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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » Old News & Rumors
[trailhead] Mr Kat is Dead
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amandel
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 4096
Location: Nederland

 		Being a mystery, Zobot, no one knows what's going on. Smile This Wiki Simmary is super & Wallace updated his blog. Plus:

Wallace in an email wrote:
Two playfair codes: Foilhead's one points back to "Tamad shud" the Operation Venona found it on Wikipedia. Curious case of "The Somerton Man", I have actually heard of the case previously perhaps both codes are connected? What were the keys to the previous codes Mr Sun sent you and how did they relate to the decrypted text?

Bill has never heard of Joseph Kat and his brother Tom did not know anything either. I forgot to mention on my recent post that Tom mentioned that Joseph has a garage lockup not far from the flat but the solicitor in charge of the estate has not released the key yet, hopefully something in there will tell us what he was up to.

07: The beginning of something maybe...?1?

Just saw the last posts on the previous page...very interesting stuff, guys. Someone will tell Wallace this, too?
_________________
"I could write a hell of a paper on a grown man who dresses like a flying rodent."
"Can you hook up with a Snow Person? Can't tell you or I'd have to marry you."

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:45 pm
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reesylou
Decorated

Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 260

 		And a new post by Wallace as promised.

No codes, but a heap of little tidbits. Mr Kat is Joseph Kat. And there is another Ripper club matchbook.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:55 pm
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ReygaPrax
Boot

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 46
Location: West Yorkshire, England

 		Did contact Roxy asking for any details regarding his passing or whether Fred himself had a number but:

Roxy Underhill via email wrote:

I'd rather not go into the details of Fred's passing it is quite upsetting to me. Mr Sun didn't have a number that I am aware of.

Roxie Underhill.


We do at least have another section of code.

Have emailed Wallace to update him on Mr Sun's passing.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:01 pm
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amandel
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 4096
Location: Nederland
reesylou wrote:
Does this mean it is NOT Wallace/Louise updating the old site? Will see what else I can find out.

Reesylou, Wallace added this to an earlier email but I felt like a hog posting all the Wallace info & this is also on his blog

Wallace wrote:
The problem with the old site is that Louise no longer remembers it or gets upset when I mention it, obviously someone else has control of it. I suppose it could be this Sun character.


PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:10 pm
Last edited by amandel on Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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reesylou
Decorated

Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 260
ReygaPrax wrote:
Did contact Roxy asking for any details regarding his passing or whether Fred himself had a number but:

Roxy Underhill via email wrote:

I'd rather not go into the details of Fred's passing it is quite upsetting to me. Mr Sun didn't have a number that I am aware of.

Roxie Underhill.


We do at least have another section of code.

Have emailed Wallace to update him on Mr Sun's passing.


Interesting... so C.O.P.S (The Group) are "the numbered", and Fred (FPSun was part of the numbered, but had no number. Why?
Fred also kept his research secret from the numbered and scattered it. Why?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:16 pm
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Zobot257
Entrenched

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 805
Location: Wandering...

 		After getting the Sun email like you all did, I replied back askig about the Numbered and more info about them. Got an unusual response. When I am off work I will post it here.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:18 pm
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amandel
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 4096
Location: Nederland

 		RE: the code string from the FP Sun email, "xrmmheomgvf", which leads directly back to "last possible victim"

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Another keyed Caesar at 0 shift with the key: roxieunderhill

Answer: carrie brown http://tinyurl.com/4dhwvlm http://www.casebook.org/victims/carrie.html

_________________
"I could write a hell of a paper on a grown man who dresses like a flying rodent."
"Can you hook up with a Snow Person? Can't tell you or I'd have to marry you."

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:53 pm
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ReygaPrax
Boot

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 46
Location: West Yorkshire, England
amandel wrote:
RE: the code string from the FP Sun email, "xrmmheomgvf", which leads directly back to "last possible victim"

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Another keyed Caesar at 0 shift with the key: roxieunderhill

Answer: carrie brown http://tinyurl.com/4dhwvlm


Nicely done. Was about to say she was the victim in New York but I see you've linked Smile

After 2 days reading about the Ripper victims last time I was really hoping that would be the end of it. Smile

Did anybody solve this piece of code?

Quote:
pi pe sw pl az km p d mo fr iw pb ku ha ue


PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:04 pm
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reesylou
Decorated

Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 260

 		Going back to work on the original email/code, since we haven't fully solved it and are being prodded to take another look.

Looking at the "Was this a test?" line:
John_Galt wrote:

Going off my sans y result I checked what each word could be: .e.t. and .a.s... The results are only what's in their dictionary, but it's better than nothing. I also did both together which gave a bunch of names of ordinary people, one actor who died a few years ago, and a murder case I can't find any information on.


But the reality is, due to the way the keyed caesar works, the missing letters cannot be ones that are already decrypted. So we have '.e.t. .a.s..' with remaining letters to fill in the gaps of bcdfgjklmnopqruvxyz.

