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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
Season 1 or Season 2 - which do you prefer?
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Tharol
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee

Joined: 02 Oct 2011
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Season one had to start out slow as well as point.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:15 pm
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tijde
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I wrote this on my phone during lunch and forgot about it till now. Redherring said some of it already:

I've genuinely enjoyed the turn S2 has taken toward storytelling. S1 did have a different flavor, but I doubt I would remain as interested as I am if we hadn't seen the interpersonal dynamics and characters evolve. The scares and WTF-ness of S1 were fresh and different. As an avid horror fan, I love that. But it's hard to sustain a long-term project on that alone--stay there too long, and it becomes stale. I appreciate S2 because I'm also an avid mystery fan. S2 has been much heavier on the more human mystery angle, while still incorporating elements of cosmic horror. Seeing the two interwoven is an even newer take on what was fresh about MH to begin with, IMO.

Maybe I just have a hard time hearing "It used to be better!" as anything but cryabeetus.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:50 pm
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MistrPibb
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46 was the only entry to have me scared this season. For the most part it was very well done, and really brought us back to "HOW THE HELL IS THAT NOT REAL".

In my opinion, Season 2 turned the series into a drama, and I don't care for all of that. I became hooked because of the mystery and scares we had in the first season. I was hooked because I wanted to see Jay walking through creepy places where doors randomly teleport him to other doors. I was hooked because I liked feeling Alex's growing paranoia that would lead to a mysterious end of the footage.
You get it, Season One was the bee's knees.

Now I am only hooked because I want to know what the hell I just saw.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:30 pm
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pravado
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Joined: 22 Apr 2011
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season one is by far more creepy, season 2 has better TTA entries and overall has me on the edge of my seat more, but season 2 lacks any sort of creepy factor due to slendy not moving

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:20 am
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Tharol
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee

Joined: 02 Oct 2011
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People could say the season one was better updating the videos.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:28 am
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Spritey
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Season 1 had better scares.

Season 2 has a better plot, better acting, more character development, a higher production value, and is more fast-paced.

I just wish they'd make Slenderman move around again rather than relying 100% on the "distortion + teleportation" method. It works most of the time, but sometimes he just looks like a high-class scarecrow.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:29 am
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awakeasaurusrex
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Joined: 12 Oct 2010
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tijde wrote:
I wrote this on my phone during lunch and forgot about it till now. Redherring said some of it already:

I've genuinely enjoyed the turn S2 has taken toward storytelling. S1 did have a different flavor, but I doubt I would remain as interested as I am if we hadn't seen the interpersonal dynamics and characters evolve.

Sure, but then again S1 wasn't devoid of insights into character and interpersonal dynamics - remember all the footage of the actual shooting and crew meetings and so forth? There's been a deliberate shift from developing character and dynamics through naturalistic slice of life stuff to character acting.

Quote:
Maybe I just have a hard time hearing "It used to be better!" as anything but cryabeetus.

So in your world reasoned and thought-out criticism is indistinguishable from cryabeetus?

Well, uh, enjoy that.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:29 am
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redherring
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awakeasaurusrex wrote:
tijde wrote:
I wrote this on my phone during lunch and forgot about it till now. Redherring said some of it already:

I've genuinely enjoyed the turn S2 has taken toward storytelling. S1 did have a different flavor, but I doubt I would remain as interested as I am if we hadn't seen the interpersonal dynamics and characters evolve.

Sure, but then again S1 wasn't devoid of insights into character and interpersonal dynamics - remember all the footage of the actual shooting and crew meetings and so forth? There's been a deliberate shift from developing character and dynamics through naturalistic slice of life stuff to character acting.


I don't think anyone's arguing S1 just ignored characterization (or at least, I hope not, or I'll smack 'em upside the head Razz ). If Season One had not made any attempts at developing characters, nobody would've watched it. I think the point was that it feels like they're making a more conscious effort to focus on characterization this season.

Yes, this season is considerably more focused on acting vs. that natural 'slice of life' style of S1, but given the story we're being told this season we couldn't get away with as much of the found footage 'people just talking and/or arguing' scenarios because, well... it's not just a guy being stalked and filming himself in his house, or filming from on the set of a student film production where nobody's aware of the faceless menace's presence.

