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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
[VIDEO] Entry #45
Moderators: Giskard, JKatkina, Zarggg
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Mr. Fischer
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Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 77
fredsolo wrote:
Mr. Fischer wrote:
Let's simplify the scenario.

Woodsy's job was to lure Alex to the undisclosed location.

Hoody's job was to immobilize Alex.

and

Masky was supposed to finish the job.

This would all make sense if we had concrete proof that Hoody was there.


You have no concrete proof that Woodsy and Hoody are different characters. BECUASE THEY ARE PROBABLY NOT.


Thats like saying the hooded figure in #41 is Masky. Of coarse I have concrete proof, the video clearly shows a different mask.



There's your proof sista!

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:02 am
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Salculd
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Joined: 24 Jul 2011
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 		A couple things I noticed that I didn't see anyone else mention while skimming through this. They're both probably nothing, but still.

At 2:38, with the tearing and ostensible appearance of TO, both of the figures look up at the same point, quickly and in unison. What tipped them off? Did he make a sound? I can't recall if TO has ever actually MADE a sound before, outside of the audio distortions on tape. Was there some sort of visual cue that we couldn't see? He's been perfectly capable of sneaking up on people unnoticed (see: 40), so if there's some kind of observable visual component, it's not always there.

You could easily argue that the video/audio distortions have been covering them up, somehow, but... I don't know. The tearing was a couple seconds prior to their reaction, so I don't think it would've concealed it in the video. To me, it implies that if that was TO, he actually did something to actively call attention to himself, which seems... unusual, and the lack of recorded evidence of that implies telepathy. Not that that's anything new.

Another thing: Compare the video distortion effects at ~2:40 in this entry, ~6:54 in 43, and ~3:25 in 44--I guess you could describe it as a.... burned-in negative effect? I don't know, I'm sure there's a name for it. It strikes me as unusual that the same sort of effect showed up in three consecutive entries under similar circumstances in each. I don't remember seeing this effect used very much previously, but that's just as likely my memory being crappy.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:02 am
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MorbidPuppies
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fredsolo wrote:
Sleight wrote:
fredsolo wrote:
From a story perspective it makes no FUCKING sense to introduce a new hooded character when we were introduced to Hoody just a couple entries ago and we only saw one 5 second shot of him. SO THAT'S CLEARLY SUPPOSED TO BE FUCKING HOODY!
Maybe he was played by a different actor(Troy's blog implies he was played by Tim in Entry 41, which means someone else would have to play him on this one due to Tim obviously playing Masky) but it's still clearly supposed to be the same character. If they wanted a new masked/hooded character they would give him a unique look, THEY ARE NOT IDIOTS.

Also Masky is clearly Tim, I don't even have to write a sentence to prove it I just need to say MASK SIDEBURNS JACKET ROCK LIMP LIMP LIMP LIMP LIMP LIMP FUCKING LIMP!

Again, if they wanted to introduce a new masked character they would give him a unique look, meaning SOMETHING THAT WOULD MAKE IT EASY TO TELL HIM APART FROM THE OTHER MASKED CHARACTERS!



Righttttt, they would make everything clear. Like only showing Seth on camera once. Brian on camera twice. Amy once. Jessica 3-4 times. Think about the first 15 entries! It was hard to be sure there weren't multiple Maskies, for gods sakes. They aren't going to wrap up any time soon, I think they need to introduce the rest of TTA before we can move much further. Obviously showing hooded characters is the way to go. Why would they not make it more obvious? Dunno. All in the same gang.

And people are right, there are definitely 3 people involved! Consider Alex zooms in on the person, someone runs up (even gait, listen to the steps) and mashes him across the face. Once he down, we all of a sudden see someone kneeling and a guy limps up 10 seconds after the hit! Tim did not take down Alex, neither did the person being chased.

Joseph and Troy are not afraid of pushing the watcher, they have said as much. TTA is clearly at least 3 people, we know have seen them all in the same place, confirming that at least three of them do exist.



Yes 3 different people: Masky, Hoody, and maybe Skully

I think saying that the Hooded character from 41 is not the hooded character from 45 is like saying the Masky that attacked Jay at the house was a different Masky than the one that teleported Jay from his room(WHICH PEOPLE DID SPECUALTE!). It just doesn't make sense from a story perspective.


