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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
[INFO] The Wiki Thread
Moderators: Giskard, JKatkina, Zarggg
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JKatkinaModerator
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redherring wrote:
Seeing as I sort of found myself in the midst of a tiny conflict-o-interests on the Call for Volunteers thread, I'd like to propose something awakeasaurusrex brought up as a possibility to make the Slenderman/Operator pages mesh more.

awakeasaurusrex wrote:
Here's what I'd ask: why give a full page to Slender Man that is devoted almost entirely to concepts from outside of the game?

Make "Slender Man" a subsection of the main Operator page and include a brief writeup in there covering the origin of the concept, its influence on MH, and toss in a disclaimer that the MH guys have their own interpretation of the myth - hence their use of the term "Operator" - and that no Slendy-related material that doesn't originate within Marble Hornets itself should be taken as shedding any light on Marble Hornets because the creators aren't bound to sticking to someone else's canon.

At the moment the Slender Man page seems to be almost entirely devoted to two things:
- References to non-MH sources like the Victor Surge pics and Just Another Fool, which should be purged from the wiki entirely because they're not about Marble Hornets.
- Redundant information such as a list of sightings of Slendy in MH, which should really be on the Operator page.


I'd be perfectly willing to take care of this if you guys think it'd be worthwhile. I really don't see why we have two pages for this stuff. Also, if you know of a way to change/add links to the sidebar, I'd love your help with that. For some reason, I can only add new pages, but not add/delete existing pages. Is this something we just don't have access to?


Jeez, yeah. I 100% support the idea of moving all the relevant information to the Operator page. Maybe leave the Slenderman page up, but only as a couple-line exposition that "Slender Man is a name often used to refer to the Operator erroneously; see relevant theories on the Operator page" or something. And replace it in the sidebar with the Operator. Neutral

As for the sidebar, let me check. I know I've done it before... hmm. You go 'edit this panel', and THEN you have to go down to the bottom of that page again and click 'edit' like you would on a normal page. Then you get into the coding stuff like normal and it's all good.

Additionally, I was recently looking at the "Theories" page and wondering about the relevance of it. Wouldn't it be more effective and tidier to put all of those theories on the pages of the actual things that they're theorizing about? Like, character theories go on character pages; hell, there's already a page for the Ark, which is damn handy to link to when the Ark is referred to in other articles. Linking to a general "theories" page would make less sense.

I've also been wondering a little bit about the WAYS that theories are posted... I think it would be a lot more valuable for newbies if there was an objective write-up of existing theories, rather than people theorizing directly on the wiki. :/ Personal theories presented on the wiki as fact seems misleading and will only present a one-sided view of an issue -- really, that stuff belongs on the forum...

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:23 pm
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redherring
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JKatkina wrote:
redherring wrote:
Seeing as I sort of found myself in the midst of a tiny conflict-o-interests on the Call for Volunteers thread, I'd like to propose something awakeasaurusrex brought up as a possibility to make the Slenderman/Operator pages mesh more.

awakeasaurusrex wrote:
Here's what I'd ask: why give a full page to Slender Man that is devoted almost entirely to concepts from outside of the game?

Make "Slender Man" a subsection of the main Operator page and include a brief writeup in there covering the origin of the concept, its influence on MH, and toss in a disclaimer that the MH guys have their own interpretation of the myth - hence their use of the term "Operator" - and that no Slendy-related material that doesn't originate within Marble Hornets itself should be taken as shedding any light on Marble Hornets because the creators aren't bound to sticking to someone else's canon.

At the moment the Slender Man page seems to be almost entirely devoted to two things:
- References to non-MH sources like the Victor Surge pics and Just Another Fool, which should be purged from the wiki entirely because they're not about Marble Hornets.
- Redundant information such as a list of sightings of Slendy in MH, which should really be on the Operator page.


I'd be perfectly willing to take care of this if you guys think it'd be worthwhile. I really don't see why we have two pages for this stuff. Also, if you know of a way to change/add links to the sidebar, I'd love your help with that. For some reason, I can only add new pages, but not add/delete existing pages. Is this something we just don't have access to?


