Return to Unfiction unforum
 a.r.g.b.b 
FAQ FAQ   Search Search 
 
Welcome!
New users, PLEASE read these forum guidelines. New posters, SEARCH before posting and read these rules before posting your killer new campaign. New players may also wish to peruse the ARG Player Tutorial.

All users must abide by the Terms of Service.
Website Restoration Project
This archiving project is a collaboration between Unfiction and Sean Stacey (SpaceBass), Brian Enigma (BrianEnigma), and Laura E. Hall (lehall) with
the Center for Immersive Arts.
Announcements
This is a static snapshot of the
Unfiction forums, as of
July 23, 2017.
This site is intended as an archive to chronicle the history of Alternate Reality Games.
  

The time now is Wed Nov 20, 2024 9:59 pm
All times are UTC - 4 (DST in action)		 View posts in this forum since last visit
View unanswered posts in this forum
Calendar
 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Slender Man Mythos
Proxy Pandering
Moderators: ChildOfAtom, Cougar Draven, DavFlamerock, Dixie_Wolf, ndemeter
View previous topicView next topic
Page 1 of 3 [33 Posts]   Goto page: 1, 2, 3 Next
Author Message
Baronness
Decorated


Joined: 05 Sep 2012
Posts: 234
Location: Texas

 		Proxy Pandering
Should proxies and/or 3rd parties exist?
Proxies are a big part of the SM story. They've been the most commonly-used vehicles for "communication" with Slendy; they carry out what sometimes seem to be his orders; and they leave us fun, cryptic messages to decipher. There are also the creepy observers out there, the creepers, who may not be proxies but who still seem to possess an uncanny amount of knowledge on SM and what's going on in general.

Proxies and creepers alike add an extra, deeper element to these horror stories that, I would argue, needs to be there. But I've seen a lot of people posting about being sick of proxies/3rd parties with strangely all-encompassing knowledge and a penchant for codes and riddles. It all does seem rather cliché, although I will admit I've discovered a few creepers in SlVlogs recently who could give others a run for their money.

Any thoughts on how to make a proxy/creeper more original, or whether you think a story can survive without one but still have that extra 'decode me!' element?

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:49 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website
 Back to top 
xemnasvii
Unfettered


Joined: 22 May 2012
Posts: 358

 		You can make the main character a proxy protagonist have some kind of inbox of sorts that mysteriously fills itself. Idk.
Also, for the puzzle part... I like doing zip file passwords. It makes things feel open.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:58 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Baronness
Decorated


Joined: 05 Sep 2012
Posts: 234
Location: Texas
xemnasvii wrote:
Also, for the puzzle part... I like doing zip file passwords. It makes things feel open.


You mean a zip file that everyone can download?

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:00 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website
 Back to top 
xemnasvii
Unfettered


Joined: 22 May 2012
Posts: 358
Baronness wrote:
xemnasvii wrote:
Also, for the puzzle part... I like doing zip file passwords. It makes things feel open.


You mean a zip file that everyone can download?

Yes. I did what I'm refferring to here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V56b9eWGJ2I&list=UU5nc5OSO1aUdh8YnJWGm37A&index=5&feature=plcp

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:12 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Baronness
Decorated


Joined: 05 Sep 2012
Posts: 234
Location: Texas

 		That's really interesting. Did you just have your character do it, or was it made available for all players?

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:30 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website
 Back to top 
Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
Posts: 2058

 		These are the things that I really hate about proxies, or "informants," which I believe is a more inclusive term. These are really hyper-condensed versions of the "Bad Informant Tropes," don't expect many characters to fit more than 1 of them to a T.

1. They know everything, but it is not clear how.
2. They never want to give a straight answer, if this is explained, it's usually with something weak like "they think it's fun."
3. They don't have any kind of goal that's even kind of clear.
4. Lack of interaction with the story--they make it clear that they are watching, & that they know more than you, but they never get involved.
5. Puzzles are ultimately meaningless. They might say something like "go here," but they really don't change the game at all.

Essentially, they are characters who have no characterization. And that is bad. They come across to me as a shallow attempt to add depth with a plot device that is total filler.

If you recognize that your informant is a character, & needs to have things like motives, personality, etc. it becomes less godawful to deal with, but ultimately, I don't think these guys are needed to drop clues. Clues do not have to come in the form of encoded puzzles.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:49 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Baronness
Decorated


Joined: 05 Sep 2012
Posts: 234
Location: Texas
Lithp wrote:
These are the things that I really hate about proxies, or "informants," which I believe is a more inclusive term. ...

