Return to Unfiction unforum
 a.r.g.b.b 
FAQ FAQ   Search Search 
 
Welcome!
New users, PLEASE read these forum guidelines. New posters, SEARCH before posting and read these rules before posting your killer new campaign. New players may also wish to peruse the ARG Player Tutorial.

All users must abide by the Terms of Service.
Website Restoration Project
This archiving project is a collaboration between Unfiction and Sean Stacey (SpaceBass), Brian Enigma (BrianEnigma), and Laura E. Hall (lehall) with
the Center for Immersive Arts.
Announcements
This is a static snapshot of the
Unfiction forums, as of
July 23, 2017.
This site is intended as an archive to chronicle the history of Alternate Reality Games.
  

The time now is Thu Nov 21, 2024 6:53 pm
All times are UTC - 4 (DST in action)		 View posts in this forum since last visit
View unanswered posts in this forum
Calendar
 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
[Spec] Jan = Kamal's Sister?
View previous topicView next topic
Page 2 of 3 [31 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3 Next
Author Message
daboking
Unfettered


Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 486
Location: 2nd star to the right

 		i still cannot buy the j2 being Jan's real father yet. For 1, the failed blip is a tough obstacle to overcome. Jan is too cool and collected to let nerves affect her PQI. The "dream child" does not prove this too me, either. He says he should have requested a "dream child" but got Jan. With all the cover up behind j2, he is definitely up to something, whether involved with spartan iii or not I have no idea, but how many parents request a "dream child" even though he says he got Jan instead, the option of the request suggests to me that she is not exactly his daughter, though he may be raising her as his daughter to see if if these "miracles" can be implemented into everyday society so that we do not run into similar scenarios to the spartan I's difficult reajustment to society. I am wondering if we are not seeing genetic experimentation to create a superhuman race that still is in touch with normalcy rather than flying over the to the funny farm.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 4:42 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
J214
Boot

Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 21
Location: Kirkland, WA

 		eh...
It is possible that the Spike on the baseline in Jan's PQI is caused by the thought of the repercussions that may be brought on by her transgression.

By the way Stong Bad rocks!

PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 5:49 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Karmic
Veteran

Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 115
Location: Cincinnati, OH

 		Re: eh...
J214 wrote:
It is possible that the Spike on the baseline in Jan's PQI is caused by the thought of the repercussions that may be brought on by her transgression.
While it's obvious that the PQI is a future lie detector, what's not obvious is HOW is detects lies. My personal opinion is that it works pretty much the way a lie detector works today (only better). That would mean that any 'spike' from the baseline is really just an elevated physical response. The spike that occurs when Jan sees her dad is caused by her reaction to getting caught and her dad making her nervous. It's one thing to put up a front for the cops, staying cool when your Spartan trained dad comes to pick you up from the police station might be a bit more worrisome.

J214 wrote:
By the way Stong Bad rocks!
Yes. Yes, he does.
_________________
reveal:
!label Karmic

PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 5:55 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Avery1415
Boot

Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 51
Location: St. Louis
LorD BaZTArD wrote:
No... Avery1415, just no. This is my main problem with some of the spec thrown in here and irc, look I understand not all of you are, or want to be halo players and are just in it for the ARG. But please...could you use the existing fiction to create beleivable spec??


Actually I do play Halo, I just haven't read the books. (Speaking of which, has anybody ever theorized that the flea is the annoying little Halo caretaker construct? We know he survives the destruction of Halo. And, well, he's bloody annoying, much like the Flea. Take away the smug humming; add lots of faux machine code.....)

Anyhow, a little back-story explaining why I'm not going to assume an absolute parallel with the existing fiction (or anyone's idea of the existing fiction): Once upon a time I used to do freelance work for Game Designers Workshop. My dream assignment was to write a supplement for a game that, like Halo, had collected a lot of back-story. My name on the cover. Everything! Now, the be careful what you wish for part: a different person authored every previous supplement and each was pulling the game in a slightly different direction. Then there were the three novels that were set in a similar, but slightly different universe as the game. There was a definite balancing act - maintaining consistency, playabilility, and, at the same time, creating something new and interesting. Sometimes consistency was sacrificed.