Jeez, yeah. I 100% support the idea of moving all the relevant information to the Operator page. Maybe leave the Slenderman page up, but only as a couple-line exposition that "Slender Man is a name often used to refer to the Operator erroneously; see relevant theories on the Operator page" or something. And replace it in the sidebar with the Operator. Neutral

As for the sidebar, let me check. I know I've done it before... hmm. You go 'edit this panel', and THEN you have to go down to the bottom of that page again and click 'edit' like you would on a normal page. Then you get into the coding stuff like normal and it's all good.

Additionally, I was recently looking at the "Theories" page and wondering about the relevance of it. Wouldn't it be more effective and tidier to put all of those theories on the pages of the actual things that they're theorizing about? Like, character theories go on character pages; hell, there's already a page for the Ark, which is damn handy to link to when the Ark is referred to in other articles. Linking to a general "theories" page would make less sense.

I've also been wondering a little bit about the WAYS that theories are posted... I think it would be a lot more valuable for newbies if there was an objective write-up of existing theories, rather than people theorizing directly on the wiki. :/ Personal theories presented on the wiki as fact seems misleading and will only present a one-sided view of an issue -- really, that stuff belongs on the forum...


Awesome! I'll get on it when I get home from class today. Thanks, JKat!
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:18 pm
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redherring
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Many apologies for the double post! Embarassed I honestly hate doing this, but it didn't make much sense to tack this into my last post, so there you go.

I've made a few updates to the Wiki that I thought should be mentioned.

The Operator and Slender Man pages have been updated to more accurately reflect the information relevant to Marble Hornets. The Slender Man article now refers only to the mythos of Slender Man and has references to other articles on the Wiki that are relevant.

The Operator article contains MH-specific mythology as well as all appearances in the series. Also, the data was split into more succinct categories for easier reading and a bit of editing was done (made pronouns referring to The Operator 'it' since there's no certainty that it is a 'he', replaced ampersands with the word 'and', etc.). Table of contents added to each page.

Slight modifications were made to clean up the Just Another Fool article, including moving the 'Appearances' from the Slender Man page into the article and reformatting the hierarchies to better suit a Table of Contents.

Some major updates were made to the articles for Brian, Tim, and Seth, and a new page was created for Sarah since none existed previously. New pictures were put onto each page, and data on each page was split into categories for easier reading and searching. Table of contents added to each of these pages.

I also fixed up the Cast section on the Marble Hornets article as well since it's pretty clear that Seth, Jay, and Alex were all involved in working the camera at one point or another during shooting and that Jay was (although a bit sarcastically so) referred to as an assistant in the entries.

So yeah! Hopefully this all 'meshes' well and it suitable for the wiki! ^_^''


EDIT: Oh, so totally forgot to put up the screen caps I took! Embarassed

They're up now - several images on the Operator thread and one (from DavFlamerock) for the Slender Man page. I also threw up an image on the page for 'The Mask' since it was kind of... bare. Razz
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:59 pm
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JKatkinaModerator
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redherring, I love you so much right now. All my editing lately has been trying to get the Entries really comprehensively up-to-date with theories and stuff, and it is SO NICE to see someone working on the other parts of the wiki. Very Happy You've done a lovely job with the character pages, and an excellent job splitting up the Operator and Slender Man pages.

Is there anything in particular that you're planning on tackling next?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:48 pm
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redherring
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JKatkina wrote:
redherring, I love you so much right now. All my editing lately has been trying to get the Entries really comprehensively up-to-date with theories and stuff, and it is SO NICE to see someone working on the other parts of the wiki. Very Happy You've done a lovely job with the character pages, and an excellent job splitting up the Operator and Slender Man pages.

Is there anything in particular that you're planning on tackling next?


The crapton of homework I have to do over Spring Break. ^_^''

But in relation to the wiki, I'd really like to find an hour or two to sit down and look at the entries without transcripts (in particular, I REALLY want to do #16, which is lacking in that department and shouldn't be) since those are really useful for citations when making theories. It's a lot easier than sitting through some of the longer entries and waiting for something to happen, and I know it's something I (as a fan) would appreciate having.

