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[TheBiggestSean]

Re: [POLL] Whose side are we on?

[johnny5]

Shad0,
I'm now beginning to drift from our shared spec.
Consider this scenario:
The Covenant deploy a "Trojan Horse" artifact into space, then send a Trojan Horse virus through their communications who's purpose is to make sure the device is activated.

[AngriBuddhist]

Ok, everyone just skipped right over my post or thought it was ridiculous so I'll rephrase it as a question.

The PF can send digital data to Durga in the future and SP has access to Melissa's transmission system. Is there any reason that Dana shouldn't try to convince SP to, for the safety of Margaret, !transmit the hell out of there?

Regardless, I have sent off the idea.

[firefox]

okie dokie...

the SP is a bit like a chameleon neh? she takes on the personalities of others, shes a curious girl, bit like durga, bit like yasmine, bit like dana, but maybe its all just an act..

now all along, ive felt that melissa was given to us as the obvious- dont trust her she's whack... and from the start it was obvious choose SP or choose OP, with everyone willing to pitch in to help the princess.

i dont think she is trustworthy honestly. she doesnt show the qualities of a stable mind, theres something there, you cant quite put your finger on it, but its on the edge, you dont wanna make her angry.

so lets just say we agree to get rid of her. we could make it look like shes gone- or actually trick her into deletion/assimilation.

someone- in fact probably many people, have notice that the flea keeps trying to attach, (like he did to melissa), and this is like they key to assimilation and most probably the destruction of what we know as the SP.

i for one want her to look in the mirror and tell us what she sees as her reflection. just curious, if it wont be the queen, or maybe the clockwork version of perdita... or something else all together, it seems she herself doesnt know what she is.. best wait and see tho.

regardless i cast my vote for melissa, we need to help dana.
(unless dana is just a trick from the op to catch the rogue process all along omg and she isnt real- as we have no concrete evidence of that yet, and all along the whole reason for this arg was to capture sp which is the key to earths survival.... nah j/k )

melissa all the way!

edit: wait what am i thinking, support cafe press, ilb g-strings boo yeah!

[ABoxInABox]

Dana wants to play hide and seek. Does Yasmine want to play as well?

[Starblade]

I voted for the future of humanity, only because there was no 'support Herzhoq/Rani' there.

[Tien_Le]

that whole poll thing

[Shad0]

Re: [POLL] Whose side are we on?

[Kagehi Kossori]

Sigh.. As of this post, most of the votes are going to helping Dana delete the flea.. This is just bloody stupid. *If* Melissa considered the flea to be a rouge, then that would work, the problem is she does not and likely would immediately react to its deletion, if even possible, as another attack against her. What the heck do you really think this is going to accomplish. Melissa's actions are influenced by the flea, but indepentant of him. Deletion will not change Melissa's intent, will not reset her programming and ironically will kill the only process that can help us let all three interact indirectly.

Deleting SP is likely to be really stupid as well. We know from recent sound files that SP's actions can echo across to Durga. Is this the flea transmitting those things too her? I doubt it, I doubt it a lot. Why? Because the flea doesn't know what is going on in SP's head, only what she specifically tells him. Therefor, the only possible way Durga could have 'ever' experienced dreams of SP's actions is if on some level they are strongly connected to each other. They have to be connected on a level close enough for Durga to 'remember' having done the things that SP did, but interpret them as dreams. This differs from Durga's rection to Melissa's interference only in that Melissa's actions leave time gaps, where Durga has not even the dream of doing something, just a gap in time where she did something else. There is absolutely no reason to believe a) that SP is anything but another part of the full AI and b) no reason to believe that her deletion would not have unexpected and serious consequences to both Melissa and Durga. The only reasonable solution I can see is to get SP out of Melissa's hair (thus appearing to fulfill the task), while protecting her. The idea of getting her into the future, along with Durga, is the only reasonable solution. Any other option eliminates not just sources of information for us, but swings the balance in ways that have unpredictable and potentially disasterous outcomes.

