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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
[VIDEO] Isolation
Moderators: Giskard, JKatkina, Zarggg
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SHODAN
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Joined: 05 Apr 2011
Posts: 86
Lithp wrote:
Quote:
From a storytelling perspective, I don't see the effectiveness of having characters switching alliances willy nilly before we even know who they are or what anyone's goal is or who was on what side in the first place.


Well, it makes it more difficult to figure out the mystery, of course.


Not really. From a storytelling perspective, it makes the story difficult to follow and eventually the fans will start to wonder if there's any coherent story. For example, EMH and Marble Hornets are different kinds of stories, but MH is more accessible to the average person than EMH. There has to be a plot before there can be any 'mystery'.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:55 pm
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SHODAN
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Joined: 05 Apr 2011
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pravado wrote:
i'm in the boat that jay is also doing shady stuff while under the operator's influence, but i feel like he would have had footage of it, it's the only thing keeping me from beleving it

oh and i don't hate that it's going mainstream, quite the opposite. i just hate that all the newcomers are flooding this site with stupid things


Yeah, it's generally been the case that when Jay is up to something questionable, there's been some indicator. TTA suggesting he's an unreliable narrator, or the video of him all crazy while TO glides by.

Also pretty much spot on about the result of the different media bringing more 'off topic' behavior. I know you guys just love jumping over Pravado for posting something contrary to the UF echo chamber.

I only bring up SomethingAwful because it's known that UF also frequents SA and vice-versa, but having the forums pay, strict rules against 'lolz lulz' posts', you increase the quality of the content provided. When I come to a Slender Man discussion forum, I expect to discuss Slender Man, not have to wade through pages upon pages of empty praise and off-topic behavior, be it Nutella or creepy fan pictures.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:03 pm
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Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
Posts: 2058
Quote:
Not really. From a storytelling perspective, it makes the story difficult to follow and eventually the fans will start to wonder if there's any coherent story. For example, EMH and Marble Hornets are different kinds of stories, but MH is more accessible to the average person than EMH. There has to be a plot before there can be any 'mystery'.


Uh, no, the entire premise of the mystery genre is that you know virtually nothing, & you have to piece together the scenario & motives from subtle clues. It is also not uncommon to make one of the victims a former accomplice, so that you can't use a simple method, such as elimination, to solve the puzzle.

That said, I agree that we need some kind of plot advancement on all of these questions, 'cause they're starting to smell a lot like plot holes, but what you just said wasn't any kind of objective rule.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:24 pm
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GameGodOfAll
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Joined: 25 Feb 2011
Posts: 705

 		Late to the party due to busy busy busy, but seems like typical TTA vid.

Don't feel like reading through everything. Anyone wanna do me a solid and sum up everything found. I did browse a bit as saw a pic that said "Where is she" instead of he which got me pretty excited.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:29 pm
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Jingleman
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Joined: 29 Aug 2012
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Location: Texas
Lithp wrote:
Uh, no, the entire premise of the mystery genre is that you know virtually nothing, & you have to piece together the scenario & motives from subtle clues. It is also not uncommon to make one of the victims a former accomplice, so that you can't use a simple method, such as elimination, to solve the puzzle.


I see where you're coming from, but the mystery writer mustn't cheat. It's perfectly permissible for a character to have indeterminate allegiances or even motives. A good double- or triple-agent story depends on that kind of "what side are you on" suspense. What you don't want is for it to turn out that all of the clues in the first act were worthless. A red herring here and there can add to the story, but if all of the clues from the first parts of the story turn out to be misleading, then the audience will feel cheated. You want them to look back and think, "How did I miss that?" not "Where did that come from?" That's the thing I worry about if unknown characters are changing their allegiances before we even know what the sides are.

The other thing is that this is horror, not pure mystery, and that's important. Genre is, among other things, the set of the expectations an audience brings to the story because of its type. The difference between horror and conventional mystery is that in a conventional story, the audience comes to the table already understanding the rules of the world, so clues are just clues. Horror stories, on the other hand, are generally about learning the rules of a supernatural problem, then using that information to survive. A vial of poison in a mystery story just means the wife did it, but in a horror story it might very well mean that poison is the only way to kill Monster McScary. Clues in a horror story do explain the minutia of plot, like who's against whom, but the audience also depends on those clues to understand how the supernatural world works.

Part of the reason we want to know whose side TTA is on and who he is is that we want to know if it's possible to oppose the Operator effectively. I'm just worried that if TTA's been flipping back and forth before we know what the rules are for this world, then it muddles our understanding of the world for the sake of a surprise twist. I'm not sure that's worth it. Still, until we get some revelations, these will just remain concerns of mine, not necessarily plot holes or mistakes on the part of the writers. Hopefully, everything will come together in the end.

@GameGodOfAll: "Where isshe" is the most substantial "find" so far. The last frames flash "follows all," with the Operator edited in (TO is probably taken from the entry where Alex attacks Tim, 56). I don't think we've found anything else significant.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:59 pm
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pravado
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Joined: 22 Apr 2011
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Animal wrote:
I was just re-watching entry 19 and in the video Jay says he watched TTA's response to 18 messages and then shows a video he found during his paranoia filming of masky appearing in his room and then taking him out of bed. After the video, Jay says "ToTheArk, who I suspect is the person wearing the mask, knows where I live."

So that explains who was controlling the camera during Return, and this also explains how Tim was making the TTA videos in the beginning, and the change of style is probably credited to the switch from masky to hoody. Which explains why hoody has been so dominant in the videos and masky doesn't appear to be involved or at least directly anymore. Hoody took it over.

