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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » Old News & Rumors
[TRAILHEAD] Ridley Scott's Prometheus Viral...
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BitGamer
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Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 84

JustThinking wrote:
Is Alchemy about as scientific as Astrology though? Would a real scientist have any interest in it?


Yeah, alchemy is the basis of scientific chemistry. Consider it like basic laboratory chemistry, mixed with spiritual/magical/religious principles. The study of alchemy did further the understanding of gunpowder and distillation, and develop a basic "periodic table."

For example, everybody knows one of the goals of alchemy was to turn lead into gold. Now, alchemists certainly used devices that a modern chemist would recognize (burners, vials, distillation equipment and such), but they believed that scientific achievements could be reached by employing magic, for lack of a better term. Well, today, conceivably, one could create gold through atomic manipulation - actually shaping or forming gold atoms from the appropriate constituent parts. But you'd need something like a particle accelerator or nuclear reactor to break down atoms. You know, equipment that could only be built/maintained by extraordinarily wealthy organizations. Like a government. Or a multi-national corporation.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:03 pm
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darkeyedone13
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Joined: 25 Mar 2012
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index wrote:
FilmEdge wrote:
As many pointed out before and after my comments: Peter is acting as a benefactor to humanity, but is probably doing so as a by-product of his own personal, selfish motives.


My own pet theory is that everything needed to comprehend Weyland's motives can be found in the materials index on the Investor's page:



Eitr, Lead, most conspicuously, Carmot, these are all identified historically as properties utilized in Alchemy.

Alchemy is not a social endeavor; its about as personal as personal gets.

I think all the achievements in the Timeline are trickle-down by-products. Weyland is after Immortality, the ultimate manifestation of Greatness, which he himself states he's stop at nothing to achieve in the TED speech.

Someone else has probably already mentioned this... But Tantalum is named for Tantalus... Who was punished eternally in Tartarus alongside Prometheus. (His punishment was to stand by a fruit tree and lake and always thirst and hunger, because whenever he reached for fruit or water, the branches and lake would recede, being forever out of reach. He is actually where we get the word "tantalize" from. He was also the source of the curse on the House of Atreides.)
The connection to Tartarus and thus Prometheus stands out to me.
Also... on the alchemy theory... Orichalcum is a metal mentioned in relation to Atlantis...

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:05 pm
Last edited by darkeyedone13 on Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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FilmEdge
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Re: LV-426
Planetoid (moon)

SevenSonicStructures wrote:


This is terrible news for the Prometheus crew then, since it's sort of implying they never got out of the planet to send information regarding the alien technology, or at least a visual recognition of the space jockey ship.


I'm not sure why you're assuming that. If the moon in PROMETHEUS is not LV-426, this is an entirely separate event — indeed, the first contact with the Space Jockey race (and their ship).

Let's say this first contact goes poorly for humans in one way or another at the end of this film. Some of the crew survive, or they don't. Either way, I'd think humanity, as a space-faring species, would be on the lookout for any other signs of the SJ race — either to avoid contact for safety, or as a warning of threat to defend itself better.

What if the find on LV-426 is the second encounter with them, but the SJ's were found long-dead in their ship ("fossilized" is how Dallas described them). That find elsewhere would imply no certain outcome from a first contact in the PROMETHEUS era on a different moon.

I happen to think (so far) that the outcome WILL be bad for the humans in PROMETHEUS. But I'm just speculating that, to connect ALIEN to this 'prequel' loosely, that bad ending was in fact only the beginning — but not a de facto cause and effect between the two events. I could be all wrong, we'll see.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:07 pm
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SevenSonicStructures
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Re: LV-426
Planetoid (moon)

FilmEdge wrote:

I'm not sure why you're assuming that. If the moon in PROMETHEUS is not LV-426, this is an entirely separate event — indeed, the first contact with the Space Jockey race (and their ship).


Well, I forgot Ash didn't get to see the ship nor the Space Jockey, he only had contact with the xenomorph which won't be in Prometheus, so it could be assumed that it's his first contact with it as the evidence suggests.

To be fair there's a lot of things that happened between Alien and Aliens, and we always had the perspective of Ripley. Only in Aliens we got to see a bit of Earth and it was always indoors, so we don't know what kind of things Weyland-Yutani is up to. The second encounter with an SJ would happen closely after the first (a few years difference), and from there I'm sure there will be many others.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:26 pm
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powereddie
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Joined: 27 Mar 2012
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I think I know what the rest of the clues are... Traditionaly "X" marks the spot,... so maybe the x΄es in Ax (Adamantine), Zx (Rare Earths) and Tx (Tridium) are the place to crack our brains into. Following this logic I started to see what can I make of the Rare Elements info. I found the following: the combined atomic number is 345, which is the ONLY sum you arrive at if you add the last 5 rare elements: 67+68+69+70+71. I tried to access using the symbols of said elements. It could be a combination of the atomic numbers or symbols, but the permutations are too many, I tried a few.

