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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Slender Man Mythos
Slender Man Games Blocked On Steam
Moderators: ChildOfAtom, Cougar Draven, DavFlamerock, Dixie_Wolf, ndemeter
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TopherRPGnet
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Fotzepolitic wrote:
My understanding is that it only becomes an issue when you start trying to make money from the thing, anyway. Maybe someone can clarify that.


Not true, actually. If I were to go to some random slenderblog, copy the text of any given entry, and then go post it on my blog without permission and without attributing it to its original author, I'd be violating copyright even if I wasn't charging money for it.

Similarly, active trademarks must be defended against *all* infringement, not just infringement intended to turn a profit.

(Trademark gets quibbly when you bring in stuff like Fair Use and satire, but - as an example - there's a reason porn producers can make stuff like "Not Superman and Lois Lane" with a guy in a red and blue costume, but will get their asses sued if they put the actual S-shield on that costume's chest: satire is one thing, but that image is trademarked, and DC/Warner is legally obligated to protect it.)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:28 am
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Cougar DravenModerator
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TopherRPGnet wrote:
Fotzepolitic wrote:
My understanding is that it only becomes an issue when you start trying to make money from the thing, anyway. Maybe someone can clarify that.


Not true, actually. If I were to go to some random slenderblog, copy the text of any given entry, and then go post it on my blog without permission and without attributing it to its original author, I'd be violating copyright even if I wasn't charging money for it.

Similarly, active trademarks must be defended against *all* infringement, not just infringement intended to turn a profit.

(Trademark gets quibbly when you bring in stuff like Fair Use and satire, but - as an example - there's a reason porn producers can make stuff like "Not Superman and Lois Lane" with a guy in a red and blue costume, but will get their asses sued if they put the actual S-shield on that costume's chest: satire is one thing, but that image is trademarked, and DC/Warner is legally obligated to protect it.)


Thus the difference between "Slenderman" and "Splendourman" in a hypothetical trademark situation. Neil Cicierega would be fine. Adam might not be.

(The MH crew would be fine, as they've made it clear, and did so before this was even an issue, that their version is known as "the Operator", and isn't "Slenderman" at all.)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:58 pm
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SignerJ
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 		Well, I don't think that Adam has every called Slender Man "Slenderman." Rather, I think that he has consistently referred to his a Der Grofman or The Keeper, thus saving him from trademarks.

StanFrederickBTS, however, is in a different boat entirely.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:05 am
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TopherRPGnet
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 		The trademark issue is all hypothetical anyway, since (again AFAIK, and I admit I haven't visited the appropriate government sites lately) nobody has actually attempted to register a trademark on Slender Man, and doing so would raise all sorts of questions about why the person attempting registration had allowed hundreds of "infringing" uses of "his" trademark without any attempt to protect it.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:03 am
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cochinosanchez
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 		Okay, as a man who took legal business classes, I will voice my opinion and knowledge on the matter. Now first off, did Victor Surge create the name slender man and was he the one who drew/made the image of slender man?
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:47 am
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TheLonelyLemon
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cochinosanchez wrote:
Okay, as a man who took legal business classes, I will voice my opinion and knowledge on the matter. Now first off, did Victor Surge create the name slender man and was he the one who drew/made the image of slender man?


Yep, he made the name "The Slender Man" and all of the original photos. I'm not sure that's actually able to be copyrighted though.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:04 am
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cochinosanchez
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TheLonelyLemon wrote:
cochinosanchez wrote:
Okay, as a man who took legal business classes, I will voice my opinion and knowledge on the matter. Now first off, did Victor Surge create the name slender man and was he the one who drew/made the image of slender man?


Yep, he made the name "The Slender Man" and all of the original photos. I'm not sure that's actually able to be copyrighted though.


Once you make something tangible (physical), it's copyrighted to you. Simple as that. As long as you have proof you designed or made it, then you're the complete owner, until you officially declare your creation to be public domain.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:18 am
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TheLonelyLemon
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cochinosanchez wrote:
TheLonelyLemon wrote:
cochinosanchez wrote:
Okay, as a man who took legal business classes, I will voice my opinion and knowledge on the matter. Now first off, did Victor Surge create the name slender man and was he the one who drew/made the image of slender man?