1. They know everything, but it is not clear how.
2. They never want to give a straight answer, if this is explained, it's usually with something weak like "they think it's fun."
3. They don't have any kind of goal that's even kind of clear.
4. Lack of interaction with the story--they make it clear that they are watching, & that they know more than you, but they never get involved.
5. Puzzles are ultimately meaningless. They might say something like "go here," but they really don't change the game at all.

Essentially, they are characters who have no characterization. And that is bad. They come across to me as a shallow attempt to add depth with a plot device that is total filler.

If you recognize that your informant is a character, & needs to have things like motives, personality, etc. it becomes less godawful to deal with, but ultimately, I don't think these guys are needed to drop clues. Clues do not have to come in the form of encoded puzzles.


Thanks! Okay, all of those things make sense. How would you suggest dropping clues, though? And I thought that the point of ARGs was to give the audience something to interact with (e.g., clues, puzzles, etc.)? Not trying to be argumentative; I just really want to hear your (and others') thoughts on this.

I mean, it seems to me that the only way characters can come across clues is to A) have them do research in a library/on the computer (cue boring montage of skimming books or something), or B) have someone who already knows things send them your character's way. Cue informants. Make sense? Otherwise, it might end up being, like, your protag in front of the camera blabbering about how they 'noticed this' about something and so they're going to go do something else... It'd be plot advancement, but in a really boring, not-creative way.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:08 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website
 Back to top 
xemnasvii
Unfettered


Joined: 22 May 2012
Posts: 358

 		As for the arg element I did, it is available to all players. The reason the protagonist uploaded a locked file was to supposedly prevent being traced.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:41 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
Posts: 2058
Quote:
Thanks! Okay, all of those things make sense. How would you suggest dropping clues, though?


This is really tough to say because I am speaking generally about a broad...thing.

Let's say the thing your protagonist is looking for is "why Slenderman is after me," because that's probably a pretty common thing, & one of the hardest to have physical evidence for, given Slenderman's paranormal nature.

Even so, you can potentially have a lot of sources for this information, which each give a part of the puzzle--surviving victims, legends, news reports, etc.

Quote:
And I thought that the point of ARGs was to give the audience something to interact with (e.g., clues, puzzles, etc.)? Not trying to be argumentative; I just really want to hear your (and others') thoughts on this.


I don't think that's really a problem. I can interact just as much by trying to figure out something in your videos as I can by trying to decode something from your proxy. Possibly more, because I don't necessarily have the means to solve your codes.

Quote:
Otherwise, it might end up being, like, your protag in front of the camera blabbering about how they 'noticed this' about something and so they're going to go do something else... It'd be plot advancement, but in a really boring, not-creative way.


Personally, I think a novel solution would be that the protagonist isn't given the clue. Maybe they've panned over the scene & believed to have found nothing. The audience is going to endlessly pour over the details of the scene anyway, so why not have it lead to plot advancement? It seems like a more believable way for an "investigation" to go.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:45 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Cougar DravenModerator
Entrenched


Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Posts: 1190
Location: Potentially everywhere.

 		This question makes about as much sense as "should pancakes banana?"
_________________
Currently playing: MH, EMH, The Master Theorem
Moderating: Slender Man Mythos, The Master Theorem
Writing: ???
Picture that. In your dreams.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:50 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Baronness
Decorated


Joined: 05 Sep 2012
Posts: 234
Location: Texas
Cougar Draven wrote:
This question makes about as much sense as "should pancakes banana?"


How would you suggest I reword it, then?

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:30 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website
 Back to top 
Cougar DravenModerator
Entrenched


Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Posts: 1190
Location: Potentially everywhere.

 		I don't know that I would. The question I was referring to was "should proxies exist", and I personally would remove that entirely. As for the rest of your post, you have something of a point, but I've noticed that many puzzles can't afford to be complex or people just...won't solve them.
_________________
Currently playing: MH, EMH, The Master Theorem
Moderating: Slender Man Mythos, The Master Theorem
Writing: ???
Picture that. In your dreams.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:33 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Fotzepolitic
Decorated


Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Posts: 227
Location: the government blankets
Lithp wrote:

1. They know everything, but it is not clear how.


Yes, this is lame.

