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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Slender Man Mythos
Slender Man Games Blocked On Steam
Moderators: ChildOfAtom, Cougar Draven, DavFlamerock, Dixie_Wolf, ndemeter
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C.K.DexterHaven
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Joined: 25 Feb 2012
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Location: The Universe

 		Slender Man Games Blocked On Steam
Formerly "Victor Surge Sells Rights To Slender Man?"
I'm a close follower and supporter of the (until recently) upcoming Slender Man game from Shadowshifters, Slenderman Tales: The Orphanage. I say "until recently" because they recently had to change the antagonist to an original character, The Huntsman. The reason they gave was that the character of the Slender Man had been copyrighted.
Quote:
Our understanding is that Victor Surge copyrighted the name, and has since sold the options rights to someone else. Not only is Steam - quite rightly - not prepared to Greenlight anything if rights issues are unresolved, but also Slenderman content developers would be at permanent risk of legal action at any time in the future no matter what other platform they distributed on.
While I felt nothing but admiration and respect for Shadowshifters for rising to the challenge and creating a new character, I also felt that I had to find out more about this. I was able to find several articles on the subject, as the copyright caused another game to go into legal limbo. Here's some articles on the subject. http://kotaku.com/5960579/valve-blocks-slenderman-indie-game-from-steam-due-to-copyright-concerns, http://www.joystiq.com/2012/11/14/faceless-slender-man-stalks-blocks-greenlights-top-game-from

A little more research, and I found that Victor Surge has sold apparently sold the rights to an as-of-yet unnamed third party. So far, there is no more information than this.

This is naturally a major concern. What does this mean for the mythos? Blogs and vlogs will still be around, but if someone wanted to follow in the footsteps of Marble Hornets and sell DVDs, or someone came up with a revolutionary idea for a Slender Man game? And, does this mean that now instead of a larger mythos, all these blogs and vlogs have been legally reduced to fanfiction? It honestly seems a little degrading, considering all the hard work we put into them.

Discuss and respond accordingly. And if this thread is somehow not according to guidelines (which I have read) then lock it, or ask me to delete it.

[EDIT] Thanks to Shaoken for the new information and the links. I probably should have done it myself in the first place, but because I'm an idiot, I went and made a topic. If anyone thinks this should be locked, go ahead and speak their mind.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:48 pm
Last edited by C.K.DexterHaven on Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SaigoSentinel
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Joined: 18 Sep 2012
Posts: 193

 		Re: Victor Surge Sells Rights To Slender Man?
A legit concern
C.K.DexterHaven wrote:
I'm a close follower and supporter of the (until recently) upcoming Slender Man game from Shadowshifters, Slenderman Tales: The Orphanage. I say "until recently" because they recently had to change the antagonist to an original character, The Huntsman. The reason they gave was that the character of the Slender Man had been copyrighted.
Quote:
Our understanding is that Victor Surge copyrighted the name, and has since sold the options rights to someone else. Not only is Steam - quite rightly - not prepared to Greenlight anything if rights issues are unresolved, but also Slenderman content developers would be at permanent risk of legal action at any time in the future no matter what other platform they distributed on.
While I felt nothing but admiration and respect for Shadowshifters for rising to the challenge and creating a new character, I also felt that I had to find out more about this. I was able to find several articles on the subject, as the copyright caused another game to go into legal limbo. Here's some articles on the subject. http://kotaku.com/5960579/valve-blocks-slenderman-indie-game-from-steam-due-to-copyright-concerns, http://www.joystiq.com/2012/11/14/faceless-slender-man-stalks-blocks-greenlights-top-game-from

A little more research, and I found that Victor Surge has sold apparently sold the rights to an as-of-yet unnamed third party. So far, there is no more information than this.

This is naturally a major concern. What does this mean for the mythos? Blogs and vlogs will still be around, but if someone wanted to follow in the footsteps of Marble Hornets and sell DVDs, or someone came up with a revolutionary idea for a Slender Man game? And, does this mean that now instead of a larger mythos, all these blogs and vlogs have been legally reduced to fanfiction? It honestly seems a little degrading, considering all the hard work we put into them.

Discuss and respond accordingly. And if this thread is somehow not according to guidelines (which I have read) then lock it, or ask me to delete it.


I agree that it seems like all of the hard work so many of us have put into the mythos will be degraded to mere fanfiction. I mean, TECHNICALLY it's Victor Surge's concept, but it should still be free domain, since so much of what it IS now is because of us, the fans.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:57 pm
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TheArmadaBledd
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Joined: 31 Mar 2011
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Location: Parker City, Indiana

 		The first guy who spoke of a large hairy man creature has no more claim on bigfoot than Surge does on Slenderman. He can copyright a name, sure, but it has gone so far beyond Surge that it's ridiculous. So I'm not too terribly worried.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:17 pm
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C.K.DexterHaven
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Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 139
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TheArmadaBledd wrote:
The first guy who spoke of a large hairy man creature has no more claim on bigfoot than Surge does on Slenderman. He can copyright a name, sure, but it has gone so far beyond Surge that it's ridiculous. So I'm not too terribly worried.
You're probably right. The Mythos will live on, regardless.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:13 pm
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nesferatuzero
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Joined: 06 May 2012
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 		It's there any more info of this legal stuff for the slenderman? Because my research have shown that the slenderman and the other creepypasta, except for the video game related stuff are pseudo-public domain. It was created by many different artists. So I wish to know more about it.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:33 pm
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coopthetent
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Joined: 26 Nov 2012
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 		Who did Victor Surge sell the rights to? This doesn't please me.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:52 pm
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Shaoken
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Joined: 16 Jul 2012
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nesferatuzero wrote:
It's there any more info of this legal stuff for the slenderman? Because my research have shown that the slenderman and the other creepypasta, except for the video game related stuff are pseudo-public domain. It was created by many different artists. So I wish to know more about it.