Meanwhile, back at the WAV's:
I'm betting that after you make an AI you block out the memories and impulses you don't want it to have access to and then pump it full of information. What Durga said implies some of this. Divide a 6 year old's knowledge by all the data there is and you are going to get a number close to zero. But it'll be very close to zero for everybody else too.

I have to believe that Ronnie would be a good AI because she's inquisitive, intuitive and persistant; not her knowledge of desktop fabricator hacks, Kentucky graveyards or cow stature. Assuming these assumptions are correct, a six year old would be just as useful as an AI as anyone else.

We do know that Durga finds Kamal very interesting, we don't know why and neither does she. The only other thing she doesn't seem to know about is whose brain she was before she was what she is now. The WAVes are very well crafted. Her interest in Kamal might just be a throw away plot device but I'm willing to bet you a beer that it's not.

Mazian points out that there is no reason to believe that Earth forces nab people of the street to make AI's, but also points out that once things got ugly enough, their moral objections to the Spartan program dried up and blew away. Also, by every account Ackerson is a right bastard. If he's calling the shots (and he might very well be) what is he capable of? How many six year olds would he be willing to sacrifice?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:03 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
J214
Boot

Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 21
Location: Kirkland, WA

 		Karmic
Thanks Karmic, I am at work and didn't have time to finish my thought. you did a superb (even durga-like) job of finishing my thought. and for that I thank you again.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:26 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 26 Sep 2002
Posts: 3651
Location: Is not Chicago
Avery1415 wrote:

Actually I do play Halo, I just haven't read the books. (Speaking of which, has anybody ever theorized that the flea is the annoying little Halo caretaker construct? *snip*....)


Oh boy, have they!

Twisted Evil

PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:16 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website
 Back to top 
Moe The Sleaze
Boot

Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 32
Location: Los Angeles

 		I like the spec that the artifact was in fact Guilty Spark.

G-d, I hope that little bastard is back in Halo 2 and that I can finally hit him with a shot gun blast.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:29 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address
 Back to top 
malspa
Greenhorn

Joined: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 3
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

 		Kamal's Sister = Jan?
Your observations are right on, however here is a little twist. What if Jan's "parents" were put on Earth as a last resort? Only to go into battle if the Covenant were to reach Earth. This would explain the conversation between her "parents" about it being time to go. Now, if this were true, then what purpose does Jan play? If you remember, the only reason that Durga started spying on Jan is because of Jersey's little infatuation. If Durga knew that Jan and her family were SPARTANS, then there would have been other people to go to than Jersey.

We do know that Jan has been enhanced much like the SPARTAN trainees, however, I have yet to see reference to a SPARTAN trainee either not knowing that they are in training, or that the trainee is made to forget any of the training. This leads me to believe that Jan was for some reason, dropped out of the program at a very young age. From the looks of things, this might have been due to her lack of respect for rules, and authority.

In my opinion, Kamal's Sister died (maybe from a medical problem or maybe it was homicide) and her brain was used to form an AI program. This has been hinted at quite a few times, and there are an extreme amount of posts about it on this site alone.

What do you think?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:45 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
LorD BaZTArD
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 125
Quote:
It could reveal that you didn't quote your sources real well.
The book says "S-3" it doesn't say SPARTAN. It also never uses "S2" to describe SPARTAN-IIs. The whole bit about SPARTAN-IIIs is pure SPEC. The basis for that spec is an ambiguous statement about who CPO Mendez trains after he trains the SPARTAN-IIs and another ambigious few characters "S-III" or "S-3", I forget which.

To which people have ascribed all sorts of things... "Section-3" seems more likely than SPARTAN-III considering that the SPARTAN-IIs were trained in the SECTION-3 compound in Reach

I am fully aware that they never called the Spartan 2 program S2 in the books....I was holding the books in my hand as I wrote my post!!! I just called them s2's because I got to lazy to retype spartan all the time.

