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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
[UPDATE] Rogue Process Destroyed!
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Phaedra
Lurker v2.0


Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 4033
Location: Here, obviously

 		Again.
Nightmare Tony wrote:
Can we move on, please? Thanks.


Fine. I will move on after saying this -- perhaps my the iciness of the tone I intended was not clear in my posts. Let me spell it out for you. I find your analogy highly objectionable. Players should not be demonized in that manner.

More importantly, the Holocaust should not be trivialized in that manner.

Now we may move on.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:13 pm
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Grifter_7
Unfettered


Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 536
Location: I could tell you, but I'd have to kill you.

 		I think we should find something we can all agree on... like Grillled Cheese Sandwiches. I think they are great. Does everyone agree?

The point here is that opinions are not facts, and while we all have opinions that does not mean that we are right or someone else is wrong.

The fact is that the Sleeping Princess is gone, and there's nothing that we can do NOW to change that. Whether it was a moral decision that lead to her demise or the lack there of is irrlivent. She is gone (or at least we are supposed to believe she is gone) and the game goes on.

The SP had a part to play and she played it. I am sad that she is gone, and I express that as a player of the game. So I lament for her, but I also realized that she had a purpose in the game, and that she made the game seem more real.

Kudos to the PM for making us care about her so much that we would actually argue about it after her passing.

Until this point we were pretty much united, which if you think about it, is pretty amazing considering all the different races, religions, personalities, etc that are represented by the different players in this game. Again Kudos to the PM. I for one would rather be united moving forward because of the sheer force that we weild when we work together.
In closing, respect other's opinions but realize that they are not facts, and neither are your opinions.

Now I'm off to eat a Grilled Cheese Sandwich.

Exit Grifter_7, Intelligence Officer
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:35 pm
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Phaedra
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Joined: 21 Sep 2004
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Grifter_7 wrote:
Until this point we were pretty much united, which if you think about it, is pretty amazing considering all the different races, religions, personalities, etc that are represented by the different players in this game.


Good post, Grifter, and I agree.

But I just had to say...personalities, yes, but other than that...I rather doubt we're bursting at the seams with diversity.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:48 pm
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Ikkarus
Veteran


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 87
Phaedra wrote:
But I just had to say...personalities, yes, but other than that...I rather doubt we're bursting at the seams with diversity.

There are females here. That already makes this place twice as diverse as most other game-related sites.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:19 pm
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thebruce
Dances With Wikis


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 6899
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Butterfingers wrote:
This is a game. It is entirely fictional, just like movies and books and stuff. Who cares if a character dies? I certainly don't. I honestly can't believe people are even talking about this.

Making choices based on a moral code!? What the hell!?

How many people here have killed characters in computer games? I admit I have. Does it mean that my choice to kill a character in a computer game is a moral choice? That I'd carry out the same act in real life? That killing people is part of my 'moral code'?Hell no.

If I was put in the same position, I'd try to kill as many in game characters as possible to see how the story would evolve and play out. It's purely fictional entertainment and I like it.

this'll be my only post on this, as it seems the topic is starting to dwindle... but I just have to say - define "role playing"...

ilovebees is in a sense a role-playing game... as soon as you enter into a fictional universe and you are part of it, it becomes a role playing situation. Yeah, you can play a game and just have the goal of getting to the end any way, but are you fully realizing the intent of the authors of that game? Are you fully exploring what they intended to express from beginning to end?

I think we find in ilovebees so many different levels of people's "involvement" (ie roleplaying), from not caring about anything except solving the puzzles in some way, to having a personal connection with the characters, blurring the lines between reality and unreality... of course, that's the danger of role playing - a big reaons why D&D was such a controversy when it came out, because so many people go caught up in it that they ended up harming either themselves or others because it creeped into the real life to the point of not being able to tell the difference.

Even so, from a meta standpoint, everyone needs to realize and respect that there are people out there who are playing the role moreso than you may be. If I'm just playing the game, but someone else is roleplaying the game, and I carelessly go in and ruin it for them (say, much like brute-forcing a puzzle, pulling aside the curtain and going meta to solve a problem) it totally kills the game for those who are playing their roles IN the game.