Basically Victor Surge owns the actual copyright to Slender Man, but has been giving people the thumbs up to make games and junk when asked. However he also gave a third party the option to make a film based on Slender Man, and in this instance Valve is waiting for their okay before putting Slender Man games on their service, since they want to avoid a lengthy legal battle.

So it's not that this third party is blocking any other works being made, just that nobody has gotten ahold of them and Valve is being cautiaus and trying to avoid a potential lawsuit. The copyright itself still belongs to Victor Surge though, as both articles in the OP clearly state. So, the topic name itself is wrong and misleading.

EDIT: Since the OP also failed to actually provide any links to The Orphanage game's change (he instead linked to the problems facing Faceless), here's an article for your reading pleasure:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/120867-The-Huntsman-Comes-Calling

I actually don't mind this. We're seeing something new.

But onto the actual matter at hand, basically when it comes to making money, the option holder is the one who has the rights to liscence out the Slender Man. This would only affect works that are put up for sale, so free works like all the web series we enjoy watching aren't affected and would be protected under relevant laws.

Games are a tricky area though, since although legally people have the right to make free games and mods based on anything, in the past there are plenty of big companies that have threatened lawsuits to shut down plenty of mods and total conversions (MGM shutting down several Stargate mods springs to mind). So Valve is playing it safe and avoiding openning themselves up to a lawsuit because, even though they would win, it could easily cost a lot of money depending on who was suing them.

In terms of the option holder, apparantly all it takes is to get into contact with them and getting some documents signed (probably a "we agree to not try and make a profit off of our game/mod" wavier) and Valve's happy to distribute, it's just that the option holder isn't returning any calls at the moment.

As for Marble Hornets, since they would have to have gotten Surge's okay before they sold the first DVD, they would be fine since they already have an agreement with him.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:54 pm
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C.K.DexterHaven
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Quote:
So it's not that this third party is blocking any other works being made, just that nobody has gotten ahold of them and Valve is being cautiaus and trying to avoid a potential lawsuit. The copyright itself still belongs to Victor Surge though, as both articles in the OP clearly state. So, the topic name itself is wrong and misleading

Thanks for the new info. This copyright stuff is pretty confusing to me, and I'm kicking myself now for not reading the article a bit more.
[EDIT] I'm changing the topic to be about the blockage of Slender Man games from steam, since it seems to be a pretty hot topic right now, unless you think I should lock or delete it. Also, maybe we'll need to make a subforum for the Huntsman eventually (hey, it could happen.)! I too am quite pleased to have a new entiy to be scared of.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:55 pm
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Baronness
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 		OH NO!!! OH NONO NO NO NON OONONONONONO OH NO OHNO OH NO NOHOOH;HOHFKJALDS.,MXZ

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:06 pm
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C.K.DexterHaven
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Baronness wrote:
OH NO!!! OH NONO NO NO NON OONONONONONO OH NO OHNO OH NO NOHOOH;HOHFKJALDS.,MXZ
To all those who have similar reactions to this, the creators of the game have said that even if they can't release the game on steam, they'll release it somewhere else. Last post I'll make here unless I absolutely need to respond to something.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:09 pm
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Baronness
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C.K.DexterHaven wrote:
Baronness wrote:
OH NO!!! OH NONO NO NO NON OONONONONONO OH NO OHNO OH NO NOHOOH;HOHFKJALDS.,MXZ
To all those who have similar reactions to this, the creators of the game have said that even if they can't release the game on steam, they'll release it somewhere else. Last post I'll make here unless I absolutely need to respond to something.


You mean well. But I did not.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:22 pm
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fezstudios
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 		I actually asked the same question on the greenlight page. I'm not really woried about the whole thing (plus, "The Huntsman" is kind of an awesome character).

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:51 pm
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TopherRPGnet
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 		Just to interject some clarity: you CANNOT copyright a name. You cannot copyright a character. You cannot copyright a concept.

You CAN copyright a specific work. Victor Surge absolutely has the copyright on his original photomanipulations, and on the nanofiction that he posted with them. He'd be within his rights to invoke copyright law on anybody who reproduced those specific stories or those specific images without his permission.

What's more, everyone else has copyright on their own works. The Marble Hornets team holds the copyright on Marble Hornets. Adam holds the copyright on TribeTwelve. It's automatic - when you create a work, you hold the copyright on it and can prevent others from reproducing it.

You CAN trademark a character, but trademark and copyright are two very different things. As far as I am aware, no-one has trademarked the Slender Man, and anyone trying (including Mr Surge) would have a really hard time of it, because one of the requirements of a trademark is that it *must* be aggressively defended, or you will lose it. Any decent IP lawyer is going to look at Slender Man, see that 87 million different people have used the character in their own copyrighted works and that nobody has ever tried to prevent anyone else from using it, and back away swiftly with a "you're not paying me enough to get involved in THAT mess."

Specific works have been, are, and will continue to be protected by copyright law. But the character himself is effectively public domain, and will continue to be so unless we see someone with a hell of a lot of money and influence enter the scene. And even then I still think the chances of a successful trademark are very low.

(not an IP lawyer, just related to one)
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The Ultimate Slender Man Mythos Playlist

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:44 am
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nesferatuzero
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 		Thank you, i completely forgot about the difference of copyright and trademark.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:28 am
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Fotzepolitic
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 		My understanding is that it only becomes an issue when you start trying to make money from the thing, anyway. Maybe someone can clarify that.
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Probably the first Slendervlog to reference Grindr.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:02 am
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