Ok, so it never says Spartan 3, it says SIII. Yeah that could mean alot of things, but here is why I think it's spartan 3, it's in Ackersons personal folder. Not marked for submission to a higher branch. Ackerson and Halsey are part of ONI Section 3 NavSpecWeap, where Halsey is a civilian consultant and Ackerson is military. They have a long standing rivalry because her project took precedence over his and I suspect one of the main reasons this annoys ackerson is because she is a civilian. Ackerson gets a chance to start a new project because Halsey was demoted and shoved deep into reach because some of the less than pleasant information about the Spartan project got to the higher ups. Ackerson is given free reign to start a new project and does as much research as possible into Halsey's work because he realises that he can use this information to his advantage for whatever project he has, and if Halsey died on reach it makes it harder to prove Ackerson stole her work. (Pure Spec, yes, but given the described rivalry between the two characters. It's not too hard to imagine it happen, especially given ONI's love of clandestine schemes)

Now, put in this way, we are told that Mendez is training new spartans, his name shows up in a folder named SIII. Not normally much evidence, until you think about it...spartan 1.0 and II were completely different projects, yet they share the same codename. Is it really that far out to assume that the project is still called Spartan? It may be a different program again, but the end result is the same: Nearly unstoppable multi purpose super soldiers.

Quote:
Extrasonic: Actually, not that it matters

Did you deliberatly ignore the fact I stated that I was diving into speculation about kamals age? You are right though, that it doesn't matter how old Kamal is because the spec still stands alone. Jasmine got abducted at age 6, a similar age to last time...hell we may even be looking to far into it...perhaps Jasmine DID die and they never kidnapped her and she was used to give us info about kamal. This works...but we don't know what kamal is useful for yet, so it's easier to spec the fate of Jasmine, which matches the practices for the Spartan 2 project...maybe that was coincidence. We don't know.

Avery1415. You raise a good point, I should clarify that my statement about non-halo players wasn't aimed at you. It was a general statement, you just happened to be the post that made me write my lengthy response. I'm actually the polar opposite of you, I don't play halo. I played it when it came out for PC once and was done, but I like halo because of the fiction, the game to me doesn't tell me anything...it just sets me on halo to kill stuff. To clarify, I haven't read the second book because it was written by someone else and tried to turn gameplay into a compelling book and by most accounts didn't work. I like the two other books because they expand the basics outside of what happened on Halo. Extensions to the universe so to speak. Fall of Reach and First Strike were also written by the same guy, and are consistent with each other. The Canon halo story to me is Fall of Reach -Halo Game - First Strike. Maybe I should read the second book to see what I missed, but I'm not going to.

I can understand your point about people writing books for game universes though, more often than not they get the opportunity and take it in a direction they want to see, and more often than not they don't have to link to the previous books.

My main beef with Jasmine as durga is she may be a genius and super strong, but at age 6 she hasn't had enough time to really understand her situation. She's too young. All she knows is she likes learning and her brother is her best friend willing to do all these things for her. She may be a prime candidate for an AI, but I still hold by the status that AI's are best suited from people with more real world experience...like Ronnie. I'm not gonna let spec change my mind, until the PM's themselves prove me wrong or right.

Finally Malspa... if Jan was a spartan 2...she would be the same age as her dad. the timeline of the wavs has been proven recently to be 2552.
Jan is the children of two spartan 1's. Obviously when she was born they detected she had some of the same strengths as her parents and given his possibly high ranking was asked if he wanted his daughter to undergo some of the same upgrades he did, the answer sounds like yes.
_________________
"He went that away......wait...which way did he tell me to point the strangers in? Oh follow his footprints" "Thanks"

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:44 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
TheHulk
Boot

Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 45
LorD BaZTArD wrote:


My main beef with Jasmine as durga is she may be a genius and super strong, but at age 6 she hasn't had enough time to really understand her situation. She's too young. All she knows is she likes learning


As does Durga. She likes to "find things out" and every action I've seen Durga take requires NO common sense. It is all based on her reading or finding information from somewhere else. Also, what experiences would a 6 year old have that would constitute as being painful? A bee sting. This is why I think she always refers to "stinging" people to harm them.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 1:35 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
KwayZeeyT
Boot


