unforum

[BrochachoNacho]

Dear Timelord. ಠ_ಠ

[chasechan2050]

Phenom..... bro.... I really think that you've missed the point. As a fan, I understand that you're excited about OOG news that pertains to the series/es you like. But as a creator, I'd think that other creators would like to be asked before you go ahead and post things.

I'm not attacking you at all, so don't take it that way. I am far from a conformational person unless provoked, and this isn't that kind of situation.

And I understand that you're friends with Jeff and Tati on FB, as am I. Most of the creators are friends with each other. But that really doesn't mean a whole lot (no offense) as far as you being aloud to repost/link things without permission.

[Cire]

I've kind of stayed out of this whole mess (and I'd feel more comfortable if I have been a guest saying it), but isn't this all a little silly?

Unforum, at least how I interpret it, is a place where people get together to discuss/solve the stories/ARGs as a whole. OOG news related to the story only contributes to the discussion. If such news would be detrimental to the story itself or the effect, then why would the author post it at all? Also, isn't the OOG news that authors' post for the fans of their story? If a fan doesn't want to ruin the "immersion", then why can't they just steer clear of such info when it pops up instead of regulating what can be reposted and what can't? Instead, why not just spoiler the OOG info in discussion threads of just post it in the OOG thread that Phenom made?

I like the OOG discussion. It was there that I found out about Deja Vu Dreamer. Other people who browse the forum probably like it too. Not all, of course, but still enough to talk about it.

Can we please get beyond this?

[RatheadSyndicate]

CAN IT BE? HAVE THE STARS THUSLY ALIGNED? ARE WE HAVING A RATIONAL DISCUSSION ON UNFORUM ABOUT OUR DISAGREEMENTS??? HAROLD CAMPING IS RIGHT! THE END TIMES ARE UPON US! DO NOT BOTHER RUNNING, HUMANS, YOUR WORLD IS DOOMED!!!

*cough*

Serious post on a serious earth: I am thrilled to see cool heads prevailing here. First of all, in regards to the absence of enthusiasm for text-only stories, I generally agree. Certainly, there's nothing about blogs that makes them inherently less awesome than video series, and I suspect that there are a number of fans who are simply missing out on some great stuff because of their reluctance to commit to blog-reading.

In regards to the posting of OOG content, I may sound a bit like a broken record here, but sue me... I'm stubborn and pedantic... There is a dynamic at play here that we would all do well to keep in mind. First, a public blog is... ya know... public, and it's no more discourteous to link to it than it would be to lend someone a novel without the author's permission. As Mr. Koval said on his own blog, hyperbolically extrapolating the teensiest bit of OOG information into giant epileptic forests has not yet spoiled a damned thing for anyone, and those who do it look silly, so what's the harm? Second, art, once released to the public, ceases to be the sole interpretive property of the artist. The creator can not direct the consumer, can not control the means by which that consumer interacts with their product. Which means that if a creator keeps a public OOG blog, he or she has no control over whether or not said blog is used by the consumer as part and parcel of their experience of the series. This is not a bad thing. It means that there are as many ways to experience art as there are people who wish to experience it. I, for one, enjoy seeing what goes on behind the scenes, for the same reason that I read autobiographies of artists I admire and watch movies with the commentary on. Others don't enjoy doing that, and they don't have to do it.

My point, incidentally (since I seem to have meandered away from it), is that the creator does not control how we interact with the creation. This is not an issue of courtesy (although we could all stand to be more courteous). This is simply the dynamic with which art functions.

If this makes zero sense, my apologies. I just got back from the beach, and I'm completely beat.

[SolDL]

[Cougar Draven]

To again throw my two pennies in, I approve wholeheartedly of planting those seizure-prone forests. And, for the most part, I think that if Jeff or Troy posts something on their blog, or says something OOG in Angora, then for the most part it's fair game.

However (and this is a /big/ sticking point with me) if they outright say that they don't want something on UF (which I recall Jeff did after the first big OOG fiasco) then it shouldn't be. In other, shorter words: if someone /asks/ for something to not be posted here, don't do it out of respect. If you do? I may not be able to do anything about that (still interpreting what Bass said), but you'll have lost my respect. And I'm much less lenient with people who have gone out of their way to lose my respect.

[DaLadybugMan]

Popping in quickly to offer my two cents:

The issue here isn't a lack of privacy. Obviously, creators know that they can't avoid keeping a public blog private. The issue is more a lack of respect to said creators. Permission should be asked before something is posted in most cases. A big announcement regarding an exciting upcoming event (e.g., if Adam announced that he was going to be releasing a Tribe Twelve DVD (he hasn't said anything about this, at least not to my knowledge)) is usually worth posting around, as the creator probably wants people to know and word to get around. But a lot of OOG news being posted is minor stuff that, frankly, the creators probably don't want spread around everywhere without being asked first.