That said, if there's anything you think I'd be good to work on in particular, please let me know! I've been saying for about two weeks now I want to do a #16 transcript and look how much of that's been done so far. Razz

Also, thanks for the support! I'm glad my efforts are appreciated Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:05 pm
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awakeasaurusrex
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Another suggestion of mine from the other thread: isn't it time all the Just Another Fool material was purged from the wiki? It might have made sense to have it on there when the only slendyblogs/vlogs out there were MH and JAF, but at this point it's just going to cause confusion. There's no good reason to include *so much* detail of a non-MH story on the MH wiki, not when there's so many other venues to post information about other Slender Man mythos tales.

It's especially silly because I can name about a dozen side stories which are more significant on the scene than JAF was without really even straining. Why is JAF so special that it needs to clutter up the wiki and make people think it's part of MH canon?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:17 pm
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redherring
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awakeasaurusrex wrote:
Another suggestion of mine from the other thread: isn't it time all the Just Another Fool material was purged from the wiki? It might have made sense to have it on there when the only slendyblogs/vlogs out there were MH and JAF, but at this point it's just going to cause confusion. There's no good reason to include *so much* detail of a non-MH story on the MH wiki, not when there's so many other venues to post information about other Slender Man mythos tales.

It's especially silly because I can name about a dozen side stories which are more significant on the scene than JAF was without really even straining. Why is JAF so special that it needs to clutter up the wiki and make people think it's part of MH canon?


Maybe we just make an official JAF wiki and move it all there?

I only left it and rearranged it because I didn't want to purge it and have it lost in case somebody does go looking for it at some point. That said, it really does need to find a new home.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:42 pm
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JKatkinaModerator
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Repeating what I said in that other thread, only admins have deleting power (I tried). Send that particular suggestion straight to Dav, he'll be able to do something about it!

redherring, a #16 transcript sounds rad! But I mean, if you had time aside from or after that, compiling theories from the forum about various characters would be really helpful. Compiling theories is the most durn time-consuming part of the pages, but it's reallllly nice to have them!

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:00 pm
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Zeta Kai
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Hey, JKat, I've noticed that you have been adding Observations and Theories sections to every entry page on the wiki. But why? They already have Speculation & Analysis sections. What's the difference? How is an Observation really different than an Analysis, or a Theory really different than a Speculation? Not to knock your work, but it just seems superfluous to me, & it could easily lead to confusion as to where to put something.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:40 pm
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JKatkinaModerator
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Zeta Kai wrote:
Hey, JKat, I've noticed that you have been adding Observations and Theories sections to every entry page on the wiki. But why? They already have Speculation & Analysis sections. What's the difference? How is an Observation really different than an Analysis, or a Theory really different than a Speculation? Not to knock your work, but it just seems superfluous to me, & it could easily lead to confusion as to where to put something.


The difference is mainly that for the Observations and Theories section, the ideas is to go through the thread applicable to the entry from the unfiction forum and compile the relevant theories from everyone involved, whether or not they're things that you individually think are right or wrong, while the Spec and Analysis section seems to lend itself better to individual people coming in and adding their personal thoughts directly to the wiki. It just seems tidier if there's one place for objectively compiled theories, and one place for people to be able to have a little bit of back-and-forth if they want it (which I've noticed on some of the pages), rather than presenting individual peoples' theories as the only ones. (Just to note, I've also been moving some of the stuff, like some of Dav's nicely compiled bits, out of Spec and Analysis and into Obs and Theories. I try to leave most of the Spec and Analysis untouched, but if something does a really keen job of summarizing multiple peoples' viewpoints, I'll try to do it justice and fold it into the Obs and Theories section!) There's just a lot of really wonderful theorizing going on in these threads that really shouldn't be wasted just because not everyone can edit the wiki.

I guess the naming is a bit silly. I kind of pulled the section title out of my ass. Given the above info, what would you suggest changing the section names to? "Compiled Theories and Analysis" and "Individual Theories" or something?