*Here΄s the thing: Yttrium (Y, 39) is also considered to be a rare earth and is mentioned separately in the resource list. And the same goes for the element (Sc, 21) Scandium.

So, if whoever is making the puzzles is not that lazy (assuming this is the right solution) and is doing it the right way, then the atomic numbers to be used to reach the sum 345 should be from 57 to 71, plus 21 (Scandium) and 39 (Yttrium). 17 integers to try and find a combination that leads to 345.... and then maybe those integers can tell us which elements or combinations to use in PP

I tried to use the Solver add-in from Excel, but somehow I cannot make it work...

Can someone check this? What do you think?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:29 pm
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SevenSonicStructures
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x + y + 21 + 39 = 345
x + y = 345 - 21 - 39
x + y = 285
x = 285 - y


Then... Forget it, I'm too rusty with math. The only interesting thing I found was that Water (in the resources tab) has the same chemical symbol as Holmium (Ho) which is a Rare Earth, but in the tab it says its atomic number or whatever that part is (since doesn't say) it's 000. The real atomic number of Holmium is 67, so maybe that could be used in the equation to figure out which one is the other secret element?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:51 pm
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CapnZ
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Trout if need be, is it possible that the SJ ship in Prometheus makes it off the planet then crashes into the planet from Alien?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:02 pm
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FilmEdge
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Btw, the alchemy angle is very interesting, though I know next to nothing on the subject.

But from the WI Timeline, we certainly can deduce that Peter and his techs are making the most of future chemical/mineral discoveries and uses. Presumably, like today with our high-tech demands for natural (rare) resources, once WI makes these medical & technical discoveries, demand would then drive the company to seek more of these resources than exist here on Earth.

I'm not entirely convinced this is alchemy in the strict sense of the word, but perhaps more likely the next step in "plundering rain forests for resources" to make medicine or mining for high-tech metals — only looking beyond Earth to resource-rich asteroids, moons and planets. Peter Weyland may not be turning lead into gold (or water into wine), but he's certainly turning raw materials into cancer-killing meds, bio-research and tech creation that fulfills his dreams to find ... whatever... among the stars.

And presuming this is a common developmental trait in advanced species, we won't be the only ones out there plundering resources. Though Peter's goals may ultimately be loftier than mining the galaxy, such base realities may well lead us to a dangerous discovery... or competitor.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:03 pm
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FilmEdge
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CapnZ wrote:
Trout if need be, is it possible that the SJ ship in Prometheus makes it off the planet then crashes into the planet from Alien?


I don't think we can rule it out yet, based on the evidence we have. Though it does appear that the SJ ship comes back down — perhaps rather hard — on the moon in question here. Then again, trailer editing can be SOOOOO misleading, often deliberately so.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:05 pm
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darkeyedone13
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Joined: 25 Mar 2012
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powereddie wrote:

*Here΄s the thing: Yttrium (Y, 39) is also considered to be a rare earth and is mentioned separately in the resource list. And the same goes for the element (Sc, 21) Scandium.

I think I'm going insane, but I can't find Scandium on the resource list... Confused

Here's the list of Rare Earth Metals for reference:
Cerium – 58 – Ce
Dysprosium – 66 – Dy
Erbium – 68 – Er
Europium – 63 – Eu
Gadolinium – 64 – Gd
Holmium – 67 – Ho
Lanthanum – 57 – La
Lutetium – 71 – Lu
Neodymium – 60 – Nd
Praseodymium – 59 – Pr
Promethium – 61 – Pm
Samarium – 62 – Sm
Scandium – 21 – Sc
Terbium – 65 – Tb
Thulium – 69 – Tm
Ytterbium – 70 – Yb
Yttrium – 39 – Y

Rare Earths is listed as 345 with the symbol Zx on the Weyland site.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:32 pm
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powereddie
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Joined: 27 Mar 2012
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SevenSonicStructures wrote:
x + y + 21 + 39 = 345
x + y = 345 - 21 - 39
x + y = 285
x = 285 - y


Then... Forget it, I'm too rusty with math. The only interesting thing I found was that Water (in the resources tab) has the same chemical symbol as Holmium (Ho) which is a Rare Earth, but in the tab it says its atomic number or whatever that part is (since doesn't say) it's 000. The real atomic number of Holmium is 67, so maybe that could be used in the equation to figure out which one is the other secret element?