To give you an example, it's like if I was talking with some friends, and I mentioned that I prefer Barq's Root Beer to A+W Root Beer. Then, one of said friends decided to tell everyone at school about how I prefer one brand of root beer to another. Now, naturally, this shouldn't offend me. Having an opinion on a brand of soda isn't anything that would affect my social status or anyone's opinions about me. It'd be nothing I'd need to keep secret. I'd doubt that any A+W fan would get offended. But I'd still feel a bit upset, because I wouldn't think that it's something that needs to be spread around. Why does everyone need to know my preferences in root beer? It's unnecessary. It's nothing that would affect me, but I'd still be a bit offended, just because it's not a fact about myself that needs to be spread around. If the subject came up, I'd be fine with my friends telling someone that I prefer Barq's, but I don't want them proclaiming everything I say to the world.

It's a similar case here. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I feel that if someone were posting everything I wrote about on a personal or OOG blog without asking, I'd feel a bit violated. It's not that I care whether or not people know. It's just that I don't think they need to. That's my main beef with Phenom: it seems like he's constantly posting anything that Jeff puts up on Tumblr, no matter how relevant or irrelevant it is, and it feels like he's fanboying. Jeff doesn't strike me as a guy who has an ego that needs constant feeding, so I think he probably feels a little uncomfortable that someone is obsessing like this.

It's not a matter of privacy. It's a matter of constantly spreading things that just don't need to be spread. Not an invasion of privacy, but a breach of decency and politeness.

Basically, know what's important and what isn't. An announcement about Can You See The Words possibly having problems and the wiki needing to change was important. A contest announcement is important. Things like this are probably things the creator wants to have publicity. Someone's opinions on any given series isn't. If in doubt, ask. The creator will probably allow you permission to post it, but if he or she says something along the lines of "um, okay, but why?" then it might be a good idea to reconsider.

And in regards to the Deja vu Dreamer link earlier in the thread: 1. it was originally considered to be actual OOG news and not a trailhead (the creator actually lied to everyone he told about the book deal until the story kicked off), and 2. it was posted with the permission of the author. Probably because he wanted publicity/advertisement/a trailhead, the sneaky bastard .

[SolDL]

Well, let's think about this in terms of other ARGs. I'm fairly sure if JJ Abrams said something in his personal, theoretical blog which may or may not exist (As you can see I do not follow Super 8 as close as I want to), I don't think anyone would be asking him for his permission before making a forum topic about it. The issue here isn't really respect, it's the lack of distance between creator and fan: primarily because this Slender Man stuff is basically chaotic fiction for dummies. Anyone can jump in whenever they want, and many people do. Which is excellent for variety, but I think it does need to be realized that it changes the dynamic of this place from a distanced middle ground, to a fairly intimate game of wits and detection from both the readers, and the writers. It's a metafictional theorist's wet dream, really.

There is a perception from the authors that they are still attached to this forum in some way, shape or form, but that goes out the window when you put on the creator's cap. It very much HAS to. While the circumstances of these writers emerging is a little different to your traditional novelist, actor and playwright, the ways in which interaction between the writer and responder occurs must be considered in the same light as them. A novelist may care that someone is posting stuff (s)he wrote on an internet forum, but it's not an indication of a lack of respect and I don't believe any of you would consider it so.

Also, on a sidenote, more as evidence to back up my point: The rules of this board dictating that a puppetmaster cannot post in their own topic. Whilst not directly relevant to this situation, I feel it shows an intellectual grasp of the relationship between responder and creator which should be followed in the spirit of its intentions: to preserve that sense of distance which makes these stories successful. I'd say the only Slenderstory which has had the balls to completely shatter that sense of distance is Angel's Game, with their use of social media and the like, so I can kind of appreciate that.

TL;DR: Calm your tits, folks. If Jeff Bridges doesn't worry about people quoting him on the internet, neither should you.

Also, I don't exactly get why this is a pinned topic. It's a fun little debate and I do think people should get in on it, but I wouldn't say there's been a consensus that has been reached in the slightest yet. It's making the part of the board for the rules and, ah, helpful suggestions, more of a part of the board for academic debates. Which I'd /love/ a section for, but somehow I don't think that's in the spirit of the forum.

[Cougar Draven]

[Uniquename]

I feel as though Cougar stickying this thread is just a sad, blatently obvious attempt at impressing Ms. Chan in a valiant effort to get laid. I calls it as I sees it.

[Cougar Draven]

[Uniquename]

Yeah, I'd be laughing too but my wife's asleep and I have to wake up early tomorrow morning to go on a golf outing with the CEO of Google. We're brokering a merger between Google, Microsoft and Krispy Kreme. We're calling it "Microsoft Donut Maps" I dunno, I didn't care for the name but Mr. Nakamura from Marketing said it would catch on. ^_^

[Cougar Draven]

Hm. And here I thought that was Bing's official subtitle.

[The Kempest]

Wouldn't be surprised. The only person I know who even uses Bing is my brother, and he's a Microsoft fanboy so his opinion sucks.