It may not make sense, but from all the evidence pointed out in many, many post prior to this, the hooded character in this Entry has a different mask, I'm not saying its a new character, since he could have been trying something a little different, but due to the change up, and only seeing them in one entry each, we cannot say Yay or Nay to it being the same person or a new member of the Masked brigade, we'll just have to wait for answers to come our way.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:02 am
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Sleight
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Joined: 23 Jul 2011
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 		So let's all put aside Blasky vs Woodsy then. We can agree they look similar in some ways and different in others. We know they used a different actor, maybe they had to use a different mask.

IF it is a different character, we are looking at Tim + 3 others (maybe ToThePark, why have a throwaway character?)

IF it is the same, we are looking at Tim + 2 others. In either case, we have presumably one female.

More to the point, we know a different Skull mask exists as Skully. We know there is at least one hooded figure. Does anyone know how many apparently different video styles TTA has made? That's the best way to guess how many people are in the Masked Gang.

Did anyone else see TO standing at 2:56 to 2:57 on the right side of the screen in the darkness below the tree as the camera pans right? He's only there for a moment, approaching it seems.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:05 am
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Yuki
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Camero wrote:
Yuki wrote:

I think Tim was hiding behind a tree or something and perhaps bashed him with a rock. We don't see a third masked person, so it doesn't make much sense to me to assume one's there at this point.


Seriously? This is marble freaking hornets. The whole point of this is that you can't see half of the shit that's going down. I STILL can't see freaking Operator in this entry(screenshot?). In any case you're right, there's no reason to ASSUME that there were three of them, but the POSSIBILITY that there were three has some compelling reasons to believe it--I'm not convinced that Tim could have hit Alex with the rock, given that Alex managed to push it aside once he was on the ground very easily.


Yes, it's Marble Hornets, but I'm a huge fan of simplicity. Just as I think Jay simply got lost in the woods in the entry where he talks to Alex and finds his camera in his car, and just as I think that Alex didn't teleport into the forest in his Operator encounter, I think there's no reason to assume there's a third ToTheArk member in the woods at that point. Tim is out of the shot, he takes Alex down, then limps around to the front of the camera.

You may believe otherwise. That's fine. But I personally see no reason to complicate things with a third random person in the forest that we see no sign of.

Quote:
What's more interesting, I believe is why Alex originally went out without a camera. For someone as paranoid as he is, especially after a recent contact with the Operator, it just seems strange. Going along with the 'Alex is in cahoots with the Operator' theory, maybe Alex did see the Operator outside and went to see him. Or maybe he was gonna go someplace where he could see Mr. O (and lead him to the ark?). But instead, he saw New Masky (Nasky?), grabbed his camera, and started chasing him.


What I think is that he heard something outside or was just so paranoid that he looked. He opens the door, checks outside, realizes someone's there and so he grabs the camera. It looked like he was in the middle of changing tapes or sorting them, so it doesn't surprise me he didn't grab the camera right away.

Quote:

That image of the Operator at the end--the one from #40 (it definitely is--you can see the same open space and the same trees if you look at ZombiePiggy's comparison pic). OMG what does it mean. What freaks me out the most about it is that it has no business being there. It's obviously not from this camera.


I don't know if it's just another tree or what, but I swear I see the Operator when Alex pans up into the branches, on the lower-left of the tree closest to him. Perhaps it's just trying to show more that the Operator is there, or that there's corruption on the hard drive.

Quote:
From a story perspective it makes no FUCKING sense to introduce a new hooded character when we were introduced to Hoody just a couple entries ago and we only saw one 5 second shot of him


I agree with this; however, I have to say that the mask is too different-coloured to be the same one as Hoody's, unfortunately.

Quote:

This is by far the most you've said to back up your claim. I was getting angry because all everyone was saying was "he went to the Operator", not even mentioning the fact it was a Slendertrance. At least now I can have somewhat of a debate.


Unless I've missed it, all I've seen you say to back up your own claim is HE IS NOT SLENDYTRANCED BECAUSE HE WASN'T EARLIER. Care to enlighten me, if I've missed something?

