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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
[SPEC] Entry #29
Moderators: Giskard, JKatkina, Zarggg
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pravado
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TheBigFinish wrote:
aidansean wrote:
Here's a thought that's just as difficult to reconcile as the rest. Maybe the operator kidnapped Alex in the night. (Alex thought ahead to strap a chestcam on while he slept, and somehow strapped the handycam to his hand with the strap. Whatever.) The operator chases Alex through the woods to the tunnel where Alex sees the bloody shirt, and then the operator standing at the end of the tunnel. This could be the operator's messed up way of telling Alex what he wants him to do. That would sort of explain why Alex is so worked up about Jay not following him that day.


I actually really like this theory, namely for the fact that the Operator is guiding Alex to tell him what he wants done. And judging by Alex's freaked out reaction here (not to mention his "I told you not to follow me" at Bruce and his genuine look of regret when he pulls a gun on Jay & Jessica) I don't think Alex is truly evil. Okay, maybe a LITTLE evil. But I really think he is being forced to do these terrible things to the cast. He doesn't really WANT to, but its better than whatever alternative awaits him should he refuse.


It makes no sense to me

Where would the blood and shirt have come from? How would that symbolize "kill this guy thats going to show up, i can predict the future"

if the operator could predict the future then he wouldn't bother with alex

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:15 pm
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Drnothing1
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 		To be honest, I don't think this entry is canon anymore.

This is one of the first entries in the season. They think the season through first, but don't do the actual writing until a few days prior to filming. they could have either overlooked these details with the killing of Bruce, or they could have planned it differently only to find that the way they planned was too hard and complicated or couldn't be done in the first place.
ie. Shoot Bruce but the gun shot looked CG, couldn't get the blood right, or somthing along those lines.
_________________
What if The Operator is really the ghost of movie critics past trying to prevent Alex from ever making his god-awful movie?

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:12 pm
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Starkley
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 		Alex has to have been to the tunnel more than the times we've seen him there; otherwise, he wouldn't know to seek it out. We never saw the first time he discovered it. Could be that the film is just from an earlier killing that someone (Hoody) stole and put on Jay's laptop. Shazam, no need for discontinuity.

SOMEONE had to have gotten the tripod and so on back together, as well as turning on the TV and so on. Dime to a dollar it was Hoody/Totheark.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:16 pm
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pravado
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Starkley wrote:
Alex has to have been to the tunnel more than the times we've seen him there; otherwise, he wouldn't know to seek it out. We never saw the first time he discovered it. Could be that the film is just from an earlier killing that someone (Hoody) stole and put on Jay's laptop. Shazam, no need for discontinuity.

SOMEONE had to have gotten the tripod and so on back together, as well as turning on the TV and so on. Dime to a dollar it was Hoody/Totheark.


Alex has been there more than once, yes, but that blood was fresh implying it was the same day or the next day. A pool of blood won't stay that wet for that long. You can argue it looks like it was raining and thats why the blood pool was still wet, but the blood on the rock was wet too and the rain can't explain that.

If it was the same day as the murder, alex would have had to double back

We already saw footage from the next day. It's possible he went there before meeting jay and jessica but that would be impossible to explain

So yeah, i'm on board with the whole "non-canon"" theory

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:36 pm
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Starkley
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 		I was saying it could have been from an earlier murder/something completely irrelevant. The shirts looks like they COULD be different (it's hard to make out the collar, the one in #29 looks like a plain t-shirt but Bruce kind of had a polo on? And I can't make out the buttons in #29).

I mean, everything about the continuity is wrong, which is really unlike MH. The rock is in the wrong place (it was VERY clearly in the middle of the tunnel in #49, the camera even focuses on it after the attack to make it obvious, and Alex doesn't seem to move it; in #29 it's off to the right side of the tunnel). No idea how the shirt would have gotten there if it's the same one; it's certainly not there in #49. It too is also for some reason on the right side of the tunnel, and much deeper in than Bruce was. The puddle was also there in Entry #49 so it must just be a place where water collects, which removes rain as a possibility for the blood being still wet. And there's more than one rock in the tunnel; for whatever reason, Alex likes bashing things with rocks.