Using a really cool and VERY powerful crossword word finder I just found, that gives us (combining results from all the dictionaries available there):
For .e.t.
bento, benty, berty, celto, cento, centr, certy, centu, dento, denty, deuto, dextr, felty, femto, genty, geoty, gerty, kelty, keyto, lefty, lento, lepto, melty, mento, nerty, nertz, peltz, perty, recto, rento, rentz, vento, ventr, vertu, verty

For .a.s..
barsky, barsom, bauson, carson, causon, damson, dapson, falsum, farson, garson, jansky, jayson, ladson, lamson, larson, madson, mansur, parson, payson, ramson, ransom

(Edit: Carrie Brown doesn't seem to assist as the key to this line)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:29 pm
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amandel
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 4096
Location: Nederland

 		Had some joy with F.P. Sun's keyed Caesar from the Yale file's 2nd line "41 Khnty Cofqig: Woq tepq o thqt?"

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Carrie Brown doesn't work but her nickname "old shakespeare" does at 0 shift

Answer is: "41 Gerty Lamson: Was this a test?" which wiki doesn't <3 & isn't the next key


ETA: An interesting detail is a witness described her being seen with a man with a "Slim build, Long, sharp nose and Heavy moustache of light color." That"s the same description that Wallace's neighbours gave of the "fridge killers" Source HERE
_________________
"I could write a hell of a paper on a grown man who dresses like a flying rodent."
"Can you hook up with a Snow Person? Can't tell you or I'd have to marry you."

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:26 pm
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ReygaPrax
Boot

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 46
Location: West Yorkshire, England
amandel wrote:
Had some joy with F.P. Sun's keyed Caesar from the Yale file's 2nd line "41 Khnty Cofqig: Woq tepq o thqt?"

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Carrie Brown doesn't work but her nickname "old shakespeare" does at 0 shift

Answer is: "41 Gerty Lamson: Was this a test?" which wiki doesn't <3 & isn't the next key


ETA: An interesting detail is a witness described her being seen with a man with a "Slim build, Long, sharp nose and Heavy moustache of light color." That"s the same description that Wallace's neighbours gave of the "fridge killers" Source HERE


Code word from the above is:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
LizzieAndrewBorden


Reasoning as follows:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Gertrude Lamson (formerly Nance O'Neil) 8 October 1874 – 7 February 1965 was a friend of Lizzie Borden. Source

Lizzie Andrew Borden[2] (July 19, 1860 – June 1, 1927) was a New England spinster who was the central figure in the hatchet murders of her father and stepmother on August 4, 1892, in Fall River, Massachusetts, in the United States. The murders, subsequent trial, and ensuing trial by media became a cause célèbre. The fame of the incident has endured in American pop culture and criminology. Although Lizzie Borden was acquitted, no one else was ever arrested or tried, and she has remained a notorious figure in American folklore. Dispute over the identity of the killer or killers continues to this day. Source


ETA: Really quite annoyed at myself for having missed the Old Shakespeare link before. Had tried it but ruled it out as being, at best, a partial key as couldn't find anything with the phrase it unlocked. Apparently I just needed to take a deeper look. Apologies for that folks.

ETA: Has anyone got the key that decrypts the 4th line? The key would be related to the Taylor case. Putting together an email to Wallace and want to make sure we have it all worked out.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:44 am
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reesylou
Decorated

Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 260

 		Good work on the previous key... I couldn't find anything on that one.

Quote:
ETA: Has anyone got the key that decrypts the 4th line? The key would be related to the Taylor case. Putting together an email to Wallace and want to make sure we have it all worked out.


However, I have got this one:


Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Bill Cunningham Deane-Tanner is the key - was William Desmond Taylor's original name


So, I think that is all of them now.

Sent an email to Wallace to let him know:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Hi Wallace,

I wasn't around to help during the events of February, but have found out about that and the current case from some friends who did assist you back then. I am fairly sure that Louise passed on the information that one of my friends sent to her earlier (as it was for you, but was before you had put your own email on the blog).

We have been working on the links between the codes from the FPSun... and on finding the keys. I think we have most of it now (have recapped the info and added the other pieces we have since discovered):


February 1891 in the title relates to Jack The Ripper. Below are the decoded lines (at least as far as we have gotten with the connecting case information beside it).

Last Possible Victim - this is a reference to Carrie Brown, a woman in America that may possibly have been a later JTR victim. Her nickname - old shakespeare - is the key for the next line.

41 Gerty Lamson: Was this a test? - Gertrude Lamson (formerly Nance O'Neil) was a friend of Lizzie Borden. Lizzie Andrew Borden was a New England spinster who was the central figure in the hatchet murders of her father and stepmother on August 4, 1892, in Fall River, Massachusetts, in the United States. The key for the next line is Lizzie Andrew Borden.

BillDesTaylor delusional: Was he? - relates to the murder of Willam Desmond Taylor who was originally named Bill Cunningham Deane-Tanner - and this name is the next key.

31stofmarch 1922 secret: Another test? (6 murdered at Hinterkaifeck) Hinterkaifeck is the next key

Tamanshud: First Ones (Taman Shud Case, Australia, 1948).