I think the very possible-fact it was a Slendertrance when he went to the Operator in the first place is important. I don't think we've seen anyone directly under the Operator's control, since this entry pretty much confirms that Masky isn't. Hell, I don't think we've seen anyone besides maybe Jay get this close to the Operator before, though Jay's was more of a SHIT HE IS RIGHT THERE rather than being controlled. Because Alex was controlled in the first place, I think that control remains.

(It makes more sense to me for it to be either a Slendertrance or Alex going toward The Operator despite physical difficulties in order to remain on his side. I doubt he could fight it in any form with how much difficulty he was having.)

Quote:

You could easily argue that the video/audio distortions have been covering them up, somehow, but... I don't know. The tearing was a couple seconds prior to their reaction, so I don't think it would've concealed it in the video. To me, it implies that if that was TO, he actually did something to actively call attention to himself, which seems... unusual, and the lack of recorded evidence of that implies telepathy. Not that that's anything new.


We hear audio distortion sometimes when the Operator is around. Perhaps it's like that? I know my ears are sensitive to the humming noise of the security detectors at my public library, so it could be like that, or like when animals know there's danger.

Quote:

This would all make sense if we had concrete proof that Hoody was there.


It totally would... if we had evidence there was a third person. I don't see any, though, so unless I missed something...

Quote:

Proxy rivalry. Perhaps, for some alien reason we don't yet grasp, the Operator really likes having Alex work for him and Alex is becoming his favoured servant. This may not sit well with more long-standing accomplices like Tim. The Maskies disappear when the Operator shows up because they don't want a spanking.


This sounds like the least-likely out of any of your three ideas, to me.

Quote:
You have no concrete proof that Woodsy and Hoody are different characters. BECUASE THEY ARE PROBABLY NOT.


Dude, calm down. No need for constant caps; you are not right. They are not right. There's no proof either way at this point. I think it's most obvious that Hoody was in the video, but at the same time, you gotta admit that the mask colouring was different than before.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:06 am
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Sleight
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Joined: 23 Jul 2011
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 		Yuki!

Please rewatch 42! He was Slendertranced earlier. That is the point! I made a big post 10 pages ago.

Watch all of 42. Note the motion of the camera and the sounds of him walking. It is SOOO smooth and natural until the jump. Then all of a sudden he is walking really heavy and it gets worse and worse!

Look at Alex enter the HOLE! Look at his arms hanging loosely by his sides! His knees barely bend. I promise it is hugely different from the start to finish of 42.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:10 am
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AfterHours
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Yuki wrote:

Quote:

This is by far the most you've said to back up your claim. I was getting angry because all everyone was saying was "he went to the Operator", not even mentioning the fact it was a Slendertrance. At least now I can have somewhat of a debate.


Unless I've missed it, all I've seen you say to back up your own claim is HE IS NOT SLENDYTRANCED BECAUSE HE WASN'T EARLIER. Care to enlighten me, if I've missed something?

I think the very possible-fact it was a Slendertrance when he went to the Operator in the first place is important. I don't think we've seen anyone directly under the Operator's control, since this entry pretty much confirms that Masky isn't. Hell, I don't think we've seen anyone besides maybe Jay get this close to the Operator before, though Jay's was more of a SHIT HE IS RIGHT THERE rather than being controlled. Because Alex was controlled in the first place, I think that control remains.

(It makes more sense to me for it to be either a Slendertrance or Alex going toward The Operator despite physical difficulties in order to remain on his side. I doubt he could fight it in any form with how much difficulty he was having.)


You must not have read them, then? I've been saying that him going towards the Operator in 43 is because of Slendertrance. What people were saying was the Operator and Alex were working together because he went towards him in the forest. However, he was clearly being drawn in by SOME force, making it irrelevant. Also, neither this entry nor Entry 44 ever show them working together under Alex's free will, which is what everyone was pretty much saying. There's no evidence for this AT ALL. If they are working "together", it's far more likely Alex is partially controlled by the Operator.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:13 am
Last edited by AfterHours on Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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fredsolo
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Joined: 17 Feb 2011
Posts: 67
Location: Filmland
Mr. Fischer wrote:
fredsolo wrote:
Mr. Fischer wrote:
Let's simplify the scenario.