Yep, he made the name "The Slender Man" and all of the original photos. I'm not sure that's actually able to be copyrighted though.


Once you make something tangible (physical), it's copyrighted to you. Simple as that. As long as you have proof you designed or made it, then you're the complete owner, until you officially declare your creation to be public domain.


Well The Slender Man isn't tangible (and I thank the heavens every day for this) so does that count? You seem to know a lot about this kind of stuff so I'm asking you about it all. Razz

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:33 am
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Carnahan
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 		Nope. Think of the usage. Will they be able to get a copyright? Perhaps. Will they be able to enforce it on anyone's existing work? No, as they've established for a few years now.

Any series will be fine. They were first movers. Maybe this game is an unfortunate casualty, as it has obviously gathered some support here and I would hate to see good work go to waste, but, that's the game we play with copyright in the Western world.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:42 am
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cochinosanchez
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Carnahan wrote:
Nope. Think of the usage. Will they be able to get a copyright? Perhaps. Will they be able to enforce it on anyone's existing work? No, as they've established for a few years now.

Any series will be fine. They were first movers. Maybe this game is an unfortunate casualty, as it has obviously gathered some support here and I would hate to see good work go to waste, but, that's the game we play with copyright in the Western world.


et me tell you the story about the apple lawsuit with samsung over petty product design....and won the case. This is pretty damn close. Victor made slender man and the name. Anything affiliated with slender man is associated with him.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:43 am
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lachesis
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cochinosanchez wrote:

et me tell you the story about the apple lawsuit with samsung over petty product design....and won the case. This is pretty damn close. Victor made slender man and the name. Anything affiliated with slender man is associated with him.


Slenderman falls under a totally different category than product design, as he is not a consumable object, much more to do with art legalities.
AND! Since so much of the 'canon' was actually developed by people who AREN'T victor surge, I doubt Victor Surge could even block it's usage if he wanted to.

Is it possible that this game company wanted the ability to copyright their game, and the creatures in it? That clearly wouldn't be possible in this case, and maybe is the source of all the confusion.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:27 am
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TopherRPGnet
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cochinosanchez wrote:
did Victor Surge create the name slender man


Doesn't matter. You can't copyright a name.

If I publish a novel featuring a character named Batman, I guarantee you that DC/Warner isn't going to come after me for copyright infringement. They're going to drop onto me like a ton of bricks for trademark infringement. And trademark and copyright are *not the same thing.* Copyright is easy and automatic - you create a work of art, you own it. Trademark is *not* automatic. It has to be claimed, granted, and then actively defended.

EDIT: Just for fun, I just looked up "slender man" in the trademarks database. There is one mark by that name, registered in August 2012 by AFG Media Ltd. in the UK. The goods & services covered by the mark are: " one-piece costumes used for comedic, theatrical, performance, masquerade and similar dramatic purposes; fancy dress." In other words, "slender man" is the name of a particular costume they sell. There is no mark in the database for "slender man" as a protected IP character or image.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:40 am
Last edited by TopherRPGnet on Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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Carnahan
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 		The Apple lawsuit is apples and oranges (#zing).

I can promise you that any organization trying to "claim" slondors will not have nearly enough money to actively defend and bring such a defense to trial, as in the case of Apple v. Samsung, etc. They won't.

And, if they do, then the exposure to the individual series alone will be so great, that it wouldn't matter at that point. (Basically, if Warner Bros. tried to rustle jimmies against any of the Big series, the exposure and ridiculousness would Streisand effect the big company to the point of the project being moot).

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:48 am
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Strontium
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 		What makes me wonder is why this, and not any of then multitudes of other slender games? I wonder is Surge is just catching on.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:23 pm
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Tharol
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 		Likes on basic this block maybe they will change.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:18 pm
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