What I meant is that you need the 17 integers (21, 39, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71) to find the combination that leads to the sum of 345. With the addition of 21 and 39, maybe there are other possibilities than 67+68+69+70+71 using only from 57 to 71. I also noticed the Ho,... and since Holmium and Yttrium are the only real rare earths mentioned on the resource list, that could mean that these are the ones you select from the rare earths to find the secret: "Ho, Y" or "3 9 6 7", (combination of the symbols, letters, atomic numbers, or plain scrambled numbers).

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:46 pm
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powereddie
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Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 4

darkeyedone13 wrote:
powereddie wrote:

*Here΄s the thing: Yttrium (Y, 39) is also considered to be a rare earth and is mentioned separately in the resource list. And the same goes for the element (Sc, 21) Scandium.

I think I'm going insane, but I can't find Scandium on the resource list... Confused

Here's the list of Rare Earth Metals for reference:
Cerium – 58 – Ce
Dysprosium – 66 – Dy
Erbium – 68 – Er
Europium – 63 – Eu
Gadolinium – 64 – Gd
Holmium – 67 – Ho
Lanthanum – 57 – La
Lutetium – 71 – Lu
Neodymium – 60 – Nd
Praseodymium – 59 – Pr
Promethium – 61 – Pm
Samarium – 62 – Sm
Scandium – 21 – Sc
Terbium – 65 – Tb
Thulium – 69 – Tm
Ytterbium – 70 – Yb
Yttrium – 39 – Y

Rare Earths is listed as 345 with the symbol Zx on the Weyland site.


Sc (Scandium) is also a rare earth, but is not in the resource list, sorry for the confusion...

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:47 pm
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JustThinking
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Joined: 23 Mar 2012
Posts: 107

BitGamer wrote:
JustThinking wrote:
Is Alchemy about as scientific as Astrology though? Would a real scientist have any interest in it?


Yeah, alchemy is the basis of scientific chemistry. Consider it like basic laboratory chemistry, mixed with spiritual/magical/religious principles. The study of alchemy did further the understanding of gunpowder and distillation, and develop a basic "periodic table."

For example, everybody knows one of the goals of alchemy was to turn lead into gold. Now, alchemists certainly used devices that a modern chemist would recognize (burners, vials, distillation equipment and such), but they believed that scientific achievements could be reached by employing magic, for lack of a better term. Well, today, conceivably, one could create gold through atomic manipulation - actually shaping or forming gold atoms from the appropriate constituent parts. But you'd need something like a particle accelerator or nuclear reactor to break down atoms. You know, equipment that could only be built/maintained by extraordinarily wealthy organizations. Like a government. Or a multi-national corporation.


Alchemy may have gotten some results through practical experimentation-but the theory behind it was really nonsense I think. If the story says Weyland was advancing science by finding the mythical Norse substance Eitr and the again mythical Carmot that was supposed to make up the Philosopher's Stone, then it is heading dangerously into Harry Potter/Nicolas Flamel territory.

The only way it wouldn't be very silly I guess, would be if the original stories came from the alien visitors that left the star maps. Then you could say layers of myth were built up around them, but that there are substances that can do seemingly "magical" things out there. I would assume they would have a scientific basis in that case, that could fit into modern understanding.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:22 pm
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Tanmansmom
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Joined: 20 Mar 2012
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Doesn't it seem strange that the primary resource key is completely lacking in the elements that make up most of the world as we know it? All from most-to-least: five most common elements in Earth are iron, oxygen, silicon, magnesium and sulfur; atmospheric elements are nitrogen, oxygen, argon, carbon and hydrogen; human body elements are oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen and calcium.

Are these, for some reason, no longer considered key resources? Are they in such short supply that the company doesn't want to list them? Are they in short supply because WI is using them up to build Davids? Or am I just grasping at straws? Shocked

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:43 pm
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ChrisPachi
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Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 26
Location: Melbourne, OZ

Tanmansmom wrote:
Doesn't it seem strange that the primary resource key is completely lacking in the elements that make up most of the world as we know it? All from most-to-least: five most common elements in Earth are iron, oxygen, silicon, magnesium and sulfur; atmospheric elements are nitrogen, oxygen, argon, carbon and hydrogen; human body elements are oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen and calcium.

Are these, for some reason, no longer considered key resources? Are they in such short supply that the company doesn't want to list them? Are they in short supply because WI is using them up to build Davids? Or am I just grasping at straws? Shocked


This is exactly why I suspect that the resources table is some kind of cipher/numerical sequence. The resources listed are weird because perhaps they needed a specific set of numbers. They chose the resources listed for their atomic numerals, not their relevance, and where they couldn't they either made resources up or deliberately give them the wrong numbers.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:27 am
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