So, on both sides, insulting, or criticizing someone because either they love the SP too much, or they're murderers for killing the SP is simply IMO, disrespectful to the game...

the only consolation I can see for that kind of criticism is if someone really, seriously, is taking the game too far... if they come back and honestly believe that a person is a murderer, not just playing the role of a person who loved the SP, but literally thinks the real life person is a murderer, then that person just may be taking their role a little too far...

role playing, people. It CAN be fun, respect people who do it well, and respect people who choose not to. Seek help for those people who make role playing real. Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:30 pm
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TuxKamen
Decorated


Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 187
Grifter_7 wrote:
I think we should find something we can all agree on... like Grillled Cheese Sandwiches. I think they are great. Does everyone agree?


Word. Grilled Cheese/Kosher Dill in '04.

I would remind everyone of what I said last time, but for two things:

1) Quoting yourself is bad form. Even if you _are_ cool, intelligent, handsome, et cetera...

2) We're coming up on a live event, and that implies decisions. Just because something's on rails doesn't mean there aren't branch points.

I don't think we had a choice here, just like the last time. When there is no counterindication that what the crew is doing is wrong, and all marks of success are predicated on completing the *Queen's* objectives and not the SP's, you can't envision deliberate failure as a proper strategy.

So, don't feel bad. It's almost over. One way or the other. I think one decision point will be the success or failure of this upcoming mission. If you want the SP to win, tell Jersey to free his mind and walk right through the security (or something like that).
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:07 pm
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Shad0
I Have No Life


Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Posts: 2180
Location: Southern California, USA

 		Re: Dana
kasuta wrote:
I was thinking about these latest developments last night, and how angry people are getting and looking for someone to blame, and I was wondering if this latest twist has changed anyone's opinion of Dana. It seems most people have been very protective of Dana since the beginning, I remember threads about sacrificing her that got fairly heated.

The beekeepers did not willingly participate in eliminating the princess-they were 'tricked' into it, so to speak, by Melissa. However, Dana knew what she was getting into and what the consequences of her actions would be. Even if she was coerced and/or blackmailed, she still made a conscious choice. If anyone is looking for a target for their anger and sense of loss over the SP, why isn't Dana considered a viable target?

Well, since you asked:

I wrote:
Subject: San Francisco, California - Shad0, Lt. Cmdr.
Date: 10/27/2004 4:32:55 PM Pacific Standard Time
To: danatwingSPLATgmail.com

And a personal message for Dana:

If you feel guilty for doing what you had to do, that's normal. But don't let anyone else make you feel guiltier than that. No one else was in your shoes. No one else could make your decision for you. You did what you had to do. And some people do understand.

Love to Aunt Margaret, welcome home, and good luck on Sunday.

Lt. Cmdr. Shad0
Chief Information Officer
LAVA Squad
--
These were the puzzles that would take a day, these were puzzles that would take a week, and these puzzles they'd probably never figure out until we broke down and gave them the answers. ... The Cloudmakers solved all of these puzzles on the first day.

And Dana wrote:
Subject: THANK YOU Re: San Francisco, California - Shad0, Lt. Cmdr.
Date: 10/27/2004 11:11:19 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: danatwingSPLATgmail.com

Thank you.

It means a very great deal to know you, who I have always trusted, is
not disappointed.

-d.

P.S. I hate grilled cheese sandwiches. (Pity there's no www.ihatecheese.com yet.)
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These were the puzzles that would take a day, these were puzzles that would take a week, and these puzzles they'd probably never figure out until we broke down and gave them the answers. ... The Cloudmakers solved all of these puzzles on the first day.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:09 pm
Last edited by Shad0 on Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Phaedra
Lurker v2.0


Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 4033
Location: Here, obviously
TuxKamen wrote:
Grifter_7 wrote:
I think we should find something we can all agree on... like Grillled Cheese Sandwiches. I think they are great. Does everyone agree?


Word. Grilled Cheese/Kosher Dill in '04.

I would remind everyone of what I said last time, but for two things:

1) Quoting yourself is bad form. Even if you _are_ cool, intelligent, handsome, et cetera...


