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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Slender Man Mythos
Slenderman stories with gay protagonists?
Moderators: ChildOfAtom, Cougar Draven, DavFlamerock, Dixie_Wolf, ndemeter
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Cougar DravenModerator
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12th wrote:
TopherRPGnet wrote:
I think it's great that some people in some places can afford to say "it doesn't matter," but until everyone has that luxury I'm going to keep pushing for visibility. Because visibility is stage one on the way to acceptance.


This.

Saying "it doesn't matter" (while narratively a reasonable decision) is a pretty loaded thing to say. It has baggage of being a standard backlash against representation of LGBTEtc by suggesting that the desired equality of represention has already been attained, and so further advocacy is irrelevant. It's a common sneak-attack on equality, although more commonly used to attack ongoing reforms with relation to feminism and racial/religous equality.

I'm not actually suggesting that people are doing this consciously, but I think it is important that any media allow for diversity of representation and avoid becoming solely identified with characters pulled from a narrow demographic of society.

EDIT: I mean, if we're talking about even basic diversity, we have a distinct derth of female creators and main characters (of any orientation) in the Slender *log community. I'm fairly certain you could add them up on two hands and still have fingers left. Also, nice post CoA.


See, redefining "it doesn't matter" and adding on the whole "the diversity is where I/you/we/they want it" thing is beside the point.

When I, a bisexual person, say that "it doesn't matter", what I am saying is "this character's orientation is not crucial to their existence and so I see no need to browbeat it into everyone's face".

Is that really so hard to understand?
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:35 pm
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12th
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Cougar Draven wrote:
When I, a bisexual person, say that "it doesn't matter", what I am saying is "this character's orientation is not crucial to their existence and so I see no need to browbeat it into everyone's face".

Is that really so hard to understand?


I can dig it.

I'm not saying anyone is Wrong on the Internet. Just putting some stuff out there. *shrug*
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:45 pm
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Cougar DravenModerator
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12th wrote:
Cougar Draven wrote:
When I, a bisexual person, say that "it doesn't matter", what I am saying is "this character's orientation is not crucial to their existence and so I see no need to browbeat it into everyone's face".

Is that really so hard to understand?


I can dig it.

I'm not saying anyone is Wrong on the Internet. Just putting some stuff out there. *shrug*


Didn't think you were, just clarifying my position.
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:46 pm
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Josh Rallus
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Cougar Draven wrote:
12th wrote:
TopherRPGnet wrote:
I think it's great that some people in some places can afford to say "it doesn't matter," but until everyone has that luxury I'm going to keep pushing for visibility. Because visibility is stage one on the way to acceptance.


This.

Saying "it doesn't matter" (while narratively a reasonable decision) is a pretty loaded thing to say. It has baggage of being a standard backlash against representation of LGBTEtc by suggesting that the desired equality of represention has already been attained, and so further advocacy is irrelevant. It's a common sneak-attack on equality, although more commonly used to attack ongoing reforms with relation to feminism and racial/religous equality.

I'm not actually suggesting that people are doing this consciously, but I think it is important that any media allow for diversity of representation and avoid becoming solely identified with characters pulled from a narrow demographic of society.

EDIT: I mean, if we're talking about even basic diversity, we have a distinct derth of female creators and main characters (of any orientation) in the Slender *log community. I'm fairly certain you could add them up on two hands and still have fingers left. Also, nice post CoA.


See, redefining "it doesn't matter" and adding on the whole "the diversity is where I/you/we/they want it" thing is beside the point.

When I, a bisexual person, say that "it doesn't matter", what I am saying is "this character's orientation is not crucial to their existence and so I see no need to browbeat it into everyone's face".

Is that really so hard to understand?

