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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
[UPDATE] Rogue Process Destroyed!
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CoffeeJedi
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
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aliendial wrote:
* aliendial and StarCreator hide in the shadows, and pretend it was ALL Chappy there on the phone yesterday... Razz

perhaps YOU can shed some light on the origin of the laughter then?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:17 pm
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TheBiggestSean
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I myself have been curious what the Flea is up to...

I'd love to have a conversation with the little bug, I'm pretty good with Flea speak at this point, but... if some of the posts that recently indicated that today's calls seem a little more... hm... up-beat... than Melissa normally is, it's possible that the Flea actually managed what some of us have been saying he should do all along.

!attach, and reintegrate. He is after all, the only one that's capable of it.

And note that Mel said "rogue process" destroyed. Well, if the process is no longer a rogue, but has been reincorporated into the greater sum, wouldn't that count too? The process itself would be invisible to Melissa, and thus, seemingly destroyed.

And we know that PF likes to hide/hang out with the Princess. I think she was re-incorporated. It does effectively "kill" her, since we'll now have no further interaction with her. The "Entity" we called the Princess is gone, but I don't think that it necessarily means every part of her is gone.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:19 pm
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skybruin
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You know I just had a thought, If the Sleeping Princess is not completely destroyed, she will still live on in the memories of the players here, both melissa'a crew and the Sp Army will always remember her and smile at her comments and at her wonderous puzzles. In that way her light will shine on as long as we remember.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:30 pm
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daboking
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i posted something to this effect earlier, but maybe we should start a thread dedicated to remembering the memory of the SP. Razz I will try to start one in the interaction section.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:32 pm
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aliendial
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The laughter was Chappy laughing, mostly in surprise, when the text marker immediately caused the Queen to proclaim "got her!" - exactly as you hear in the clip. After our struggle with expired and wrong markers, we were relieved she seemed to accept this one but did not anticipate where it was going. Chappy expected to have to give the time stamp and page and then have a nice chat about Sunday or something, and instead he got cut off for the drama. LATER (on the way home) he laughed in glee. At the time it was just a reaction to the sudden change in the call and dramatic events unfolding. Remember we didn't know what the markers were for, so it was all a bit mysterious until the 404 got posted.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:47 pm
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johnny5
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aliendial wrote:
LATER (on the way home) he laughed in glee.


Does Chappy know he's being set up him the bomb?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:16 pm
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aliendial
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Well, of course he views his actions as a service to weephun. Who can't have ALL the evil phun around here.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:21 pm
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Scumbag
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
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----
All over the ship, dancing through the wreckage of the Sleeping Princess's subsystems,
MELISSA WAS LAUGHING

---

Appropriate enough, I think Wink. Now, if Mel had started stuttering and calling me insect afterwords... that wouldnve been cool Wink

Oh, and someone said this on page 6 I think, and nobody corrected him.

Quote:

Rampancy is going insane not ascending to a higher level


You've got it backward. Rampancy is not insanity. Hell, the term was coined because what D was going through wasn't insanity.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:19 pm
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Digitally l33t
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Scumbag wrote:

Quote:

Rampancy is going insane not ascending to a higher level


You've got it backward. Rampancy is not insanity. Hell, the term was coined because what D was going through wasn't insanity.


I suppose it's hard to say. If you look back at Durandal's posts from the first Marathon, before he became your mentor, as it were, I would say he was quite out of his mind. I can't get HIS songs out of my head.

I think it's a combination of ascension and insanity.
The computer shouldn't be capable of reaching that level of self awareness. Granted, Durandal was not as *real* as Durga/Mel, but in his case, he's reaching something that does not exist. His supposed "freedom" is really just one step in a process that [spec]I believe would eventually lead to his own self destruction.[/spec]

Durandal found the p'fhor interesting, and he let them take over the Marathon. Maybe Durga will find the Covenant interesting and help them out?

Who knows..
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:39 pm
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Scumbag
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Quote:

If you look back at Durandal's posts from the first Marathon, before he became your mentor, as it were, I would say he was quite out of his mind. I can't get HIS songs out of my head.


That was because Stauss kept him in the Melancholia stage before the Marathon was launched. When he finally was able to enter the Anger stage... he had quite a lot of anger to purge.
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When I first got there and asked about I Love Bees, the attendant said I must be looking for some other theater... I said, "er....Halo 2 Preview Event?" and suddenly he understood what I meant.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:40 pm
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Duckie
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Dana's posts are very interesting (I had a list of them, but lost it: I think it is in the Dana's Blog section of this forum)

Its like an odd poem... I don't know If its a message for us or for the Princess, but those messages seem to tell a story.
Can anyone figure out what?

Its also odd that the Princess' last post disappeared, though the link to once upon a time stayed. Did she pull out?

I think the quotes could be the key, here, as to whether or not she was really destroyed and maybe even where she is now.

But its just spec.

(OT) writing a blogbook sort of like Dana's. i'm putting a lot of work into it, so if you have some time, please check it out. My character, Sarah, could certainly use some help. Just start from the beginning.
Thanks if you take the time to read it, very VERY much appreciated.
Love it or hate it, at least tell what you think (email from the profile page)
thanks again
www.saravella.blogspot.com

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:11 pm
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Lakhesis
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Joined: 14 Sep 2004
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Digitally l33t wrote:
Granted, Durandal was not as *real* as Durga/Mel, but in his case, he's reaching something that does not exist. His supposed "freedom" is really just one step in a process that [spec]I believe would eventually lead to his own self destruction.[/spec]


It did... he was annihilated when the universe collapsed. Wink (Or he did find a way out and wasn't annihilated - they never tell you).
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:14 pm
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Digitally l33t
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Lakhesis wrote:
It did... he was annihilated when the universe collapsed. Wink (Or he did find a way out and wasn't annihilated - they never tell you).