In season two we had two people who both knew (to some extent) what was going on, that shit was real, and that there was work to be done. There was a more tangible goal (find Amy, instead of Look at Tapes to Uncover the Mystery of Alex) so we saw two people trying to achieve that, and watched as their friendship fell apart when one party realized the other was not being upfront and honest about things. So 'dramatic' and character-acted segments were kind of a necessity. There isn't a reason we'd see footage of Alex and Jay chatting about random things, goofing around, etc because that isn't happening now - now we have two people in conflict (both with and against each other) and the mystery comes into play when we start watching footage from the 'other side' and realize that there might be reasons why things are going so badly, that he has some secrets he's keeping.

Obviously you don't have to be happy with this change in direction, but I think contextualizing why it's changed is important (and is the crux of much of what I posted back on p2). A lot of people are upset with the changes and feel like the series lost some of the 'charm' of S1, but I suppose I just see it as a natural evolution of the way the story is told to address this chapter of the story, where we need to see more of their emotions and interactions on a personal level in order to get the full picture.

If there was a tl;dr for this (though I hesitate to point this out, because nobody ever responds well to my summarizations of my lengthy posts) it'd be that S1 was mostly protagonists behind a camera looking at things happening and then reacting to them, while S2 turned the camera around a lot more and focused on the protagonists themselves and what was happening to them and between them. The former is more horror/suspense, while the latter falls more into mystery/noir.

Some people don't like the latter, and that's fine, you don't have to. There is a serious charm for the first season's genre and formal style that I will admit I miss a lot this season, but that I've come to accept as something that, had it persisted, would've meant losing something of the story this season.

And, again, that's my opinion, and the thread asked for it. Very Happy

[/long-ass rambling response] Razz

awakeasaurusrex wrote:
Quote:
Maybe I just have a hard time hearing "It used to be better!" as anything but cryabeetus.

So in your world reasoned and thought-out criticism is indistinguishable from cryabeetus?

Well, uh, enjoy that.


Maybe I'm not reading into his statement as much as I should here, but when I read that I read it pretty literally - when people simply state that 'the original was better' or 'the first season was better' or what have you, it grates me as well, because it's usually followed by a butt-hurt explanation of how amazing and awesome the original was, and that the only reason everything following it sucks is that it's different.

So I don't see what he said as an attack against you, awake, or anyone else who's got valid reasoning apart from 'IT'S DIFFERENT!' for why you prefer Season One over Season Two. I'll admit when I opened this thread I was under the immediate impression that this was gonna be yet another 'Season One was just scarier and better and this is just too slow and un-scary' deal, but when I read what you wrote it changed my tune a bit. I don't agree with everything you bring up, honestly (you can read my post on p2 to understand why) but I respect that you actually took the time to point out significant elements that you didn't like from S2 / did like from S1, and formed your opinion with consideration for that. I couldn't say the same for everybody on uF so I give you some props for that. [+10 props for awakeasaurus]

On the other hand, maybe tijde was just saying that anyone pointing out that 'this used to be so much better!' is simply 'cryabeetus', in which case I guess my defense of that statement is kind of moot. *shrug* Either way, I'm glad this discussion isn't devolving into 'ewwyoulikeseason2better!' 'fuckyoufagseason2issomuchbetter' bullshit, so kudos on starting a potentially flammable thread that didn't burst into flames in the first three pages! Very Happy That doesn't happen often around here, haha.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:25 am
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awakeasaurusrex
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redherring wrote:
If there was a tl;dr for this (though I hesitate to point this out, because nobody ever responds well to my summarizations of my lengthy posts) it'd be that S1 was mostly protagonists behind a camera looking at things happening and then reacting to them, while S2 turned the camera around a lot more and focused on the protagonists themselves and what was happening to them and between them. The former is more horror/suspense, while the latter falls more into mystery/noir.

Some people don't like the latter, and that's fine, you don't have to. There is a serious charm for the first season's genre and formal style that I will admit I miss a lot this season, but that I've come to accept as something that, had it persisted, would've meant losing something of the story this season.