Lithp wrote:
2. They never want to give a straight answer, if this is explained, it's usually with something weak like "they think it's fun."


This may be lame but it is how the kind of nutcase people who set weird puzzles while merrily murderering people tend to operate. They lack empathy so they don't see how someone not solving their puzzle means anything other than that they are super-dooper clever.

Lithp wrote:
3. They don't have any kind of goal that's even kind of clear.


This if they have no goal. Not this if the goal is not clear. But it should at least become clear or be deduceable.


Lithp wrote:
4. Lack of interaction with the story--they make it clear that they are watching, & that they know more than you, but they never get involved.


Yeah, this does suck. At least Masky nutted Jay in the dick that one time.

Lithp wrote:
5. Puzzles are ultimately meaningless. They might say something like "go here," but they really don't change the game at all.


I suppose the problem with puzzles is, why set them at all? If you want Person X to go somewhere, why not just tell them exactly where that place is? If it's to delay them getting there, it's a really messy way to do it, because you have no control over how long the puzzle will take to solve. So instead you could delay it by just not sending the co-ordinates at all.

The only reason I can think of would be the same reason there's like 10 minutes of empty path at the start of Silent Hill 2 - because the more effort you put into moving forward, the less inclined you'll be to turn back.

Lithp wrote:
Essentially, they are characters who have no characterization. And that is bad. They come across to me as a shallow attempt to add depth with a plot device that is total filler.

If you recognize that your informant is a character, & needs to have things like motives, personality, etc. it becomes less godawful to deal with, but ultimately, I don't think these guys are needed to drop clues. Clues do not have to come in the form of encoded puzzles.


I think it's important for the author to know

a) who or what the proxy is;
b) what their motives are;
c) what "side" they are on;
d) why they choose the methods that they do.

It doesn't matter quite so much if the audience doesn't know that, because if these things are consistent throughout all the proxy's appearances, they'll at least be able to get a sense of that. The most important thing is probably to know what the proxy isn't.
_________________
Probably the first Slendervlog to reference Grindr.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:35 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Fotzepolitic
Decorated


Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Posts: 227
Location: the government blankets
Lithp wrote:
Quote:
Otherwise, it might end up being, like, your protag in front of the camera blabbering about how they 'noticed this' about something and so they're going to go do something else... It'd be plot advancement, but in a really boring, not-creative way.


Personally, I think a novel solution would be that the protagonist isn't given the clue. Maybe they've panned over the scene & believed to have found nothing. The audience is going to endlessly pour over the details of the scene anyway, so why not have it lead to plot advancement? It seems like a more believable way for an "investigation" to go.


I suppose the proxy is often used to nudge the audience and/or protagonist in a certain direction. The downside of hiding clues someone for the audience to endlessly pour over is that, you know, they might not?
_________________
Probably the first Slendervlog to reference Grindr.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:29 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
Posts: 2058
Quote:
This may be lame but it is how the kind of nutcase people who set weird puzzles while merrily murderering people tend to operate. They lack empathy so they don't see how someone not solving their puzzle means anything other than that they are super-dooper clever.


I'd say we're talking about a character like Kefka or the Joker, right? Well, in that case, they can obviously be quite successful, as per the previous examples. I just think it's a tricky archetype to use because, while they can come across as intimidating, they might instead come across as shallow, unmotivated, & unoriginal.

Also, from a purely subjective standpoint, I generally prefer the opposite--an antagonist who is composed & calculating.

Quote:

Yeah, this does suck. At least Masky nutted Jay in the dick that one time.


In general, I find Totheark a lot more interesting now that he's started actually doing things, & not being such an add-on.

Quote:
I suppose the problem with puzzles is, why set them at all?


It makes slightly more sense if you have a 3rd party that you have to hide the message from.

Quote:
I suppose the proxy is often used to nudge the audience and/or protagonist in a certain direction. The downside of hiding clues someone for the audience to endlessly pour over is that, you know, they might not?


Only flaw I can think of is that maybe I haven't properly accounted for the size of the audience. With a large enough fanbase, pretty much everything is going to be analyzed at some point, & in the unlikely chance that it isn't, you can always rewrite yourself out of the hole.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:19 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 1 of 3 [33 Posts]   Goto page: 1, 2, 3 Next
View previous topicView next topic
 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Slender Man Mythos
Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
You cannot post calendar events in this forum



Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group