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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): Interaction
[INTERACTION] Response from Dana
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Incitatus
Unfettered


Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 487
Location: Austin, Texas

 		OK STOP RIGHT THERE.

You are all forgetting, DANA is not a real person. she is another character in the game.

More so, we have been theorizing and Speculating on the exact nature/relationship of these charaters and their goals.

To this date we have seen no major goal completed. While I think it best to convince Mel that dana is of no consiquence, and that she has been manipulated by the PF, we have seen that this will not work (9-28 phone calls)

I think our best course of action is to deliver either Dana or the SP to Mel.

The SP is almost essential to be delivered to Mel. Because as I have theorized for a while, and has been given substantial proof as of late, the SP IS the donor persona of the AI contruct. She must be reintegrated with Mel. that is the only way that Mel will become more stable, not to mention more capable of thinking.

Consider this:
If all the human personality traits that Mel has shown to lack (IE: compassion, humor, forgiveness*) are contained on the donor-persona that the AI is centered on (Core Module, "I was INSIDE the queen"-sp). Then ONLY by reintegrating the SP with Mel, will we open her up to reason with regards to Dana and the PF.


I think that it is the only way. And I think we are deliberatly and very obviously being coxed into protecting the SP. (The child's voice, the scared and innocent mindset)
While her/others comments have dirrectly indicated that she is the donor persona.
Her brother... and other memories, wiped.
She is quoted as saying "while i was INSIDE the queen..."
Mel reffered to her escape as a "Core Module Hemorage"
Mel seemed to be able to grasp certain human concepts such as emapthy and concern during the Live calls up until the release of the SP.

WE MUST DO ALL WE CAN TO REINTEGRATE THE TWO.

That is the only way to continue.

Anything else is working against that goal, and stalling the progression.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:53 am
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HitsHerMark
Unfictologist


Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1521
Location: Austin, TX
Incitatus wrote:
OK STOP RIGHT THERE.


Whoa, dude, chill.

Quote:

You are all forgetting, DANA is not a real person. she is another character in the game.


Haven't forgotten it at all, but just because Dana "isn't real" doesn't mean we should abandon all rational thought.

Quote:

WE MUST DO ALL WE CAN TO REINTEGRATE THE TWO.


I agree, but letting Melissa shut the SP away in the glass coffin is not integration... It's just shoving all of that human emotion away into an archive where it doesn't get accessed ever.

And Melissa showed compassion and other, more tender, emotions before she recaptured the SP, so I doubt that the captivity had any effect on her one way or the other. (Though it certainly seems to have given the SP a new point of view...)

Quote:

That is the only way to continue.

Anything else is working against that goal, and stalling the progression.


Well, we need to figure out how to do it no matter what.

Letting her get at Dana would just prove a distraction... Though I suppose it would force the SP's hand, if she really were interested in protecting Dana.

We need to start trying to get information out of Melissa when we talk to her. And that can be done in ways other then right out asking her questions.

We have to start getting devious with her.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:13 am
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Incitatus
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Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 487
Location: Austin, Texas
HitsHerMark wrote:
Incitatus wrote:
OK STOP RIGHT THERE.


Whoa, dude, chill.

Quote:

You are all forgetting, DANA is not a real person. she is another character in the game.


Haven't forgotten it at all, but just because Dana "isn't real" doesn't mean we should abandon all rational thought.

Quote:

WE MUST DO ALL WE CAN TO REINTEGRATE THE TWO.


I agree, but letting Melissa shut the SP away in the glass coffin is not integration... It's just shoving all of that human emotion away into an archive where it doesn't get accessed ever.

And Melissa showed compassion and other, more tender, emotions before she recaptured the SP, so I doubt that the captivity had any effect on her one way or the other. (Though it certainly seems to have given the SP a new point of view...)

Quote:

That is the only way to continue.

Anything else is working against that goal, and stalling the progression.


Well, we need to figure out how to do it no matter what.

Letting her get at Dana would just prove a distraction... Though I suppose it would force the SP's hand, if she really were interested in protecting Dana.

We need to start trying to get information out of Melissa when we talk to her. And that can be done in ways other then right out asking her questions.

We have to start getting devious with her.



agreed.

However I will contest a statement or two:

1) According to.. well my/Supermega's theory, The glass coffin is glass, because while it seals the Princess away, it also allows a non-interactive refference. Glass= see-though. Possibly, as my associate believes a mirror.