Perhaps masky was alligned with the operator, but either masky changed his alliance for some reason to team up with hoody (probably because of alex?) or hoody just took over TTA completely and has different motives from masky


It doesn't explain anything for a fact. Jay has been wrong before in the black and white text, and if you give me some time I will find what entry.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:53 pm
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Animal
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Joined: 01 Sep 2012
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pravado wrote:
Animal wrote:
I was just re-watching entry 19 and in the video Jay says he watched TTA's response to 18 messages and then shows a video he found during his paranoia filming of masky appearing in his room and then taking him out of bed. After the video, Jay says "ToTheArk, who I suspect is the person wearing the mask, knows where I live."

So that explains who was controlling the camera during Return, and this also explains how Tim was making the TTA videos in the beginning, and the change of style is probably credited to the switch from masky to hoody. Which explains why hoody has been so dominant in the videos and masky doesn't appear to be involved or at least directly anymore. Hoody took it over.

Perhaps masky was alligned with the operator, but either masky changed his alliance for some reason to team up with hoody (probably because of alex?) or hoody just took over TTA completely and has different motives from masky


It doesn't explain anything for a fact. Jay has been wrong before in the black and white text, and if you give me some time I will find what entry.


True I shouldn't use such definitive language in this case. And that's interesting that he's been wrong before.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:58 pm
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Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
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 		Well, while we're on the subject of motives, let me actually remember what thread I'm in, & see if I can infer anything about it.

I am going to make the prediction that Hoody took them to that shack because he wanted them to go there. He made this message as a way of saying, "Get your asses back to the shack."

Not sure if it has other, minor meanings, but I believe that was the main thing.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:15 am
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Animal
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 		I think the shack could be the "ark" if you define ark as, " a place or thing offering shelter or protection".

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:13 pm
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Jingleman
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Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 239
Location: Texas
Animal wrote:
I think the shack could be the "ark" if you define ark as, " a place or thing offering shelter or protection".

I suppose that's possible, but then why does TTA need Jay to lead him to the ark? Hoody knows where the Hoody Hut is. Maybe Jay needs to activate something? I don't know, it seems like a stretch for the Hut to be the ark. I kind of think we're going to find out what the ark is before we see it, not the other way around.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:27 pm
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Spritey
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Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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Location: San Marcos, California, USA

 		The bullet casing was the ark

:O

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:40 pm
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Animal
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Joined: 01 Sep 2012
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Jingleman wrote:
Animal wrote:
I think the shack could be the "ark" if you define ark as, " a place or thing offering shelter or protection".

I suppose that's possible, but then why does TTA need Jay to lead him to the ark? Hoody knows where the Hoody Hut is. Maybe Jay needs to activate something? I don't know, it seems like a stretch for the Hut to be the ark. I kind of think we're going to find out what the ark is before we see it, not the other way around.


This is true, and it is possible that he may need Jay to activate something in "the ark" but that is divulging in some deep speculation. The hut is probably a stretch to being the ark, but I do think that the ark is intended to be defined that way. As a place of shelter or protection

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:46 pm
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Kimren
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Joined: 16 Aug 2012
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Location: Midwest

 		I know this comment was last page, and lots of information ago, but I had an idea from it.

Jingleman wrote:
At least, that's how I rationalize the the video, but I'm not sure that I can come up with a satisfactory interpretation of "found you/forever." Still, I think that the rest of the series implies that TTA opposes TO, including "Isolation."


"found you/forever."

This was fairly early in the series, right? Rewatching all of the ToTheArk videos prior to Return, none of them explicitly say that TTA has any significant interest in Jay, just that he's being stalked. I figure it's like this- TTA had been trying to beat the Operator for awhile, but to no avail. A new player enters the field: Jay. TTA sees his youtube stuff, and responds accordingly to let Jay know he's not alone, but he shouldn't feel safe, either. Then, while at the house the first time, TTA realizes that Jay is the key to the Ark, either as he coincidentally fits the lock, or maybe he's paranormally special. So, Jay gets lured back a second time to prove it (the Operator did walk right by him without doing anything to him).
What I'm getting at is, maybe "found you/forever." is TTA's way of saying "I have found the ark... finally."
It's not much, but it's my answer to this nightmarish response.

(Edited for clarity)
_________________
Timism: The devout following of the one, true Tim. "It all happened so Sutton..."

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:13 pm
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Jingleman
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Joined: 29 Aug 2012
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Location: Texas
Kimren wrote:
What I'm getting at is, maybe "found you/forever." is TTA's way of saying "I have found the ark... finally."


I guess that's possible, or if it's not that he's found the ark (because Jay hasn't taken him), maybe it's that he's found his way/map/guide/key/whatever to the ark.

It's a tough one, I admit. The first impression I had upon watching "Return" was that it was from the perspective of the Operator. He closes in on the shot, and then, "found you!" The trouble has always been that it was posted by TTA, so it seems like TTA is saying "(We) found you," which tended to conflict with the evidence from the rest of the series that indicates that TTA opposes the Operator.

In light of this recent video, "Isolation," I'm thinking that maybe "found you/forever" may have been meant sorrowfully, the way I read "follows all." "Return," then, may have been meant as a sad notice to Jay that Jay was now in the crosshairs of the Operator, as "follows all" declares that TTA is a victim, too. So, not "(We) found you" as a taunt, but "(He) found you," as in, "You're in for it now. Sorry, bro." For the subject and verb to agree, "follows all" must be "(He) follows all." "Isolation" and "Return" both had the Operator show up at the end, with the captions, so maybe we should be reading them he same way.

It's still not conclusive enough for me to be satisfied, but that's my working interpretation at the moment.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:23 pm
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Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
Posts: 2058

 		You're expecting proper grammar from Totheark?

Seriously, though, I don't know what to say about this. Has he really not made any mentions of "finding the ark" since he said, "found you"?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:09 pm
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