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Forum index » Diversions » The Master Theorem

What Some People Call Fate
Moderators: Cougar Draven

Page 2 of 3 [33 Posts]

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eak
Guest

how to do fractions

Assuming I can add the fractions I have are:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

1/13, 18/39, 2/13, 3/13, 6/52, 11/26, 38/52, 92/104, 1/26, 21/39

Which become common nicely to:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

2/26, 12/26, 4/26, 9/26, 3/26, 11/26, 19/26, 23/26, 1/26, 14/26

Which when you convert to letters becomes:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

BLDICKSWAO

Which as far as I can tell doesn't mean anything, anagrammed or Caesarred. What am I missing? After I got this far, I asked for all three hints, and they were the steps I'd already done, so it seems like this is the answer, but it doesn't make sense.

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:10 am

HUH
Guest

Re: how to do fractions

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

3/13 should convert to 6/26 not 9/26 thus e not i

NOT that it changes the gobbledygook of the result

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:19 am

b0b
Boot

Joined: 24 Aug 2011
Posts: 27

Re: how to do fractions

eak wrote:

Assuming I can add the fractions I have are:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

1/13, 18/39, 2/13, 3/13, 6/52, 11/26, 38/52, 92/104, 1/26, 21/39

Which become common nicely to:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

2/26, 12/26, 4/26, 9/26, 3/26, 11/26, 19/26, 23/26, 1/26, 14/26

Which when you convert to letters becomes:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

BLDICKSWAO

maybe I can correct a few of your errors:

specific to this

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

2/13 and 3/13 are being interpreted incorrectly. They should be one probability. How does one combine probabilities for sequential actions? Also, Once the first action was completed, the total denominator changes for the second one. Yes, I'm being vague on purpose.

general spoiler

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

Wiki probabilities, there is a gray table that contains all the actions you need.

[/spoiler]

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:30 am

what gives
Guest

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

doiing the prob as 2/13 the 3 /11 (11 remains in the denom after remove the first ball) give 6/143 which cant go to a 26 denom liek the rest (143 = 26x5.5)

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:39 am

Real Help
Guest

Re: how to do fractions

Realize that there should be

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

1 letter per group in the picture ie 9 letters

Note

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as does b0b that the 2/13&3/13 should be one probability

BUT don't waste time on the math -- M is back to doing math kinda sorta right

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

(13-2=11 NOT 12)

Then translate eaks fractions to letters as he has done but look out for the error in translating he made

eak wrote:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

1/13, 18/39, 2/13, 3/13, 6/52, 11/26, 38/52, 92/104, 1/26, 21/39

Which become common nicely to:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

2/26, 12/26, 4/26, 9/26, 3/26, 11/26, 19/26, 23/26, 1/26, 14/26

You should be able to guess the answer without the third letter

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Personally I call Fate "you arrogant rat bastard" (except when he behaves, then I call him Phil -- but you lot should probably stick to Sir) which makes as much sense as the answer to this theorem.

2nd one in a row for M that has had errors in elementary fact checking.
(The user created one last week not being counted.)
This ain't the way to run a railroad, buddy.

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:12 am

Kappa Magi
Guest

Re: how to do fractions

Thanks, 3 hours shot to S b/c of this
got 5.5 for the conversion and figured it could only work with 11 or 22 so I dropped that line as the forming word was blown.

Real Help wrote:

Personally I call Fate "you arrogant rat bastard" (except when he behaves, then I call him Phil -- but you lot should probably stick to Sir) which makes as much sense as the answer to this theorem.

ROTFLMAO
I think of Fate as female, Lady Luck and similar endearments when the dice are with me, something that probably exceeds this forums age rating when she goes haring off after some unworthy type.

Real Help wrote:

2nd one in a row for M that has had errors in elementary fact checking.
(The user created one last week not being counted.)
This ain't the way to run a railroad, buddy.

NO SHINOLA
Looks like there's a job or three for fact checkers and proofreaders open.
(My 7 yo grandkid could have spotted this week's gaff Evil or Very Mad

)

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:38 am

b0b
Boot

Joined: 24 Aug 2011
Posts: 27

I didn't notice any errors. You might be calculating probabilities incorrectly if you think there were some.