I guess that counts...though I'm sure you know what I meant.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:39 pm
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Lakhesis
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Yeah, I do. It's 8PM, I'm still at work and feeling a little like a smartaleck. Didn't mean to take it out on you; my apologies.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:51 pm
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Phaedra
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Joined: 21 Sep 2004
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Thoughts

Nightmare Tony wrote:
And as official SPArmy Chandler, a candle must be lit to the memory of our dear Princess. For now she sleeps once again, with the flight of angels.

To Melissa's crew: God help you, for the Princess was all that remained of the humanity of Melissa. You will crave the human comfort of a Bin Laden or Hitler compared to what you are about to do...


I beg your pardon?

Pray, explain your analogy.

I find the last sentence both incoherent and incomprehensible.

Hyacinthe wrote:
I can see where you are coming from, trying to be unbaised. But I guess I see the game in a different light. I guess, for me anyways, the point is to act like you are a part of the story...


Yes, and I understand the desire to be immersed, and good for you, and have fun with it. But in-game, for me, I am not able to forget that no matter how cute, how charming, how intelligent, and how human the AIs may seem, they are not human.

The Sleeping Princess, in-game, was artificial intelligence. She was not literally a continuation of Yasmine -- becoming an AI doesn't mean continuing to exist mentally. Yasmine has been dead for as long as the SP/Durga/Melissa has been alive. The Sleeping Princess is an electronic reproduction of Yasmine's thought patterns.

Pretending for a moment that I believe in Multiple Personality Disorder (which seems to be the basic form of what the PMs were going for so I'll go with it), if Melissa were a person whose personality had split into three separate personas, successful treatment wouldn't involve a "happy ending" for the Princess. Supposedly, MPD produces full-fledged, complete personalities, not fragments. In reintegration, most of the personalities are going to disappear. Granted, it wouldn't generally involve the SP screaming heart-breakingly (and in real life, witnessing a grown man or woman suddenly take on the persona of a six-year-old is *creepy,* not endearing -- one has to get over the initial shock and often revulsion to deal with it) but it wouldn't involve her "returning home to see her brother" and living happily ever after.

Also, I'm not able to entirely trust even the SP. Once again, she's not human. She's simultaneously six and fourteen and old and young and a child and a program and very knowledgeable and very naive. Hearing the voice actress makes her a little more stable to me, but combining it with her writing makes her little-girl persona strike a false note again. I don't trust Melissa, either, but Melissa at least makes sense and is reasonably predictable, even if we don't like what she's doing.

I can understand Melissa. The Sleeping Princess remains something of an enigma to me, even if she is frequently adorable.

So, to return to your point, I don't feel that I'm not acting like I'm part of the story. If this were really happening, I would probably respond differently because some ethical issues that bother me would be decided, even if I weren't comfortable with the results, and others would be raised. But I don't know that I'd think about it very differently.

SuperJerms wrote:
Phaedra wrote:
I don't think it's a good analogy (I'm always leery of mechanizing the mind)


A fair point. But I don't know that it's like re-engineering the engine either. Perhaps we should stick with the mind...it's like saying, "the subject has seizures which we have decided comes from region x in the brain. Let's just burn away that section of the brain to fix it." <insert tragedy here>


Well, that's actually what they do in some cases.

If we're going to go back to the mind, then Multiple Personality Disorder, whether or not it exists in real life, remains the best analogy. And while the Princess would probably not have cried and screamed if she were an alter in an MPD patient, successful treatment would have involved her ceasing to exist as a separate entity (again, if successful treatment of what looks like MPD is even possible when treating it as MPD). And, generally, since the goal in treating the patient is basically to return them to who they were before they split, and since the original personality generally remains even though alters appear, treatment looks very much like annihilation of the other personalities, even if that is not the overt approach taken by the therapist.

Max Damage wrote:
'We didn't know' isn't much of an excuse. Any player who has been paying attention should know by know that Melissas first solution to any problem is 'Kill it'.


That's not her first solution. She is a program. She believed the SP was a virus. If I were a self-aware supercomputer, and I thought I had a virus, I too would attempt to delete it.

Similarly, she went after Dana because she believed Dana had tried to kill her.

Both times she was interested in "killing" someone (and I'm not sure that's the right term for her interaction with the SP, as again, she thought she was a virus) it was in self-defense. Pre-emptive self-defense, in Dana's case, but self-defense.

We know she was acting on faulty assumptions, but if you allow for her premises, her actions were logical. Quite logical, for an AI everyone seems to assume is insane.

Quote:
Hearing the guy laughing as the girl dies... That's just f'ing creepy.


That I agree with.

Quote:
Has Melissa hand-picked the most sociopathic players possible to fill out her crew?


Mind your manners. I don't think there are any of the crew that I would characterize as sociopathic (although chappy's coming close) and the crew was picked randomly.

Fenwicked wrote:
And about the specs that deleting the Princess or the SPDR is "derampancizing" Melissa, what if the opposite is true? What if we're getting a glimpse into exactly how rampancy takes place. An AI eventually becomes aware of it's various psychological components and eliminates certain ones in an effort to make itself more efficient and/or powerful. But in doing so, it inadvertently removes parts of itself that that need to balance each other to keep it "sane" so to speak. A similar chain of events might take place within the confines of every AI as it goes rampant, but this time we get to watch it taking place because of the hardware Melissa happens to be on right now.


Troubling SPEC. But as I understand it, rampancy involves the AI thinking too much, essentially thinking itself to death until it becomes catatonic.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:02 pm
Last edited by Phaedra on Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:01 pm; edited 3 times in total
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