It's not, bro. Unless the story is one of those Silent Hill type "My sexuality is trying to kill me" deals, it really doesn't have much to do with anything.
Diversity is wonderful, but someone's personal orientation should have nothing to do with whether or not a series is considered.
It doesn't matter in a horror narrative, it really doesn't. What matters is creating a compelling narrative with believable characters whether they're white, black, gay, straight, whatever. They should not be something just for the sake of having diversity, they should be diverse because that's what they are. As a writer, you have full reign over how characters are portrayed, but never should your initial thought be "Oh, I don't have enough blacks, I don't have enough gays." That's just stupid. Come up with characters and let them develop naturally, if you're writing them and they end up homosexual, that is awesome, but you shouldn't throw sexuality around as a tool for sociopolitical reform, it belongs under human rights. It brings focus to something and attaches connotations to it that are not necessary in the least. Consider all people as human beings and leave perception of their innate qualities to the wayside, they shouldn't affect how you perceive their humanity or importance.

tl;dr Forced diversity is silliness, and it prolongs social bias. Be natural, diversity is a natural occurrence, don't try and force it.

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:52 pm
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Scottums
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Joined: 21 Mar 2012
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Visibility is important. Seeing yourself in your favorite movie/tv show/slender*log can have huge meaning to people.

However, there is always the risk of making A STATEMENT with your material instead of making a good story. It's a delicate balance between making a minority character visible but not so much that you can't see anything else. And of course, the story is all important. If the story does not call for sexual orientation to be addressed in some way, forcing it in would be awkward.

Like ChildOfAtom suggested, it would be an interesting to see if a gay character (or other cultural sub-gruops) would react differently to Ol' Slendy than the standard while male high school/college student. That would be an interesting challenge.

Also, a gay Proxy would look so fabulous. Very Happy

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 6:33 pm
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ChildOfAtomModerator
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Josh Rallus wrote:
someone's personal orientation should have nothing to do with whether or not a series is considered.


Maybe it shouldn't... but it does. Again, people like to see themselves reflected in the media that they consume.

This exact debate has been going on in comics for decades, and representation is FAR better than it used to be, but you don't think I don't still get a little thrill everytime Northstar or Anole or Wiccan or Hulkling or Shatterstar and Rictor show up? You don't think after reading thousands of pages of fantasy novels about hot sorceresses with giant racks and slave princesses I didn't get excited when I finally found Mercedes Lackey's Vanyel novels?

I don't think anyone is asking for "Ohmigawd! that faceless Slenderboi on Grindr is so HOT! I wanna do X with him and feel his tentacles in in my 2xist boxers while we watch "Smash!" together!" (though now that I write it...) but someone might get excited to find a gay character in a series.

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 7:02 pm
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Scottums
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Joined: 21 Mar 2012
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ChildOfAtom wrote:

I don't think anyone is asking for "Ohmigawd! that faceless Slenderboi on Grindr is so HOT! I wanna do X with him and feel his tentacles in in my 2xist boxers while we watch "Smash!" together!" (though now that I write it...)


Slenderslash. Gotta happen. Very Happy

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 7:07 pm
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Taluria
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Joined: 19 Apr 2007
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Actually, at least in blogs, there are plenty of female creators and characters. I'm actually half of the creative background of a blog that has characters dealing with bisexuality, pansexuality, gender-identity, and so on. And working on another blog (which is on hiatus at the moment), featuring a lesbian couple. I also know of at least one blog with a male homosexual couple, which is sadly over at this point. I think it's just easier to get into that sort of thing with a blog.

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 7:33 pm
Last edited by Taluria on Thu May 03, 2012 8:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Cougar DravenModerator
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ChildOfAtom wrote:
Josh Rallus wrote:
someone's personal orientation should have nothing to do with whether or not a series is considered.


Maybe it shouldn't... but it does. Again, people like to see themselves reflected in the media that they consume.

This exact debate has been going on in comics for decades, and representation is FAR better than it used to be, but you don't think I don't still get a little thrill everytime Northstar or Anole or Wiccan or Hulkling or Shatterstar and Rictor show up? You don't think after reading thousands of pages of fantasy novels about hot sorceresses with giant racks and slave princesses I didn't get excited when I finally found Mercedes Lackey's Vanyel novels?

I don't think anyone is asking for "Ohmigawd! that faceless Slenderboi on Grindr is so HOT! I wanna do X with him and feel his tentacles in in my 2xist boxers while we watch "Smash!" together!" (though now that I write it...) but someone might get excited to find a gay character in a series.