Anyways, I think if there was some way to make it clear that one was theories compiled from a pre-existing multi-person thread whereas the other was a place for people to come in and comment on the entries themselves, confusion as to where to put things could be avoided -- I thought people signing the theories that they'd put there was a good way to do that, the way the wiki folks were doing it before.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:52 pm
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MarbleArk
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I recently signed up so I could add a picture of Jessica, but it said only members of this site, site administrators and selected mods can edit it?

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:53 pm
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JKatkinaModerator
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MarbleArk wrote:
I recently signed up so I could add a picture of Jessica, but it said only members of this site, site administrators and selected mods can edit it?


Yeah, there's this unfortunate thing where the admin has to grant you access to edit the wiki. :/

PM Dav Flamerock, he's usually pretty good about getting you access within a couple of days!

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:10 pm
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redherring
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JKatkina wrote:
redherring, a #16 transcript sounds rad! But I mean, if you had time aside from or after that, compiling theories from the forum about various characters would be really helpful. Compiling theories is the most durn time-consuming part of the pages, but it's reallllly nice to have them!


Totally, once things settle down for me I'm going to try to do some work on this stuff, so I'll keep that in mind.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:52 am
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Spacechicken
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Hi. I'm new here and am interested in helping add to the wiki. I already got access from DevFlamerock to edit.

I wanted to get permission before attempting some changes.

I think it would be nice to standardize the way video transcripts are written. For the first 11 entries they are written the same way, a short summary followed by a more detailed version that includes the exact times of quotes and events in the video. However, later entries have transcripts written in different styles and formats. If it is okay with everyone, I think we should work to write/reformat the other video transcripts to look like entries 1-11.

Also, I find the difference between the "Observations and Theories" and "Speculation and Analysis" section on the video pages unclear. Could anyone explain what should be put in each section? Could they just be combined into one section?

Thanks

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:02 pm
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JKatkinaModerator
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Spacechicken wrote:
Hi. I'm new here and am interested in helping add to the wiki. I already got access from DevFlamerock to edit.

I wanted to get permission before attempting some changes.

I think it would be nice to standardize the way video transcripts are written. For the first 11 entries they are written the same way, a short summary followed by a more detailed version that includes the exact times of quotes and events in the video. However, later entries have transcripts written in different styles and formats. If it is okay with everyone, I think we should work to write/reformat the other video transcripts to look like entries 1-11.

Also, I find the difference between the "Observations and Theories" and "Speculation and Analysis" section on the video pages unclear. Could anyone explain what should be put in each section? Could they just be combined into one section?

Thanks

Absolutely on your first suggestion! That's actually why 1-11 (and a handful of the later ones, including 21 and 22) are written that way -- I've been going through the entries, writing transcripts for each of them myself in an effort to standardize them exactly as you say. I would LOVE someone else to take on the format and do some of the other entries! There was a movement for people to do so some time ago, but there's been little participation since then, so if you want to tackle the job, please please do.

As for the difference between the two sections, there's a post a few posts previous that explains it in detail, so I'll just quote:

JKatkina wrote:
... for the Observations and Theories section, the point was to go through the forum thread applicable to the entry and compile the relevant theories from everyone involved, whether or not they're things that you individually think are right or wrong, while the Spec and Analysis section seems to lend itself better to individual people coming in and adding their personal thoughts directly to the wiki. ... I try to leave most of the Spec and Analysis untouched, but if something does a really keen job of summarizing multiple peoples' viewpoints, I'll try to do it justice and fold it into the Obs and Theories section. There's just a lot of really wonderful theorizing going on in these threads that really shouldn't be wasted just because not everyone can edit the wiki.

That said, the names are arbitrary and I certainly see now that they should be changed -- maybe to something like "Theories" for the ones from the forums, and "Further Speculation" for the ones from individual wiki members. Still not quite right though, so if anyone else has suggestions I'd be thrilled.

Also, if anyone else wants to take on the monumental task of going through threads to compile theories, please, please step up... my semester has picked up steam again and I probably won't get anything more on the wiki done until I graduate in May.

Spacechicken, by the way, welcome to the forum! :) It's good to see another new face who wants to get involved.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:12 pm
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