Joined: 07 Oct 2004
Posts: 53
Location: Maytown, Pennsylvania
daboking wrote:
i still cannot buy the j2 being Jan's real father yet. For 1, the failed blip is a tough obstacle to overcome. Jan is too cool and collected to let nerves affect her PQI. The "dream child" does not prove this too me, either. He says he should have requested a "dream child" but got Jan. With all the cover up behind j2, he is definitely up to something, whether involved with spartan iii or not I have no idea, but how many parents request a "dream child" even though he says he got Jan instead, the option of the request suggests to me that she is not exactly his daughter, though he may be raising her as his daughter to see if if these "miracles" can be implemented into everyday society so that we do not run into similar scenarios to the spartan I's difficult reajustment to society. I am wondering if we are not seeing genetic experimentation to create a superhuman race that still is in touch with normalcy rather than flying over the to the funny farm.


Post # 1 Mr. Green

I agree that J2 is not her real father. In week six, he talks about how he doesn't really like the Spartin II's; they are different, and aren't human. Not like 1.0's, they worked hard and trained hard. If he was on his way out, maybe he took pity on her. My thought is that J2 (and maybe other 1.0) "rescued" Jan (or maybe Jasmine) from the Spartin II program. That would explain:

1) Why Jan's test results had to be destroyed with the police station fire.
2) Why J2 tells Jan that if "things" were found out it would hurt people she didn't even know.
3) Why they had to move every time Jan showed one of her special abilities. (Rescueing the cat, hopscotch on her hands, ect.)
4) Why Jan's "mother" asked if "This is the girl?" when they went to visit.

Basically J2 had to keep her a secret. If anyone found out who she really was, him and a lot of other people would get hurt.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:13 am
 View user's profile Visit poster's website
 Back to top 
johnny5
Entrenched

Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 995
Location: Elysian Fields
KwayZeeyT wrote:
daboking wrote:
i still cannot buy the j2 being Jan's real father yet. For 1, the failed blip is a tough obstacle to overcome. Jan is too cool and collected to let nerves affect her PQI. The "dream child" does not prove this too me, either. He says he should have requested a "dream child" but got Jan. With all the cover up behind j2, he is definitely up to something, whether involved with spartan iii or not I have no idea, but how many parents request a "dream child" even though he says he got Jan instead, the option of the request suggests to me that she is not exactly his daughter, though he may be raising her as his daughter to see if if these "miracles" can be implemented into everyday society so that we do not run into similar scenarios to the spartan I's difficult reajustment to society. I am wondering if we are not seeing genetic experimentation to create a superhuman race that still is in touch with normalcy rather than flying over the to the funny farm.


Post # 1 Mr. Green

I agree that J2 is not her real father. In week six, he talks about how he doesn't really like the Spartin II's; they are different, and aren't human. Not like 1.0's, they worked hard and trained hard. If he was on his way out, maybe he took pity on her. My thought is that J2 (and maybe other 1.0) "rescued" Jan (or maybe Jasmine) from the Spartin II program. That would explain:

1) Why Jan's test results had to be destroyed with the police station fire.
2) Why J2 tells Jan that if "things" were found out it would hurt people she didn't even know.
3) Why they had to move every time Jan showed one of her special abilities. (Rescueing the cat, hopscotch on her hands, ect.)
4) Why Jan's "mother" asked if "This is the girl?" when they went to visit.

Basically J2 had to keep her a secret. If anyone found out who she really was, him and a lot of other people would get hurt.


Well, no. He didn't say "dream child" he said " cut the fancy stuff and order a nice kid" He had her beefed up, but that doesn't mean she wasn't his.

1) JJ admitted that she was tweaked. He had a biological daughter and used his connections to beef her up.
2) They are on the lam because Jan was identified early on as a SII candidate, and JJ killed a guy coming for her.
3) see 2
4) Gilly (Gillie) is mentally unstable, and unable to function normally during peacetie. She may have been in the hospital for a while (out to pasture). JJ took Jan away from her because of it.
_________________
Search is your friend.
As with any friend, use it to your advantage.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:34 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Lurking_Kouzou
Veteran


Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 124
Location: Earth

 		Of course, this is still all [SPEC] but I've been looking at things in a different light.

