would it have any significance to SP?

-Atoner-

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:22 pm
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MeKiwi
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Atoner wrote:
Blood Sucking Vermin wrote:

seeker > !attach Princess sec proc
survive
evade
escape
resist


Note the beginning -- it looks like he is attaching to the SP's "sec proc" -- security procedures maybe? He then transmits to it "Survive Evade Resist Escape".

This could mean a whole lot of things. It seems to indicate that either
(1) The Flea has absorbed some part of Melissa into himself, since that was her mantra, or
(2) SP has a closer relationship to Melissa than we realized... perhaps they are parts of the same whole as has been spec'ed before, I believe, and this is just another sign pointing to it. Otherwise, why would it have any significance to SP?

-Atoner-


Playing into Shad0's spec above, I read this differently. This is how I see the whole story (in chrono order):


[ALL SPEC]

Apocolypso is on stealth mission monitoring Covenant transmissions.

Apocolypso discovers and picks up Forerunner artifact.

Forerunner AI escapes artifact, "infects" Melissa, and is actually the "virus" Melissa thinks she's been infected by.

Apocolypso disobeys Cole Protocol because of the importance of the Forerunner artifact. Returns to Earth and "crashes" out of slipspace into lunar orbit.

ONI doesn't want the info about the artifact (or possibly the Melissa/Forerunner hybrid AI) to get out. They try to kill all the crew and send Durga to wipe out Melissa in a grand coverup.

Herzog discovers ONI is up to something (thanks to his conversation with Capt. Greene and her subsequent "accident") and sends the Flea to get the truth before Melissa is wiped out.

Durga penetrates Melissa's "defenses" and starts wiping/transferring memories. She learns of the Castaway from Melissa's memories.

Melissa/Forerunner hybrid AI senses this intrusion, and thanks to Forerunner abilities, is somehow able to create a *crazy time travel event*

Time travel event knocks Melissa/Forerunner hybrid AI out of commission.

SPDR begins to repair Melissa to original specs but has to wipe out memories to proceed.

Herzog's Flea intervenes in order to save memories and THE TRUTH. Replaces Melissa's "Resist" with "Reveal" for TRUTH-telling purposes.

Melissa detects Dana's intrusion and believes Dana is Durga, hence "the Assassin."

Melissa/SP hybrid wakes up, calls herself Sleeping Princess.

ONI, now with no idea where Melissa has gone, scans the memories Durga was able to D/L before the time travel event and identifies the castaway. Unable to locate the actual person, ONI transmits Durga to his son's computer. Since ONI sent Durga, Durga thinks it's a random accident that she ended up on Jersey's machine (from by_accident).

Durga uses Jersey's machine to "ping" Melissa.

Flea creates mirrors to reflect "pings". Durga receives reflected pings as bee-related info...

Melissa recognizes Durga, suppresses "certain voices" from her to protect herself.

Newly rebuilt Melissa senses SP, captures it but realizing her importance does not eliminate the SP.

Flea wants to know more about SP, as it pertains to the TRUTH. Tries to help free SP.

SP is freed. Flea offers SP his security procedures (SERE) to help SP avoid Melissa.

[END TOTAL SPEC]


And that just about brings us up to where we are now...

Notice that the Flea's true security procedures are the correct four,
survive
evade
escape
resist.
He intentionally changes Melissa's "resist" to "reveal" so that he can complete his mission, to reveal the TRUTH (to Herzog).

Whew. What do you all think?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:51 pm
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Howdareyou
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Whoa. That's some deep stuff, and now the flea having SERE as a security measure makes sense!
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:07 pm
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