The only way I could see #29 being canon - because this is kind of a horrible job otherwise...they made almost every detail look off... - is if it was a completely different murder.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:14 pm
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aidansean
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pravado wrote:
TheBigFinish wrote:
aidansean wrote:
Here's a thought that's just as difficult to reconcile as the rest. Maybe the operator kidnapped Alex in the night. (Alex thought ahead to strap a chestcam on while he slept, and somehow strapped the handycam to his hand with the strap. Whatever.) The operator chases Alex through the woods to the tunnel where Alex sees the bloody shirt, and then the operator standing at the end of the tunnel. This could be the operator's messed up way of telling Alex what he wants him to do. That would sort of explain why Alex is so worked up about Jay not following him that day.


I actually really like this theory, namely for the fact that the Operator is guiding Alex to tell him what he wants done. And judging by Alex's freaked out reaction here (not to mention his "I told you not to follow me" at Bruce and his genuine look of regret when he pulls a gun on Jay & Jessica) I don't think Alex is truly evil. Okay, maybe a LITTLE evil. But I really think he is being forced to do these terrible things to the cast. He doesn't really WANT to, but its better than whatever alternative awaits him should he refuse.


It makes no sense to me

Where would the blood and shirt have come from? How would that symbolize "kill this guy thats going to show up, i can predict the future"

if the operator could predict the future then he wouldn't bother with alex


in my defence the first thing I said was "Here's a thought that's just as difficult to reconcile as the rest." Wink

There's no need to invoke "predicting the future" here. Alex can just sit and wait until someone, anyone, arrives. Which is exactly what he does.

How the bloody shirt got there is a different matter, but that's a problem for any theory really. And to be honest, if the operator can teleport living humans around, and even time travel (as evidenced in Entry #23) then why not put a bloody shirt on a rock?

I still think this entry can be canon and that the most likely scenario is that Alex films it after he "wakes up" from his slendertrance and realises what he has done. There's no way Jay filmed this, because if he did he would have had the footage from the handycam and made the effort to sync it up with the chestcam footage.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:20 am
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Starkley
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aidansean wrote:
How the bloody shirt got there is a different matter, but that's a problem for any theory really. And to be honest, if the operator can teleport living humans around, and even time travel (as evidenced in Entry #23) then why not put a bloody shirt on a rock?

I still think this entry can be canon and that the most likely scenario is that Alex films it after he "wakes up" from his slendertrance and realises what he has done. There's no way Jay filmed this, because if he did he would have had the footage from the handycam and made the effort to sync it up with the chestcam footage.


The thing is, the shirt IS there. And if this was Alex waking up from his Slendytrance, it would have had to have been in the same day. So in a span of hours, a bloody shirt appears from nowhere, and the rocks move around. Which #49 specifically shows us doesn't happen.

It would also be horribly inconsistent if The Operator had left it there. "Yeah, I'll wipe your memory, but here's a random clue before I wipe it again." And I don't see any character being able to pull shit back from Slendyoblivion.

I really don't buy that the guys just made a continuity error, because really, how hard is it to remember that there was a bloody shirt on the ground in the entry foreshadowing this event?

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:16 am
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aidansean
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Starkley wrote:
aidansean wrote:
How the bloody shirt got there is a different matter, but that's a problem for any theory really. And to be honest, if the operator can teleport living humans around, and even time travel (as evidenced in Entry #23) then why not put a bloody shirt on a rock?

I still think this entry can be canon and that the most likely scenario is that Alex films it after he "wakes up" from his slendertrance and realises what he has done. There's no way Jay filmed this, because if he did he would have had the footage from the handycam and made the effort to sync it up with the chestcam footage.


The thing is, the shirt IS there. And if this was Alex waking up from his Slendytrance, it would have had to have been in the same day. So in a span of hours, a bloody shirt appears from nowhere, and the rocks move around. Which #49 specifically shows us doesn't happen.

It would also be horribly inconsistent if The Operator had left it there. "Yeah, I'll wipe your memory, but here's a random clue before I wipe it again." And I don't see any character being able to pull shit back from Slendyoblivion.

I really don't buy that the guys just made a continuity error, because really, how hard is it to remember that there was a bloody shirt on the ground in the entry foreshadowing this event?


Okay, just to play devil's advocate a little here... We know that there's something there in Entry #29, but can we be sure it's a shirt? I've watched a few times and it could just be a rag that Alex used to clean himself up a bit before heading back to his car.