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:41 am

Mercury
Guest

Real Help wrote:

BUT don't waste time on the math -- M is back to doing math kinda sorta right

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

(13-2=11 NOT 12)

Then translate eaks fractions to letters as he has done but look out for the error in translating he made

Personally I call Fate "you arrogant rat bastard" (except when he behaves, then I call him Phil -- but you lot should probably stick to Sir) which makes as much sense as the answer to this theorem.

2nd one in a row for M that has had errors in elementary fact checking.
(The user created one last week not being counted.)
This ain't the way to run a railroad, buddy.

M is totally correct, you are interpreting him incorrectly.

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:43 am

Mercury
Guest

Just to add, that the numbers on the ball refer to:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

The amount of that coloured ball, so it's 12-1 not 12-2

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:56 am

The Baffled King
Boot

Joined: 07 Sep 2011
Posts: 34

draws without replacement

I think b0b is right -- the problem isn't in the interpretation. The solvers who think there was a factual mistake just have to think a little harder about how to calculate the probabilities of successive draws without replacement.

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:30 am

Gramps
Guest

I think this issue is an age thing.

This took me ~2 hrs of headbanging last night.
This morning the 17 year old I showed it to took about 5 seconds to start doing it correctly, BUT her 40 yo father went down the same path I (and apparently a lot of others did) treating

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

the display to the right of the '/' as an array of 'pool' or 'bingo' balls not a representation of how many of each color are in the bag.

So far none of the official clues -- nor anyone responding here -- has yet pointed out that this is the critical point to this puzzle.

Breakfast discussion showed that the difference in perception (at least among my descendents) was based on whether or not they had previously seen the probability of a marble of color 'A' from a bag with n of color 'A', m of color 'B', etc. presented this way.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

[ The oldsters (> ~35) looked at the first group as 1/4 [i.e. 1 black from four balls rather than 1/13 i.e. 1 black from 3 blue, 4 red, 1 black, & 5 tan.]
This means there isn't a math error in the puzzle; it's just very dependent on recognizing a specific way of presenting a standard problem.

Personally, I think the first official clue ought to have indicated what the display was trying to convey better, but that may well be due to the youth of the writer leading to an assumption that all would be familiar with that way of presenting the math problem.

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:08 am

scooter22
Guest

Mercury wrote:

Just to add, that the numbers on the ball refer to:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

The amount of that coloured ball, so it's 12-1 not 12-2

Actually,

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

thinking of the balls as "amounts" got me all messed up, as I would've thought that in the second part of the "then" case, you'd take out # 2 YELLOW BALL which would mean subtract 2. But it really is the "number" of balls, as in Y-Y, in which case you would subtract just 1.

Nice puzzle, one I should've figured out quicker (I keep overthinking it), but I keep forgetting that M

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

loves addition

and for the most part,

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

the answer is read in order (not an anagram)

. The latter meaning that even if you misinterpret the "then" part, you'll still be able to figure out the answer.

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:09 am

Nylund
Boot

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 12

I guess maybe someone could get confused if they thought this was probabilities with replacement, but intuitively, without replacement made more sense (at least to me). I don't see any errors or mistakes with this puzzle.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

Regarding the third probability: For the first draw, it's 2 out of 13, and for the second (after one has been removed), it's 3 out of 12. The combined probability is just those multiplied together, and yes, this fraction can be rewritten with a denominator of 26.

As far as I'm concerned, there are no errors and nothing was too confusing. It all made perfect sense to me.

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:35 pm

SoItBegins
Veteran

Joined: 16 May 2011
Posts: 83

Yeah� it was a nice puzzle!

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:10 pm

scooter22
Guest

SoItBegins wrote:

Yeah� it was a nice puzzle!

I agree, frustrating as it was. If M would have

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

given the puzzle (using the 1st example) as BLK / BLUE BLUE BLUE RED RED RED RED BLK TAN TAN TAN TAN TAN instead of BLK / BLUE3 RED4 BLK1 TAN5,

then this would've been a straightforward path and as boring as the GPS one (brute force). But his little tweak of representing the balls (if you even knew they were balls) was cool, and as you can see, confusing and open to interpretation, which makes it fun when you finally figure it out.

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:41 pm

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