2) Mel only showed basic emotions prior to the SP's capture. and these were all "tactical" emotions. ones which assisted her goal. she displayed a survival instinct, nothing more. She could not grasp basic concepts as we heard from the first live calls. for instance, humor.
Prior to the release of the SP, she became very different in live calls. She sang with some, became empathetic when faced with intensly emotional situations...
and that brings me to the giveaway:

When she accessed more intense emotional reactions, she broke down and the SP grew dominant. These accesses were triggered by refferencing the captian, or bringing up a particularly sad/emotional story. This indicates that the SP is used as a refference guide for this purpose.
how and why the SP was able to surface dominantly at this... well i can only guess...
I suspect that mabey it is the PF, or the damage in the "coffin". otherwise it may just be a continued sign of damage to Mel.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:29 am
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HitsHerMark
Unfictologist


Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1521
Location: Austin, TX

 		I like the idea about being able to see through the glass.

But she was doing the breaking down thing before she recaptured the SP.

Like when Dragonrider brought up her sister.

That's how we knew what "when she breaks down" meant!

I will grant you, that she seemed more emotional while she had the SP in her, and it was emotion that let the SP come to the front...

But I don't really think you can say that she has nothing that resembles the more human emotions without her.

The real proof in the pudding will be if somebody can get her to break down now.

Now that the Princess is free...

Though I'm not sure what to do if one were to get that to happen...
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:51 am
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Incitatus
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Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 487
Location: Austin, Texas

 		I'm also unsure as to what would happen... it may be that the PMs will work around that and not allow it to occur...
unless of course I am wrong...
Regardless i think what happens tomorrow will prove or disprove my theory on the actual relationships... at least in part...
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:07 am
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bcriswell
Veteran

Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 136
Location: Oxford, England
Incitatus wrote:
OK STOP RIGHT THERE.

You are all forgetting, DANA is not a real person. she is another character in the game.

More so, we have been theorizing and Speculating on the exact nature/relationship of these charaters and their goals.

To this date we have seen no major goal completed. While I think it best to convince Mel that dana is of no consiquence, and that she has been manipulated by the PF, we have seen that this will not work (9-28 phone calls)

I think our best course of action is to deliver either Dana or the SP to Mel.

The SP is almost essential to be delivered to Mel. Because as I have theorized for a while, and has been given substantial proof as of late, the SP IS the donor persona of the AI contruct. She must be reintegrated with Mel. that is the only way that Mel will become more stable, not to mention more capable of thinking.

Consider this:
If all the human personality traits that Mel has shown to lack (IE: compassion, humor, forgiveness*) are contained on the donor-persona that the AI is centered on (Core Module, "I was INSIDE the queen"-sp). Then ONLY by reintegrating the SP with Mel, will we open her up to reason with regards to Dana and the PF.


I think that it is the only way. And I think we are deliberatly and very obviously being coxed into protecting the SP. (The child's voice, the scared and innocent mindset)
While her/others comments have dirrectly indicated that she is the donor persona.
Her brother... and other memories, wiped.
She is quoted as saying "while i was INSIDE the queen..."
Mel reffered to her escape as a "Core Module Hemorage"
Mel seemed to be able to grasp certain human concepts such as emapthy and concern during the Live calls up until the release of the SP.

WE MUST DO ALL WE CAN TO REINTEGRATE THE TWO.

That is the only way to continue.

Anything else is working against that goal, and stalling the progression.

(I am copying my response to a similar post instead of linking as a response to this in the other thread would derail the other thread.)

bcriswell wrote:
However, the idea is to make these decisions "in game." We have one shot at this game. There are no resets, saves or extra lives. We should be playing this game as well as possible, not poking and prodding to see what happens or what will advance the game as quickly as possible. We already have advancement for this week. Durga now knows about Herzog, the artifact, the Apocolypso, Captain Greene and Chawla base (assuming she realises that the Herzog files were hidden from her and finds the files other than the ones we directly sent to her). Durga's, Melissa's, the Flea's, SP's and Dana's reactions to this will give us more information as to the next step, and it would behoove us to not try potentially irreversible things just to see what happens or get 15 minutes of fame (and no, I am not referring to Weephun here).

The interaction aspect of this game has opened a dangerous precedent for the community at large as it only takes one person to potentially kill Dana. Now, Melissa may not decide to try to kill Dana, but she certainly has been talking as if she wants to kill Dana.


The same goes for SP. Giving up SP just to advance the game could place us in a situation where we lose SP permanently. There may be no integration. Melissa's focus might even change when she learns the confidential files were sent to Durga. Most certainly, this is not the only way to continue. It is just the only way you see as moving the plot forward quickly enough for you. We also have seen a major goal completed: the answering of 777 axons and getting Melissa to trust us more.

There has also been plenty of in game information to lend to Melissa and SP being separate entities.
SP saying she is much older than the queen.
Donor personas coming from human brains, not other AIs
Melissa exhibiting emotions well before capturing SP.