I like mystery/noir, I'm just not entirely fond of the way MH is doing it. I also don't like it when things start out in one genre/mode and then switch horses between seasons to another one - once the first season or movie or book or whatever establishes a particular style for a story, changing horses feels like a jarring discontinuity.

Basically I'm of the view that if you want to tell a horror/suspense story, do that, and if you want to tell a mystery/noir story, do that, and if you want a story which is both of those things have both elements good and mixed in together from the very start. But if you got heavy on the horror/suspense and then switch abruptly to mystery/noir, then I just end up wishing you had made those two halves of your things separate stories altogether. Then I could have got closure on the horror/suspense tale and your mystery/noir thing doesn't have all this horror/suspense precedent acting as baggage.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:58 am
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redherring
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awakeasaurusrex wrote:
redherring wrote:
If there was a tl;dr for this (though I hesitate to point this out, because nobody ever responds well to my summarizations of my lengthy posts) it'd be that S1 was mostly protagonists behind a camera looking at things happening and then reacting to them, while S2 turned the camera around a lot more and focused on the protagonists themselves and what was happening to them and between them. The former is more horror/suspense, while the latter falls more into mystery/noir.

Some people don't like the latter, and that's fine, you don't have to. There is a serious charm for the first season's genre and formal style that I will admit I miss a lot this season, but that I've come to accept as something that, had it persisted, would've meant losing something of the story this season.

I like mystery/noir, I'm just not entirely fond of the way MH is doing it. I also don't like it when things start out in one genre/mode and then switch horses between seasons to another one - once the first season or movie or book or whatever establishes a particular style for a story, changing horses feels like a jarring discontinuity.

Basically I'm of the view that if you want to tell a horror/suspense story, do that, and if you want to tell a mystery/noir story, do that, and if you want a story which is both of those things have both elements good and mixed in together from the very start. But if you got heavy on the horror/suspense and then switch abruptly to mystery/noir, then I just end up wishing you had made those two halves of your things separate stories altogether. Then I could have got closure on the horror/suspense tale and your mystery/noir thing doesn't have all this horror/suspense precedent acting as baggage.


I didn't mean to imply you don't like mystery/noir (I should've been more specific - by latter I meant 'S2 turned the camera around a lot more and focused on the protagonists themselves and what was happening to them and between them'). Sorry if it came off that way.

To clarify further, I also don't think S1 and S2 are strictly horror/suspense and mystery/noir respectively (as I also seem to have unwittingly implied). Although much of S2 has been shifting in a mystery/noir direction, a number of entries still have those 'holycrapthereheis' suspense moments with Masky and The Operator (when Masky makes Jessica disappear and assaults Jay, the Masky attack on Alex, Operator's hypnotic effect on Alex in the woods, Jay running into the Operator near those weird chimney things). Just as well, a huge part of S1 was the mystery of everything and Jay's exploration (although I guess the 'noir' feel really didn't kick in until we started looking at the lost seven months of footage).

You're right though, it did shift gears a bit once we started looking into the seven months of footage from the vault tapes/HDD, and I see why that shift isn't what everyone's looking for in MH.

Like I said before, I respect why you've arrived at the conclusion that Season One was better - you're not an idiot, and I'm not going to try to 'convince you' that Season Two is just as good. In the same way, I'm not going to suddenly change my feelings and reactions to S2. I happen to like what it does, and I think it's important to promote a fair argument for the things that work for those of us who enjoyed S2 at the same level we enjoyed S1, which is what I've hopefully been accomplishing.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:20 am
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awakeasaurusrex
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redherring wrote:
Like I said before, I respect why you've arrived at the conclusion that Season One was better - you're not an idiot, and I'm not going to try to 'convince you' that Season Two is just as good. In the same way, I'm not going to suddenly change my feelings and reactions to S2. I happen to like what it does, and I think it's important to promote a fair argument for the things that work for those of us who enjoyed S2 at the same level we enjoyed S1, which is what I've hopefully been accomplishing.
Never said you were attacking/trying to convince me, never was attacking/trying to convince you.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:02 pm
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redherring
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awakeasaurusrex wrote:
redherring wrote:
Like I said before, I respect why you've arrived at the conclusion that Season One was better - you're not an idiot, and I'm not going to try to 'convince you' that Season Two is just as good. In the same way, I'm not going to suddenly change my feelings and reactions to S2. I happen to like what it does, and I think it's important to promote a fair argument for the things that work for those of us who enjoyed S2 at the same level we enjoyed S1, which is what I've hopefully been accomplishing.
Never said you were attacking/trying to convince me, never was attacking/trying to convince you.