Not if it's necessary to clarify a point.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:10 pm
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TuxKamen
Decorated


Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 187
Phaedra wrote:
TuxKamen wrote:
1) Quoting yourself is bad form. Even if you _are_ cool, intelligent, handsome, et cetera...


Not if it's necessary to clarify a point.


All right. I am cool, intelligent, and handsome. Et cetera.
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//ilovefleas

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:33 pm
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johnny5
Entrenched

Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 995
Location: Elysian Fields
Phaedra wrote:
Grifter_7 wrote:
Until this point we were pretty much united, which if you think about it, is pretty amazing considering all the different races, religions, personalities, etc that are represented by the different players in this game.


Good post, Grifter, and I agree.

But I just had to say...personalities, yes, but other than that...I rather doubt we're bursting at the seams with diversity.


I'm going to have to disagree with you here Phaedra. Take a look at the crew pictures for verification. (Yes, mostly white males, but not entirely).
The women to men ratio is also rather high considering the relationship to Halo2. That may be due to the ARG though (present company excepted, Kali also).
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As with any friend, use it to your advantage.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:37 pm
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Phaedra
Lurker v2.0


Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 4033
Location: Here, obviously
johnny_Nitro wrote:
Phaedra wrote:
Grifter_7 wrote:
Until this point we were pretty much united, which if you think about it, is pretty amazing considering all the different races, religions, personalities, etc that are represented by the different players in this game.


Good post, Grifter, and I agree.

But I just had to say...personalities, yes, but other than that...I rather doubt we're bursting at the seams with diversity.


I'm going to have to disagree with you here Phaedra. Take a look at the crew pictures for verification. (Yes, mostly white males, but not entirely).
The women to men ratio is also rather high considering the relationship to Halo2. That may be due to the ARG though (present company excepted, Kali also).


Hmm. You're right. I didn't think of including gender in the "diversity" category. I wouldn't consider myself contributing to diversity just because I'm a woman.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:39 pm
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Centipede
Unfettered


Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 439
Location: Bronx, NY
Phaedra wrote:
Sunyavadin wrote:
Murdering traitors.
After all the effort we put in to help the princess, it comes down to a few who decide to help the villain of the piece coerce the innocent victim into working for her through what amounts to little more than bullying and peer pressure and to murder a defenceless little girl.

Well, I hope you get what's coming to you when the covenant show up.


And again, is a "betrayal" committed in ignorance truly a betrayal?

Where was the bullying? Where was the peer pressure? Have you even read the transcripts of the calls? Somehow I rather doubt it.


I would say that a betrayal through ignorance is no betrayal at all. As far as the bullying, I'm pretty sure Sunyadin was refering to how Dana was forced into Melissa's service. Threats to her Aunt, coupled with the Beekeepers suggestions would amount to bullying and peer pressure.


vpisteve wrote:
Mimes. I've only shot mimes in a game. Really. Mimes.


There's a game where you get to shoot mimes? I must have it! Twisted Evil


Grilled Cheese/Bacon '04

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:49 pm
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kasuta
Boot

Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 13

 		I think mime-shooting was one of the selling points of No One Lives Forever 2. I never got to play it but I saw plenty of screenshots.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:37 pm
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SuperJerms
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Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 537
Location: indiana

 		It is, by far, the most intelligent and (overall) polite online community I've ever been a part of (oh, and with the whole Weephun thing it's also the most giving one).
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:01 pm
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Phaedra
Lurker v2.0


Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 4033
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 		Courtesy
SuperJerms wrote:
It is, by far, the most intelligent and (overall) polite online community I've ever been a part of (oh, and with the whole Weephun thing it's also the most giving one).


Yes, in general it is. No one's called me a b*tch yet, and other than one homophobic insult (of which the target was Justin Timberlake, not homosexuals) there haven't been any racial/ethnic/whatever slurs, which is *very* nice. There actually have been very few out-and-out insults, and those that have occurred have been mostly in this thread. Generally in forums like this, a few trolls always seem to slip in past the moderators, but it's been a pleasant surprise here.

The level of general *ickiness* is why I gave up on newsgroups (seriously, you wouldn't believe the newsgroups) and chat and most other online activities.

This has been a glorious surprise.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:07 pm
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