So, what links them all? They are unsolved murders. The Carrie Brown case makes reference to a man described very similarly to the men with the fridge.

I do not know how this links with the current case, but hope it helps in some way.

Regards
Reesylou

PS In case no one else has told you, FPSun - Frank Percival Sun, is now gone, presumed dead.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:38 am
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ReygaPrax
Boot

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 46
Location: West Yorkshire, England
reesylou wrote:


However, I have got this one:


Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Bill Cunningham Deane-Tanner is the key - was William Desmond Taylor's original name


Great work! I'd tried the full name but hadn't thought to shorten it Smile

Looking forward to hearing what Mr Wallace has to say.

If I'm not mistaken that just leaves the code from Wallace's old site to be decrypted. Quoted again here for convenience's sake:

Unknown on Wallace's site wrote:

History rewrites itself inline with common misconceptions of the whole.

pi pe sw pl az km p d mo fr iw pb ku ha ue


ETA: Oh, and we need to figure out the significance of that morse code.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
729 AND 333 ARE IN STONE


PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:28 am
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Zobot257
Entrenched

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 805
Location: Wandering...

 		Text dump of any e-mails I've gotten from people that contain new information:

First there's this e-mail from Ms. Underhill, which you already know about:

Quote:
Currently no body has been found but there is enough evidence showing
how he passed on.

We do not suspect the 'numbered' to be involved, especially since
reading his last email to you. It would appear that Fred decided to
forestall the 'numbered' attempt to access his work. Whilst C.O.P.S.
have a far amount of data collected so far, Fred's work was paramount.
It would appear he has spread it to the four winds.

I've only recently become involved in the Group all be it indirectly in
connection with Fred. My position is very precarious indeed and I can't
risk my employers discovering my involvement in this affair. Fred
however did give me some encrypted data to pass on should the need arise
although he was very exacting in his instructions with regard to the data.

The lost of Fred can not be expressed in words, the world has lost a
fighter against the darkness.

A recent email asked the following:

" there is still time to clarify who the numbered are who you
said: "history is being rewritten by the numbered" and that "They exisT"."

"They" obviously are the numbered. They are called that because C.O.P.S
have counted them I should of thought that was obvious.

Roxie Underhill (92)

xrmmheomgvf

PS. If you wished to be removed from this email list please reply with
the subject line of "remove me"


I include it here because while it's been seen before, it's a pretense to the response I gave. Also, has anyone been able to decode the xrmmheomgvf cypher thingy yet? My response e-mail was:

Quote:
Who are the numbered? Why are they rewriting history or hiding it?


And Ms. Underhill responded with:

Quote:
Who are the numbered? - There are many, they exist in cells, they do not necessarily know that each other exists, that is their strength and also their weakness.

Why are they rewriting history or hiding it? - It is their way to control the unnumbered.

Roxie Underhill.


And then I asked:

Quote:
Thank you. Is there any way I can help continue what Sun started? We want to help.


Her response was pretty sparse:

Quote:
Fred was very exact in my instructions with regard to his data, it will be pass on at the correct time. If anything arises before that I will contact you again.

Roxie Underhill. (80)


I've also e-mailed Bill, asking:

Quote:
Well thank you for your response! I heard you were working on a book with the esteemed Dr. Abdul Jibril. Would you be willing to indulge my curiousity and tell me something about what it's about, please?

I also heard there is some trouble over there. Is Dr. Jibril alright?


His response was:

Quote:
Well thank you for interest, although it is somewhat premature at the moment to speak about the subject matter suffice to say Abdul and I are looking forward to the world's response to our recent discoveries which are not yet for public consumption. We definitely don't want to be pitted to the post by some one else if you see what I mean.

Abdul is safe for the moment, he lives in one of the less affected areas of the conflict.

Bill.


I am getting the feeling that Bill's book might be a bit significant later on, so I'm going to e-mail him further later.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:44 am
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ReygaPrax
Boot

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 46
Location: West Yorkshire, England

 		Thanks for uploading those, they were really helpful as wouldn't have spotted this otherwise:

Roxie's number has changed from 92 to 80.

Not sure what that means at the moment but have already emailed her to ask if 729 or 333 mean anything to her so will wait and see if she has another number when she replies.

ETA: Roxie has replied.

Roxie in an email wrote:
Yes they do and they should mean something to you as well.

They are the core of the numbered, almost holy to them. They are the beginning and the end.

Ask the P.I.

Roxie Underhill

(07 92 80 49)

On 12/03/2011 16:36, Nick Quayle wrote:
> Hi Roxie,
>
> Apologies for troubling you again but I wondered whether I might ask you another question, it would greatly help us to continue Mr Sun's work.
>
> You have spoken of the numbered before and I note from your first email that you yourself have a number. I wonder, do the numbers 729 or 333 mean anything to you?
>
> Many thanks for your help,
>
> Nick



I'm away this evening but will take a closer look later and see if I can figure out what is going on :]

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:52 am
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