Woodsy's job was to lure Alex to the undisclosed location.

Hoody's job was to immobilize Alex.

and

Masky was supposed to finish the job.

This would all make sense if we had concrete proof that Hoody was there.


You have no concrete proof that Woodsy and Hoody are different characters. BECUASE THEY ARE PROBABLY NOT.


Thats like saying the hooded figure in #41 is Masky. Of coarse I have concrete proof, the video clearly shows a different mask.



There's your proof sista!


Not concrete enough. I'm for once very skeptical of whether that's even a different mask since it's night vision and all but let's just say for argument's sake say it is. Maybe Troy and Joseph weren't satisfied with Hoody's look from 41, maybe they even shot this entry with Hoody's original mask and decided it looked like crap and re-shot it with a new mask(According to Troy's twitter they had to re-shoot this entry) and decided it wasn't a big deal since we only saw Hoody for a couple seconds in Entry 41 and this entry was shot on night vision and all.

You want your "antagonists" to have clear and memorable introductions like Masky and Hoody did. You want the audience to clearly know this is a new character they haven't seen before. You don't want them to go, "umm I think this is the same guy from that one time" because then you obviously didn't introduce the character the right way.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:15 am
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DonMonte
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Joined: 21 Jun 2011
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AfterHours wrote:
DonMonte wrote:
AfterHours wrote:
...not even mentioning the fact it was a Slendertrance.

Probably because there's not conclusive evidence that it was. There is evidence... but there's also evidence against it.
AfterHours wrote:
ToTheArk has insisted that even Jay was untrustworthy at times, and has never been too fond of Alex at all IIRC.

You say that like it's definitive that TTA was talking about Jay at the time... but it isn't. It's certainly possible, but again, it's also possible that he wasn't.

Basically, your argument could be either right or wrong, based largely on whether or not your evidence is right or wrong.


If you could find evidence against it being a Slendertrance, I'd be happy to see it.


The same evidence that supports a Slendertrance, walking toward the Operator in Entry #43 and telling Jess not to worry about Amy (essentially), could also be evidence of Alex tenaciously wanting to confront the Operator alone.

AfterHours wrote:
Also, he has called Jay out on at least one occasion ("tell us. you have been keeping secrets. smile for the camera"). The next entry was him confessing that he had been keeping his own logs.


Wasn't that next entry the one in which Masky shows up on cam? We hadn't heard a whole lot from Tim... so any secrets Tim had could have been said secrets. He also got up close to the camera... I wouldn't be surprised if he was smiling under that mask.

All I'm saying is that you're claiming things as fact, when they're just strongly suggested.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:17 am
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DonMonte
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fredsolo wrote:

Not concrete enough. I'm for once very skeptical of whether that's even a different mask since it's night vision and all but let's just say for argument's sake say it is. Maybe Troy and Joseph weren't satisfied with Hoody's look from 41, maybe they even shot this entry with Hoody's original mask and decided it looked like crap and re-shot it with a new mask(According to Troy's twitter they had to re-shoot this entry) and decided it wasn't a big deal since we only saw Hoody for a couple seconds in Entry 41 and this entry was shot on night vision and all.

You want your "antagonists" to have clear and memorable introductions like Masky and Hoody did. You want the audience to clearly know this is a new character they haven't seen before. You don't want them to go, "umm I think this is the same guy from that one time" because then you obviously didn't introduce the character the right way.


So... you want the audience to easily identify who the characters are... but Troseph decided to change one of those character's outfits? I see a contradiction there.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:21 am
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MorbidPuppies
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Joined: 24 Nov 2010
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fredsolo wrote:
Mr. Fischer wrote:
fredsolo wrote:
Mr. Fischer wrote:
Let's simplify the scenario.

Woodsy's job was to lure Alex to the undisclosed location.

Hoody's job was to immobilize Alex.

and

Masky was supposed to finish the job.

This would all make sense if we had concrete proof that Hoody was there.


You have no concrete proof that Woodsy and Hoody are different characters. BECUASE THEY ARE PROBABLY NOT.