J^2 and Gilly, they're spartans together, they train together, etc. It's not so hard to see them participating in certain activities, the result being a child. (Yay for Jan) That is the cold version, of course. It could be more along the lines of the "fell in love, then had to go into hiding, separating Jan and James from Gilly" sort of story, either way, the result is the same. Jan and James are on the road, and Gilly hasn't seen her daughter in ages.

At somepoint maybe with, maybe without, Jan's concent, James and/or Gilly get some doctors/medics to give Jan the same tweaking that they recieved. Illeagally, I would suspect, or why keep it under wraps. That would explain why James had to burn down the police station to keep her tweaking hushed up, and why "people you don't even know" (the medics) would be hurt if the information got out.

Now, as Durga proclaims it, "James James is a grey hole". This seems to indicate that his original identity, for whatever reason, has been concealed. One with a concealed identity would probably want to keep a low profile, lest their deeds draw too much attention, possibly of the wrong sort. So Jan appearing in the news, or playing hopscotch on her hands, would probably draw unwanted attention (can you see the headlines? SUPER GIRL SAVES CAT, VANISHES). Hence all the moves they were forced to make.

Now, as Jan clearly knows about her tweaking - at least following the conversation she had with her father post-pqi - so his comments about "I should have asked the medics for a dream child" are probably nothing more than some innocent fatherly teasing. Just listening to the wavs makes it sound like the smooth teasing sort of things that Dads and Daughters who are close will do.

Then, as for Gilly's comments about "This is the girl". She is pretty out of her head at the time. So that would take some of the coldness out of that statement. If she was her mother, and hadn't seen her for a long time, Gilly would know nothing about what Jan looked like - especially if they'd been separated for many many years. Kids change a lot when they grow up, so it's not unbelievable that Gilly wouldn't recognise Jan. It also explains the statments about James giving Gilly pictures. He's been sending her photos of Jan as she was growing up. (As any guy would do if a girl and her mother were forced to be separated)

Okay, that is just my $0.02, but it seems a bit simpler than other explanations. Occam's razor and all that.

~K
EDIT: Doh, my long-winded-ness seems to have proven to be my downfall

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:53 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Arana
Unfettered


Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 353
Location: shallow grave

 		Re: [Spec] Jan = Kamal's Sister?
Vegechan wrote:
I think Jan is kamal's sister. Here's why:


ARG! (Pun intended!) I thought this spec was deservedly dead long ago. Jan cannot be Yasmine! Yasmine was abducted when she was 6 yrs old on Coral. See something_I_carry:

Quote:
Kamal: She was six, I was ten.


That means she went to pre-school on Coral!!!

Well, Jan remembers places on Earth from when she was in preschool. See good_grief:

Quote:
Jan: I remember all this stuff. We used to live here.
JJ: You remember that?
Jan: Yeah, yeah, last year of preschool. I remember...Oh, Dad, put the gun down. Good grief.


Put them together - Yasmine preschool on Coral, Jan preschool on Earth

Conclusion - Jan and Yasmine cannot be the same person.

The stories are all we have, I think we should take them at face value!

This is mega trout, but I must repeat here: The evidence that SP is the persona of Yasmine is VERY strong, with the story of Perdita being the story of her abduction and conversion to a machine. It possibly sounds more like conversion to a Spartan II with the slow replacement of parts with mechanicals. However J^2 says that most S2 recruits don't make it. If Yasmine didn't make it she could then have been used as the basis of an AI. Alternatively, the brain ninja's Durga said take kids to make them into AIs may have gotten her directly.
_________________
If it's *spec* you never have to say that you're sorry.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:54 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website
 Back to top 
daboking
Unfettered


Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 486
Location: 2nd star to the right

 		it may be mega trout, arana, but somehow the logic has escaped some folks, so revisiting never hurt anyone too badly. Very Happy
_________________
meedley meedley meedley meedley meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:03 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 2 of 3 [31 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3 Next
View previous topicView next topic
 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
You cannot post calendar events in this forum



Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group