Glad to hear that!

Again, I seem to have unwittingly implied something I didn't mean to, this time that a) you thought I was trying to convince/attack you and b) that I thought you were trying to convince me. ^__^'' Before I just start making more of a mess of this, I'll just spell it out frankly.

What I meant to say was: I don't want you to do think I am trying to convince you or something silly like that, for one because you're not an idiot - I respect that you feel differently than I do, and two because I wouldn't want the same thing done to me (which I am glad you are not doing).

Sometimes when I'm writing these page-and-a-half long replies, I think I make something understandable before I post it, only to realize after that it sounds much more convoluted outside of my head. Razz
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:42 pm
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tijde
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redherring's interpretation of my post was pretty spot-on (minus pronouns--I'm a she Smile). I was saying I have a pre-existing bias against "It used to be better!" That may be influencing my opinion here, since the original post could be boiled down to "IMO, it used to be better, and here's why." Much more reasonable than "OMG IT'S JUST DIFFERENT!", but since it still includes "It used to be better," I might not be entirely objective. In the same self-disclosure vein, I should say that I came in late, around #43, so I saw S1 and half of S2 in one go.

awakeasaurusrex wrote:
I like mystery/noir, I'm just not entirely fond of the way MH is doing it. I also don't like it when things start out in one genre/mode and then switch horses between seasons to another one - once the first season or movie or book or whatever establishes a particular style for a story, changing horses feels like a jarring discontinuity.

Basically I'm of the view that if you want to tell a horror/suspense story, do that, and if you want to tell a mystery/noir story, do that, and if you want a story which is both of those things have both elements good and mixed in together from the very start. But if you got heavy on the horror/suspense and then switch abruptly to mystery/noir, then I just end up wishing you had made those two halves of your things separate stories altogether. Then I could have got closure on the horror/suspense tale and your mystery/noir thing doesn't have all this horror/suspense precedent acting as baggage.

If we were talking about a film or a novel--something that had a fully developed story before being presented for consumption--I would agree with you here. But we're not. Troy & co. have been very up-front about the fact that the story has been evolving throughout. If the storytellers believe the better story lies in this direction, rather than the direction S1 was headed, I'd rather they made the shift, even if there are a few bumps along the way. I'll go along for the ride and enjoy it for what it is.

I could say a lot more, but most of it's been covered already, and I don't see the point in arguing opinions much anyway.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:04 pm
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rand__althor
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Well, I'm still waiting for season two to officially conclude before thinking about this, but if I were to decide right now...

The two seasons have obviously felt different. Season one was a mixture of things, with entries all over the place, in terms of the timeline. There were no continuing narrative threads to tie various entries together (well, maybe some narrative threads, but not many). Most of season one was comprised of footage from Alex's tapes.

Season two started off in the "present timeline", and eventually switched over to the tapes J found in his safe in the hotel. Since Entry 33, we've been seeing footage from the tapes, footage that fills in the seven-month gap since Entry 26. There have been longer narrative threads, with several consecutive entries forming a single narrative thread. There's more dialogue, the story is more developed, characters more developed, and a lot more to discuss and speculate about.

Season one was primarily all about these mysterious, perhaps paranormal characters lurking and creeping about, and main characters visiting abandoned and mysterious locations. Season two is more character-driven, with the Operator having not so pronounced a presence.

Both seasons have their share of creeps and scares, but the scares in both seasons are of different natures. Season two was about the enigma that is the Operator (and Timasky, to an extent). Season two is about human characters trying to figure things out, and one apparently having an agenda of his own. There is still a mystery, but it's focused on the human characters, with the enigmatic characters in the background.

Don't know if anything I typed made any sense, but whatever.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:18 pm
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dinorobo
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inb4 Season 3 is the best season ever.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:34 pm
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