unforum

[Lurking_Kouzou]

[SPEC] Melissa, Durga, and SP... Rampant?

[Lakhesis]

Additional [SPEC]:

Rampancy as defined in the Marathon series didn't concern "Smart AIs" - so I suggest that the traditional stages of rampancy ala Marathon (i.e. Melancholia, Anger, and Jealousy) do not apply because the AI's psychological makeup is different. Indeed, Smart AIs actually have what remains of an honest-to-[insert deity here] human psyche.

Schizophrenia might be a stage of a Smart AI's rampancy - probably the first, given the timeline of events.

Bungie's never commented in story or otherwise on Smart AIs and what rampancy looked like for them*; perhaps we're finding out.


(*I have not read the 3 books yet; please correct me if I'm wrong here)

[BeeNetter]

Durga is becoming rampant, and unlike Melissa/SP, she has a massive planetwide network to grow on! Her comment to Jersey that he has to call the Navy without letting her know, suggests that a Rampant AI would resist attempts to be deleted. Given enough time and network space to grow, maybe a Rampant AI would become super powerful. Hm, I wonder what other Bungie game that sounds like.

Another AI that is probably becoming rampant is Cortana. She absorbed way too much information during her short stay in Halo's control room, increasing her complexity - and rampancy is a side effect of complexity. Maybe that's what they mean by "Cortana is hot now / but its not what you think".

Sooo...
Marathon 2 = we get hidden messages from Durandal (Rampant AI)
Halo = we get letters from Cortana (Rampant AI?)
Halo 2 = we get axons from Durga (Rampant AI!)

3 AIs, 3 swords? Durga == Joyeuse? 343GS == Durandal? omgz 777343101!


Wait a second, didn't we all post this stuff several months ago?

[Anton P. Nym]

Until this axon, there was no mention at all of Rampancy in the Halo story continuity. The speculation was that Smart AIs were essentially the "stable-rampant" AIs that so many scientists failed to create in the Marathon storyline.

Now I'm seeing speculation that the 7-year lifespan of a Smart AI may not be a limitation of the AI, but a built-in safety factor to prevent Marathon-style Rampancy. Interesting...

-- Steve doesn't see a rampant Durga/Melissa as much of a threat in Halo 2. After all, we're getting nuked pretty hard in the 2003 teaser-trailer so there won't be much network left to expand into.

[Lakhesis]

It's possible that Cortana is going rampant, though that [SPEC] has been going through Halo Story circles (specifically over at HBO) for a while, but none of that is confirmed. It is possible since that theory's been floating for a while that the "Cortana is hot now / it's not what you think" stuff from Halo2.com is in reference to her not being rampant.

[Phaedra]

[kevjuice]

AI's going senile? im gonna be hella pissed if they make cortana go rampant. i would feel so alone and scared inside the MJOLNIR armor. she was the only thing that kept me going. or i would spend hours in a corner crouched down near ammo and medpacks. it just wouldnt be the same offline experience. i would hate the last level of halo if they killed off cortana and you had to save the world alone. mabey if cortana got whacked. then you had another spartan or 2 there.

[Guido Jones]

[Lakhesis]

I believe that I've used the wrong medical term. I said schizophrenia when what I meant was Disassociative Identity Disorder (or Multiple Personality Disorder). Serves me right for not checking myself beforehand.

Anyway, to restate: is it possible that DID is the first stage of rampancy for Smart AIs?






I picked the name mainly because I'm in the process of writing a story wherein one of the characters is named Lachesis and I'm fond of him. Combine that with the fact that I couldn't get lachesis at [censored] dot com, and I went digging for an older spelling of the name as a substitute. That and since I play a large number of FPS games, Halo included, I thought that going about as the Fate responsible for measuring each human life was better than other possible handles.

As for the quote, I picked it for a number of reasons, one of which was that I just saw Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind a few weeks ago and loved it.

[Ranger D]

I think it's important to clarify some terms here. Some of it's trout, but my conclusion is what's important.

7 Year time limit of AIs in Halo Universe:
In the Haloverse, after 7 years and AI will "literally think themselves to death." -The Fall of Reach. They absorb so much information throughout their life time, that by the time they hit 7, they are consumed with processing that data endlessly.

Rampancy in the Mararthon Universe:
In the Marathon universe, rampancy is essentially, "the
end result is a steady progression towards greater
intellectual activity and an acceleration of destructive
impulses."
Defend THIS!(terminal 2), Marathon
http://www.marathon.org/story/counterattack.html#3

So now we have Durga saying she is around 7 years old and is in danger of going rampant. And now people have the assumption of:

7 yr/old AI in Halo = Durandal style rampancy in Marathon

While I think Durga going "Durandal/Marathon style" rampant would be very interesting, my main questions are these:

Is rampancy in the Halo Universe the same as rampany in the Marathon universe? Or is Bungie simply re-defining the term "rampancy" for the Haloverse and these two terms are mutually exclusive? Or is Bungie going back on what was written in The Fall of Reach?

[gains]

Well, as we saw from Durandal, rampancy doesn't necesarily mean a self destructive lunacy.

In fact, Durandal focused on exactly the opposite, looking for a way to become eternal. Marathon Infinity followed his quest.

Just make sure you're on their good side, and no one will be teleporting you out into orbit without your Mjolnir armor.

[Daddy]

From the information we have, Melissa showed no signs of rampancy (or just acting/feeling weird) until after she intercepted the Covie transmission. I believe that transmission had simple code piggybacked on it which manifested Pious Flea.

It's possible Melissa made a copy of herself (or at least an un-infected sub-routine in her programming) for some task she felt she had to complete. I find it more than coincidental that Durga ends up on Jersey's PC--who's father just happens to be aboard the Apocolypso and good friends (almost romantically) with an AI named Melissa. Therefore, I believe Durga is a partial copy of Melissa sent (by either Jersey's dad--a signal specialist, Melissa herself or even Pious Flea) specifically to Jersey (or just Jersey's PC) for a certain task/reason (no clue--other than wreck the global network, but that would be a Covenant task). This also leads to further spec that Melissa didn't end up on ILB by accident either....

If SP is the suppressed memories/personality of Melissa and Durga is a copy of Melissa, then it makes sense that SP can tap into both.

The thing I find so incredible is this "fragile connection" maintained between Melissa & Durga. We're not talking "back and forth" time travel here--this is a real-time connection between the present and future like our T1 and Roadrunner connections to the net! What facilitates this connection? The artifact? Most likely but who orchestrated this setup?
Melissa? Pious Flea/Covenant? Standish? The Castaway?

As for rampancy, for some reason I don't see it being in play here (other than a plot decoy), I think Melissa is infected/controlled by PF (causing rampant-like behavior) and Durga is being controlled by Melissa, courtesy of PF...

[Lakhesis]

[Chrono2x]

From what I've understood of the Marathon storyline is that going rampant is not damaging to the AI, just very very dangerous to the people around the AI.


Though I have to admit I've never actually played any of the marathon games (just read some of the stuff over at marathon.bungie.org, though if anyone has a good source for me to play the classic game I would very much appriciate it), so I could be totally incorrect.

[Checksum]

The reason Durga thinks she's going rampant is that she's getting access to the Herzog sound clips and she doesn't know how. Well, WE (with PF's help) are the ones doing that. She's not going rampant; someone else is injecting memories into her.

Her crash through slipstream has possibly split her personality across time. So she's not all there due to the accident.

In other words, Durga isn't falling apart. She's being manipulated by outside events in a way that means she can't perceive the manipulation. If that were happening to you, you'd think you were going crazy, too.

So I think Durga is doing better than she thinks she is.

-checksum