As for the idea that SP is the covenant... There are two problems with that. The first being what I already mentioned, that Durga cannot experience things so completely, unless she was experiencing them directly from SP. The flea just couldn't provide that experience, since he is not attached to SP. The second problem is, what if anything has she done? Covenant systems would be actively trying to interfere with other processes, they would be trying to manipulate events, they would be trying to achieve a goal. SP's only actions have been to play a bit of hide and seek with Melissa and give us bits and pieces of information. Durga didn't know who she was either, should we be surprised that SP, who dispite her child like nature, seems to be about 100 times more stable than Melissa or Durga would react in a more balanced fashion? And what precisely do you expect her reaction to be? What reaction would you have accepted as reasonable?

Personally, I think that regardless of who or what any of the other entities are, Melissa is too irratic, unstable and dangerous. She has no moral sense, no conscious and no clue what is really going on, with herself or anything else. Supporting her is like supporting a sociopath. You have no clue what they will do the next time something inconveniences them, but you can be reasonably sure it won't be the decision someone who has any compassion would do. Do we really want to do something as radical as deleting SP to help something whose logic is so twisted she would kill everyone to protect herself first? What would she do if confronted with a situation where her own survival or that of her 'crew' meant destroying entire cities? Do you think she would hesitate? If not, then why are we trusting her to do the right thing with respect to everything else that is going on, let alone believing that we can even try to change her actions?

No, we need to help Dana, if possible, but helping Melissa eliminate what 'might' give Durga the edge and stablity needed to fight back is a bad idea. It might not do any good, but taking out SP, for what ever reason, limits our options and the possibilities by a huge amount.

[Astald]

I agree with most of your post Kagehi. It also brings up another idea. You said that you wonder what Melissa's responce would be if she were put into a situation where she had to choose between her crew and the destruction of entire cities. We all know that Melissa will do anything to protect her crew. So what if we convinced her that her present actions are detrimental to her crew. If we told her that Dana, Margaret, the SP, the Flea, Durga, and whoever else are helpful to our cause. And that the Artifact, whatever it may be, is of utmost importance to us to understand it's design. That if severing our connection to any of these things would majorly impact her crew for the worse. I think she would have to listen.

[Kagehi Kossori]

Hmm. That is a possibility. But then you end up trying to justify Melissa not hurting Dana again, since currently Melissa only considered Dana useful as a tool to eliminate SP. We have gotten ourselves in a mess, I don't see a way out that doesn't involve convincing Melissa that we did what she asked somehow, without actually doing so.

Of course, we could always try overloading Melissa. What would her response be if her entire crew betrayed her by helping the rouge process? It might be enough to leave her vulnerable long enough to let Either Durga or SP take over the dominant role instead. Or it might fail completely. I put our odds of doing that only 'slightly' higher than successfully controlling her actions in the wider scope of things. We are dealing with a half rabid dog here, which may lead us to our goal or just as easilly turn on use and go for the throat, while not recognizing what she is doing or why it is wrong. The best we have been able to do is nudge her in a particular direction and even that we haven't been able to do all that well.

[Ekim]

liek omggzzorz!1! u kan totaly get danna to answer a live call and maek her part of teh creW!! thne she woodnt frag her ant!! im so rite. [/OMGWTFBBQ]

I'm leaning towards convincing the Princess to allow the Flea to !attach to her, and hopefully merge her and Melissa.

See my post here.

[TheBiggestSean]

Re: [POLL] Whose side are we on?

[perrault]

Gotta love "unbiased" votes. But yes, a vote in general is something of a good idea, but as I've stated before, and Shad0 has stated earlier in this thread, it will not really matter in the long run. No one here really makes decisions with the majority in mind, only with their own opinions. We've seen it before, and we'll see it again. We cannot make decisions together. And so while the vote is a good idea, it's sort of unnecessary or unproductive in this situation.

For my two cents, I have voted for supporting Melissa. If we're going to take on the parts of crew members, it may be best if we continue through with that role. We've all heard at this point what the sentence for treason is. And I wouldn't want to make Melissa angry either. And as I've pointed out in an email to Dana, really the quickest and most efficient means for getting Melissa off of Dana and Margarets' backs would be to help her complete her mission.

[Starblade]