Thats like saying the hooded figure in #41 is Masky. Of coarse I have concrete proof, the video clearly shows a different mask.



There's your proof sista!


Not concrete enough. I'm for once very skeptical of whether that's even a different mask since it's night vision and all but let's just say for argument's sake say it is. Maybe Troy and Joseph weren't satisfied with Hoody's look from 41, maybe they even shot this entry with Hoody's original mask and decided it looked like crap and re-shot it with a new mask(According to Troy's twitter they had to re-shoot this entry) and decided it wasn't a big deal since we only saw Hoody for a couple seconds in Entry 41 and this entry was shot on night vision and all.

You want your "antagonists" to have clear and memorable introductions like Masky and Hoody did. You want the audience to clearly know this is a new character they haven't seen before. You don't want them to go, "umm I think this is the same guy from that one time" because then you obviously didn't introduce the character the right way.


The proof he referring to is that fact that the night vision argument doesn't work here due to the fact that night vision won't change the color of black, so instead of just his eyes being black his whole face would have been black, so yes, as you stated and as I said before, he could be trying a different mask, but until we know for sure, nether side of this argument can claim they are right since this is all speculation until we are given clear evidence.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:23 am
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Mr. Fischer
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 		Why can't most of you process the thought of this being a new hooded character. I honestly DO NOT UNDERSTAND. We have been hinted blatantly that there are multiple TTA/Masked Characters. You're all saying it doesn't make sense to bring in a new character, when it does! You need to look past the if's and but's. You need to see the big picture! Obviously they were going to eventually bring in another character. Why not now? It's never to soon. Why on Earth would Hoody change his appearance, it makes no sense. We know that the MH crew establishes these mysterious masked characters through their RECOGNIZABLE MASKS (Timasky). The mask in this entry was clearly I mean CLEARLY different from the masked figure in #41 (Hoody). Night vision my ass! Masky would have been color distorted as well. Get it through your heads! We've been introduced to a new masked character. I stand STRONG on my statements.

/rant

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:23 am
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Zebez
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AfterHours wrote:
Also, he has called Jay out on at least one occasion ("tell us. you have been keeping secrets. smile for the camera"). The next entry was him confessing that he had been keeping his own logs.


Wasn't that next entry the one in which Masky shows up on cam? We hadn't heard a whole lot from Tim... so any secrets Tim had could have been said secrets. He also got up close to the camera... I wouldn't be surprised if he was smiling under that mask.

All I'm saying is that you're claiming things as fact, when they're just strongly suggested.[/quote]

It seems simpler to say that Jay was the one keeping secrets, as he tells the audience that he had been filming himself right after this response. (I just watched it today, as I got the DVD) Occam yes?

Also many ideas are derived from leaps in thought, based on previous evidence. Strongly suggested is the best we have to go on.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:28 am
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Caelistis
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Mr. Fischer wrote:
Why can't most of you process the thought of this being a new hooded character. I honestly DO NOT UNDERSTAND. We have been hinted blatantly that there are multiple TTA/Masked Characters. You're all saying it doesn't make sense to bring in a new character, when it does! You need to look past the if's and but's. You need to see the big picture! Obviously they were going to eventually bring in another character. Why not now? It's never to soon. Why on Earth would Hoody change his appearance, it makes no sense. We know that the MH crew establishes these mysterious masked characters through their RECOGNIZABLE MASKS (Timasky). The mask in this entry was clearly I mean CLEARLY different from the masked figure in #41 (Hoody). Night vision my ass! Masky would have been color distorted as well. Get it through your heads! We've been introduced to a new masked character. I stand STRONG on my statements.

/rant


Agreed.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:29 am
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DonMonte
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Mr. Fischer wrote:
rant

I've seen (I think) you argue that "both masks would be altered by night-vision" thing before. Before I begin, though, I want to say that I do agree that there are 3 people other than Alex and the Operator in this video.

Anyway, night-vision doesn't really work like that, only changing colors. It also depends on the material of the color in question, since night-vision generally works by shining an infrared light at what you're filming, and capturing that light. So, if the black ink on Masky's mask absorbs that light, it will appear black, but if Hoodie or Woodsy's cloth mask reflects some of that light, it will appear grey.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:30 am
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