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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): Puzzles
[SOLVESOLVESOLVE]Oct 8th PREPOSITION PUZZLE:usernameguy
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Nova
Unfettered


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 529
Location: Frog blasting the vent core

usernameguy wrote:
I wrote a quickie Perl script. I tried all 3362 combinations of "word_word" and "word_and_word". No joy.


Wait, how did you arrive at 3362?

Code:

nPr = n! / (n - r)!
    = 41! / (41 - 2)!
    = 1640 permutations

nCr = n! / ((n - r)! r!)
    = 41! / ((41 - 2)! 2)
    = 820 combinations


Even if you multiply those numbers by 2 to count the versions with 'and' and without, it's still not 3362. Or are my math skills more than a little rusty? Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:15 am
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marq
Boot


Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 47
Location: Charlotte, NC

ASL and preposition puzzle

johnny_Nitro wrote:
Can anyone relate these to ASL?
We've had braille, why not sign language? Sounds like silence.
Eh, I don't know.


I'm learning ASL while teaching it to my son. I found this site that has an index and visual reference for the different signs.

http://www.lifeprint.com/asl101/pages-layout/signs.htm

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:17 am
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usernameguy
Boot

Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 68

I tried the dupes as well. (*shrug* what's an extra 82 checks?) I tried every word against every other word, so that's 41*41=1681. "word_word" is 1681 and "word_and_word" is another 1681 = 3362.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:17 am
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cortezdp
Kilroy

Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 1

Sounds like Propositions

Prepositions sounds similar to proposition, but I can't think of a word to pair it with. I tried proposition/propositions/41_propositions/forty_one_propositions to no avail though.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:42 am
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HitsHerMark
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Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1521
Location: Austin, TX

proposition_fourty_one

doesn't work either...

At least she's not trying to tell us how to vote. Cool
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 3:01 am
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peeveen1
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Joined: 28 Jul 2004
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Don't know if this has already been done, but I just got RhymeZone to give me all the rhymes for "pre" and all the rhymes for "positions", and I wrote a program to test every combination ... for example, free_positions, three_suspicions, plea_ambitions, we_physicians, wee_musicians, etc.

3968 filenames later, no match.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:07 am
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jellyfish_green
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Joined: 30 Jul 2004
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Location: Inner Colony of Eire

In Charades, the signal for "sounds like" is to cup your ear, or tug your earlobe. "Earlobe" is a nice word. There's no conventional signal for "preposition" category, though.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 7:42 am
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Lurking_Kouzou
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Joined: 30 Sep 2004
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I've thought of another possible solution, but it might take someone with more time, and better coding skill than I to complete it. I thought about making an attempt, but the only language I know well enough to try is Matlab, and I'm not entirely sure that it's the right program for the job.

While the words that are given are all prepositions, we've (mostly) determined that they don't spell anything. Now, what if this is like the Film Noir story that we had last week, where we need to replace each of those words to get the first letters to spell out something (now, 41 letters is a lot of letters for one word, so it will probably be multiple words, like havealaugh was have_a_laugh).

Okay, so here's where the mad coding skills would come in. We could use rhymezone to pull up a list of all the words that rhyme with each entry of the list. The program would take those words and then generate a series of character strings that would look something along the lines of:

"blank space" *the first letter of one word from each list* "blank space" *vertical fence*

so a short example.. if the rhyming words for our prepositions were "top, house, elephant..." the results from the program would be _the..._| (where the _ are really blank spaces, of course). The output of the program could dump to a text file, or something, and repeat letters within the group of rhymes for indiviudal prepositions could be skipped. (i.e. for between you could include bean but skip beane).

Bah, I hope this makes sense, it is much to early for me to be typing in English. (as opposed to Zombie, which is what I normally type in this early in the morning.) It seems like it could be a long shot, but that's about where we are at this point in time...

~K

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:29 am
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Avatrix
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
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Location: Boston, MA

Kouzou, it's a good idea, but I don't think it works here. (I did try checking it out yesterday, without luck). There are far too many vowels, and most of the consonants are B's and T's. It seems unlikely to me that there is enough variety in the first letters to make a coherent phrase.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:02 am
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Clarence_Worley
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Joined: 13 Oct 2004
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peeveen1 wrote:
Don't know if this has already been done, but I just got RhymeZone to give me all the rhymes for "pre" and all the rhymes for "positions", and I wrote a program to test every combination ... for example, free_positions, three_suspicions, plea_ambitions, we_physicians, wee_musicians, etc.

3968 filenames later, no match.


You might re-run with "prep" as the first word as that is closer to the first syllable sound in prepositions.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:04 am
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KwayZeeyT
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Joined: 07 Oct 2004
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I'm starting to wonder if maybe they forgot to upload the file. Confused

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:35 am
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skyhawk0000
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Joined: 27 Sep 2004
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you dare question the all powerful PMs? Wink

this puzzle is just Evil.. I keep thinking that it Has to be simpler then it seems.. but its Still just out of reach
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:39 am
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peeveen1
Boot

Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 51

Quote:
You might re-run with "prep" as the first word as that is closer to the first syllable sound in prepositions.


Okay, I'm running it now, though there aren't all that many sensible words that rhyme with "prep". I'll let you know how it goes shortly.

Since my last post, I've run it again with non-plural words, and a few more rhymes, e.g., free_volition, flea_transmission.

11,000+ combinations tried, no matches found.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:03 am
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CoffeeJedi
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
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have we exhausted the possibilities of "Sounds Like"? the most obvious is finding a rhyme or similiar word, the less obvious is the idea of translating the words into music..... but
is there maybe ANOTHER meaning of "sounds like" that we've overlooked?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:06 am
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introspect
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Joined: 24 Sep 2004
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Location: University of Waterloo

Convert the letters to binary and see if it turns into a wav file?

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:19 am
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