Integration may prove to be the answer, but we will get more information to prove that if it is the case. It is not a situation where we must force it now to achieve the next goal when we are not sure if that even is the next goal.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 4:49 am
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jellyfish_green
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Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 144
Location: Inner Colony of Eire

 		One thing stands out -

If you're going to play both sides of the game, you might be better off with TWO aliases. And it's up to you to keep them straight in-game. Never mind avoiding forum-wrath and infighting.

One where you are the loyal crew-member, and will faithfully help Melissa track assassins and rogues to the best of your ability.

And another where you would never betray the SP, and she and Dana will both confide in you their deepest secrets, hidden wavs, and locations.

That way, if Melissa IS now monitoring Dana's communication lines, your status as loyal crew member isn't threatened, which would just give you an additional battle to fight, right?

Dragonrider got this. He no longer wants to send email to Dana from the Dragonrider address.

Just a thought, from cold axon country. JFG

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:10 am
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krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 26 Sep 2002
Posts: 3651
Location: Is not Chicago
Incitatus wrote:

You are all forgetting, DANA is not a real person. she is another character in the game.


I see this assertion pop up from time to time, and it always turns out to be at least a little insulting, depending on the history of the poster, and the delivery method.

In order to continue on with this game, and to enjoy the immersiveness of it as much as possible, it behooves us to treat her as real, even though in the back of our heads we're all quite aware that we're playing a game.

Understanding motivation and consequence is much, much easier when you treat them as motivation and consequence, rather than Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right AB Start.

Pushing people into meta territory is tweaking the broad borders of etiquette we seem to have engendered here on these boards. Spec all you like, but your speculation and contributions tend to be better received when you don't tell people how to play.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 8:06 am
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Kazic
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 338
Location: High Point, NC

 		Could someone give me the Sp's new page address? Where isshe "hiding" these days?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 8:13 am
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krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 26 Sep 2002
Posts: 3651
Location: Is not Chicago

 		contactme.html

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 8:15 am
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Kazic
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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 		Thanks krystyn.
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The likelihood of world peace becoming a reality is about the same as a poke'mon materializing out of your DS and actually thanking you for your considerate care.

Playing: Star Trek and AID the World

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 8:24 am
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HitsHerMark
Unfictologist


Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1521
Location: Austin, TX
krystyn wrote:
Incitatus wrote:

You are all forgetting, DANA is not a real person. she is another character in the game.


I see this assertion pop up from time to time, and it always turns out to be at least a little insulting, depending on the history of the poster, and the delivery method.

In order to continue on with this game, and to enjoy the immersiveness of it as much as possible, it behooves us to treat her as real, even though in the back of our heads we're all quite aware that we're playing a game.

Understanding motivation and consequence is much, much easier when you treat them as motivation and consequence, rather than Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right AB Start.

Pushing people into meta territory is tweaking the broad borders of etiquette we seem to have engendered here on these boards. Spec all you like, but your speculation and contributions tend to be better received when you don't tell people how to play.


Here here!
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:05 pm
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TheDuder
Boot


Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 47
Location: PEI, Canada
krystyn wrote:

Understanding motivation and consequence is much, much easier when you treat them as motivation and consequence, rather than Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right AB Start.


30 lives in Contra anyone...
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:51 pm
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Jeeeeeeee
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Joined: 26 Aug 2004
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Location: Montréal, Québec, Canada
TheDuder wrote:
krystyn wrote:

Understanding motivation and consequence is much, much easier when you treat them as motivation and consequence, rather than Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right AB Start.


30 lives in Contra anyone...


probably not... in Contra it was B A Start... Wink

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:09 pm
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RandMod6
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Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Posts: 85
Location: 46.875805 -096.784945

 		Border Tweaking Spec RE: 'realness'
Quote:
You are all forgetting, DANA is not a real person. she is another
character in the game.

Quote:
Pushing people into meta territory is tweaking the broad borders of etiquette we seem to have engendered here on these boards.

At the risk of 'border tweaking', speculating as to the 'realness' of Dana is all rather relative. As far as I know, you are no more real (use whatever definition of real you want) to me than she is. Case in point: while brooding over the fact that I've yet to get a live call, a friend suggested the possiblity that there were no live calls, and people who claimed to receive them were actually fictious products of PMs to spur the players on in the hopes of receiving some higher level interaction w/ Melissa. I honestly had never considered this and it did a little more than tweak my reality/ARG border. Then I realized it didn't matter either way - you could all just as easily be the fictious products of Melissa, SP or PF; for that matter, so could I...

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:38 pm
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