Shatterstar makes me sad. Read Midnighter and Apollo.
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 8:16 pm
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KrisTrauma
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Unless is plot relevant (this character has a boyfriend/girlfriend) it really doesn't matter what his or her sexual orientation is...

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 8:40 pm
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cochinosanchez
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I'm Bi and a minority. Do I win?
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 9:44 pm
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robgmartin
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My $.02 worth

Being an older gay man I have had the same question in the back of my mind as the OP. It hasn't affected what I follow though. I follow vlogs primarily and only follow vlogs that are quality work. I check out Trailheads just to see what is new out there and if it is interesting I follow it no matter if the protagonist is gay or straight. In fact one of my favorite vlogs, TJA Projects, had to females as its main protagonists in it (and, if I remember correctly, were the first in that respect). I absolutely LOVED Tati and Aimee's work. Even though their current projects seem to be on hiatus I still look forward to new work from them. I do not follow them because I am physically attracted to them (and any hetero man out there would have to say that Tati especially has the, ahem, "physical endowments", ahem, that would be....well....for want of better word... attractive to them). I, however, enjoy the work that they do and the thought that they put into it. If I could find a well-made Slendervlog that had a gay protagonist then I'd SURE watch it, critique it, and follow up on the many clues just like I did in TJAP and MNM. I have yet, though to find such a vlog. I do agree though with others that that having a protagonist that has some aspect of your life experience in it makes the viewing just that more immediate.

As for those who have blogs, vlogs and such with LGBT characters or have listed them here I was wondering if links could be provided to them. I would, myself, like to check them out. Heck their might be a gem somewhere in there that I have missed.

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 11:46 pm
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KrisTrauma
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My slenderman actor is gay...does that count?

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 11:54 pm
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ALEXGORDON
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I got the idea that Greg from Dark Harvest was gay or bisexual, however there's no confirmation to support that. He also wasn't ever a main character. Oh well.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:55 am
Last edited by ALEXGORDON on Fri May 04, 2012 7:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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qaqa
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Greg always pinged for me back when he was alive in DH, but I've been wrong many times. Months after the fact I'm pretty sure he's straight.

I think sexuality in a series can go interesting places if you allow the people to be fallible and human. Sex is a part of who we are, and intimacy between the right or wrong people in a horror story can go all sorts of places. I had worked on a New York-based concept for a long time, now defunct (I'm toying with something far more impossible at the moment), featuring twentysomethings which I couldn't do due to budget constraints and lack of performers, and at least two of the characters were not straight - one was a bi female, the other was gay. This was relatively incidental to the horror, except for the fact that a great deal of the subplots and background hinged on some of their professional, familial and romantic entanglements. The gay character was having an affair with a married man who ended up figuring heavily into the larger horror plot, and the girl's flirtation with another protagonist who was in a committed relationship added a layer of resonance to what ultimately happened to some of those people.

This was integral for two reasons - on one level, it was just something I felt needed to be explored in order to make protagonists more human, and it's understandably something you're not going to see depicted with adolescent or most younger college-aged protagonists. But young people, or people in general, have sex and make stupid mistakes because they're into the wrong people. They hurt each other or people they care about because they want something in the moment, whether it's to get laid or whatever else. We all do that, and I thought showing the interconnected messes these people make like anyone else would help us to understand them and relate.

On another level, it was plot. Some of these characters become involved with people who ultimately have a huge impact on the story. And the larger vlog concept itself was actually based in the unthinkable, which was using Slenderman as an otherdimensional force with a sexual violation component. It literally came to rape our women and breed, and its bargain with a specific family many years ago was key to the story. That was something I thought would shock and appall people, and had never been done before.

tl;dr sex and relationships are important to depict, but that's only depending on your story or how you choose to present it. In many vlogs it's really not an issue, and that's fine. Although it must be said EMH has, I feel, admirably begun to depict a similar sort of Rosemary's Baby/gyno-horror angle with the whole Evan/HABIT/monster children thing, both with Steph and with the other stuff with Nick, etc. in the ancillary text.

(also, I had no idea Josh was bi.)
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:18 am
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