For some reason I hadn't noticed the rock moving about between the two scenes (and it certainly looks cleaner in Entry #49 than in Entry #29, even though it should be bloodier.) However, once Alex stands up and puts his glasses on, he walks to the mouth of the tunnel, then there's a cut, to a crotch shot as he turns the camera off. (Side note: blue sky in the background, different weather to Entry #29.) This cut means that he could have done anything he wanted with the rock in the mean time and put it out of the way. Although why would he put that to one side and not bother to put the rag somewhere out of sight (such as in his satchel)?

On a less serious note, who's to say the operator teleported Bruce to another dimension or another location? Why not teleport him to the other end of the tunnel so that he can eat in peace? After all, that's where he in Entry #29, when the bloodstains are fresh. That would explain why the shirt is still around afterwards!

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:45 am
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pravado
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Joined: 22 Apr 2011
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aidansean wrote:
Starkley wrote:
aidansean wrote:
How the bloody shirt got there is a different matter, but that's a problem for any theory really. And to be honest, if the operator can teleport living humans around, and even time travel (as evidenced in Entry #23) then why not put a bloody shirt on a rock?

I still think this entry can be canon and that the most likely scenario is that Alex films it after he "wakes up" from his slendertrance and realises what he has done. There's no way Jay filmed this, because if he did he would have had the footage from the handycam and made the effort to sync it up with the chestcam footage.


The thing is, the shirt IS there. And if this was Alex waking up from his Slendytrance, it would have had to have been in the same day. So in a span of hours, a bloody shirt appears from nowhere, and the rocks move around. Which #49 specifically shows us doesn't happen.

It would also be horribly inconsistent if The Operator had left it there. "Yeah, I'll wipe your memory, but here's a random clue before I wipe it again." And I don't see any character being able to pull shit back from Slendyoblivion.

I really don't buy that the guys just made a continuity error, because really, how hard is it to remember that there was a bloody shirt on the ground in the entry foreshadowing this event?


Okay, just to play devil's advocate a little here... We know that there's something there in Entry #29, but can we be sure it's a shirt? I've watched a few times and it could just be a rag that Alex used to clean himself up a bit before heading back to his car.

For some reason I hadn't noticed the rock moving about between the two scenes (and it certainly looks cleaner in Entry #49 than in Entry #29, even though it should be bloodier.) However, once Alex stands up and puts his glasses on, he walks to the mouth of the tunnel, then there's a cut, to a crotch shot as he turns the camera off. (Side note: blue sky in the background, different weather to Entry #29.) This cut means that he could have done anything he wanted with the rock in the mean time and put it out of the way. Although why would he put that to one side and not bother to put the rag somewhere out of sight (such as in his satchel)?

On a less serious note, who's to say the operator teleported Bruce to another dimension or another location? Why not teleport him to the other end of the tunnel so that he can eat in peace? After all, that's where he in Entry #29, when the bloodstains are fresh. That would explain why the shirt is still around afterwards!


lol so hard at this post

i've never seen such an insistent defense on something that's so unlikely to happen. what are they gonna do, have alex come out and say "the operator teleported bruce's shirt to me before i killed him to let me know i was supposed to kill a person when they came by, and then teleported him to the other side of the tunnel after i killed him, jay. god, pay attention"

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:03 pm
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Starkley
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 		We also don't know that The Operator can time travel. We can possibly assume from #23 that The Operator can change the rate of flow of time, but we can't necessarily say it time travels. Jay was the one who experienced a rapid change from day to night in a matter of seconds, not The Operator. (We didn't see him wink out of or into existence in one spot and then show up in the exact same spot after nightfall; he appeared for the first time only during the time that Jay was in the basement.)

Teleportation, highly likely. Time travel, less so. (And, if the shirt was a remnant of Slendy doing something to the body on the other side of the tunnel, why just bring the shirt back at the original side of the tunnel?)

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:31 pm
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pravado
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 		Entry 23 isn't time travel imo. The door is just open more so it creates a much darker downstairs (although one can argue that they did that on purpose to make it seem like time travel happened)

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:46 pm
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Starkley
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 		Yeah, I agree, and also, it IS possible for it to get dark that quickly...but I don't remember the exact date of #23 off the top of my head. But anyway, that's why I said possibly/assume. Even if TO can change the way time passes, it's not THAT relevant to the story so far except for the possibility that it could explain #29s impossible place in time.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:01 pm
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aidansean
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pravado wrote:
aidansean wrote:

Okay, just to play devil's advocate a little here... We know that there's something there in Entry #29, but can we be sure it's a shirt? I've watched a few times and it could just be a rag that Alex used to clean himself up a bit before heading back to his car.

For some reason I hadn't noticed the rock moving about between the two scenes (and it certainly looks cleaner in Entry #49 than in Entry #29, even though it should be bloodier.) However, once Alex stands up and puts his glasses on, he walks to the mouth of the tunnel, then there's a cut, to a crotch shot as he turns the camera off. (Side note: blue sky in the background, different weather to Entry #29.) This cut means that he could have done anything he wanted with the rock in the mean time and put it out of the way. Although why would he put that to one side and not bother to put the rag somewhere out of sight (such as in his satchel)?

On a less serious note, who's to say the operator teleported Bruce to another dimension or another location? Why not teleport him to the other end of the tunnel so that he can eat in peace? After all, that's where he in Entry #29, when the bloodstains are fresh. That would explain why the shirt is still around afterwards!


lol so hard at this post

i've never seen such an insistent defense on something that's so unlikely to happen. what are they gonna do, have alex come out and say "the operator teleported bruce's shirt to me before i killed him to let me know i was supposed to kill a person when they came by, and then teleported him to the other side of the tunnel after i killed him, jay. god, pay attention"


Pravado, pravado, pravado. Y U NO read first sentence?

aidansean wrote:
Okay, just to play devil's advocate a little here...


I'm not insistently defending this scenario, nor do I even suggest many of the things that you suggest I'm suggesting. My favourite theory is still that Alex wakes up from a trance and thinks "Oh shit, what did I just do?!" and runs back to the tunnel to check. There's more than one way this can fit in with the rest of the canon, and here are several continuity errors and retcons in the series.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:22 pm
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Starkley
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aidansean wrote:
and here are several continuity errors and retcons in the series.


What retcons/errors?

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:35 pm
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aidansean
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Starkley wrote:
We also don't know that The Operator can time travel. We can possibly assume from #23 that The Operator can change the rate of flow of time, but we can't necessarily say it time travels.


Changing the rate of time is distinct from moving from one point in time to another, and moving from one point in time to another, even if it's only forwards in time, is still time travel. In universe it probably doesn't matter if it's a change of rate of time or time jump, but I just assumed time jump because varying rates of time leads to all sorts of messy complications with causality etc.

Anyway, I'm not claiming that anything went back in time, (or that the operator knows the future), I'm just saying that the operator can mess with space and mess with time, which have dramatic effects on the world around him/it. I find it a bit ridiculous that we all agree he can teleport (or at least run really really fast), selectively wipe memories, move human bodies (alive or dead) from place to place, and interfere with recording devices, and yet creating/moving a bloody T-shirt is completely beyond him/it. Either this thing has awesome supernatural powers or it doesn't. Once we grant it supernatural powers like this, making a T-shirt appear seems like a party trick. (And the whole point of making the T-shirt appear is that it isn't Bruce's T-shirt.)

Starkley wrote:
Jay was the one who experienced a rapid change from day to night in a matter of seconds, not The Operator. (We didn't see him wink out of or into existence in one spot and then show up in the exact same spot after nightfall; he appeared for the first time only during the time that Jay was in the basement.)


There's tearing at 0:51 in Entry #23, so the operator teleporting nearby (if we're going to assume tearing=teleporting) long before Jay explores the basement. I suppose we know that Jay gets teleported and time-jumped, and it's possible that the operator doesn't do this, but then why Jay end up the basement at all?

Starkley wrote:
Teleportation, highly likely. Time travel, less so.


Backwards time travel, sure. Forwards time travel/varying rate of passage of time, quite likely.

Starkley wrote:
(And, if the shirt was a remnant of Slendy doing something to the body on the other side of the tunnel, why just bring the shirt back at the original side of the tunnel?)


That bit was just for lulz. The operator doesn't like to be filmed when he's eating!

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:53 pm
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