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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » ARG: Ares Station
[SOLVED] job application puzzle
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LordKinbote
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Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 261

JoeUser wrote:
Well that's not actually true. Key lengths for Vigenere don't have to be exact factors of the length of the message. You keep repeating the key until you run out of plaintext.

What deadman is talking about is using frequency analysis to predict a probable length of the key. You look at repeating series of letters.

Of course, none of what I just wrote actually helps find a key, but I didn't want you stuck on only two possible key lengths.


Unfortunately, the message is waaay too short to expect the kind of repeating series of letters one would need to find the key to a Vigenere cipher. If it is a Vigenere, and it may very well be, we need to actually determine the key from the clue.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:01 pm
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Ehsan
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Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 992

There is SOME sort of pattern..

breaking the text into groups of 5 letters..

Original: ROT: Becomes

w i h a l
6 6 6 6 6
c o n g r


b w x m o
25 23 23 25 12
a t u l a


a l r h z
19 23 23 6 19
t i o n s


f v x b b
19 19 23 6 25
y o u h a


c h j i g
19 23 ? ? ?
v e ? ? ?


"Congratulations, you have"


Others:

w h w k h
23 23 23 23 23
t e t h e


h z u c l
6 6 6 6 6
n f a i r


u v a u l
19 19 19 19 19
n o t n e

j t p v u
25 25 25 25 25
i s o u t



Notice a pattern? Everything is ROT 6, 19, 23, or 25... with the exception of one ROT 12....

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:39 pm
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ItWasntMeISwear
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Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 503
Location: Illannoys, USA

p

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:21 pm
Last edited by ItWasntMeISwear on Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ehsan
Entrenched

Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 992

My current guess: "Congratulations, you have completed your.."

Here's my super-duper-decrypto-matic worksheet..

You can try out different ROT values and see what you get.. it's very trial & error but I'm out of ideas because I can't find a pattern, and have no idea what cfa. means.
job.xls
Description 
xls

 Download 
Filename  job.xls 
Filesize  32KB 
Downloaded  386 Time(s) 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:08 pm
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jbd
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 295

What job did you apply for? Did it have to do with biology?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:29 pm
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jbd
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 295

The reason I ask is:
a.) The applicant needs to be familiar with "Genetech protocols"

b.) The only references I see popping up for "Canis familiaris" referred to as 'CFA' are various genome projects, such as the dog genome project here:
http://www.fhcrc.org/science/dog_genome/

c.) This could be a "test" for job applicants to make sure they actually know "Genetech protocols".

Just out of curiousity, I tried rotting with the letters A, C, G, and T. I am presuming it would be a mix of these.

A: XJIBMCXYNPBMSIAGWYCCDIKJHKTGVGHGWCVXIXLIKKCPOIAVDMA
QXGYXZELOQTHWTAQWTKJRADVHVVMSRESYIVWBVMRRVSZKUQWV
INHVMBQCPNOVBC

C: ZLKDOEZAPRDOUKCIYAEEFKMLJMVIXIJIYEXZKZNKMMERQKCXFOCS
ZIAZBGNQSVJYVCSYVMLTCFXJXXOUTGUAKXYDXOTTXUBMWSYXKPJ
XODSERPQXDE

G: GSRKVLGHWYKVBRJPFHLLMRTSQTCPEPQPFLEGRGURTTLYXRJEMVJZG
PHGINUXZCQFCJZFCTSAJMEQEEVBANBHREFKEVAAEBITDZFERWQEV
KZLYWXEKL

T: AMLEPFABQSEPVLDJZBFFGLNMKNWJYJKJZFYALAOLNNFSRLDYGPDTAJ
BACHORTWKZWDTZWNMUDGYKYYPVUHVBLYZEYPUUYVCNXTZYLQKY
PETFSQRYEF

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:57 pm
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ellipses
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Joined: 17 Nov 2003
Posts: 138
Location: Location Location

This is surely it! Good spot - it simply must be something to do with chromosome 16 (CFA. 16). But, dang, I just can't find the answer - and now I have to go to bed. I bet its solved by the time I get up again...

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:57 pm
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deadman
Boot

Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 57

Ehasan may have directed us into the right path. Using only the four rotations he pointed out appeared to be common: 6, 19, 23, 25 - I can get this message so far

Congratulutions (sic), you have completed your path...

Now, I'm the first to admit there could be a lot of random chance to this. that fair phrase we looked at before could be, with only those 4 letters, fair, wave or save. Without a key, I'll never know. But I find it curious we are finding references to DNA, with only 4 bases. So perhaps, the gene in question is the code. I don't think the pattern I used to get the above phrase repeats itself later in the message. I wouldn't have posted this at all, except the fact I could get completed out of there seemed like it warranted a post. But it's all pretty grey. I mean "your p" (original text is FVBUW) could also be "count" with these rotations. There are a lot of possibilities. Count doesn't seem to make sense obviously, but...

Here are rotational values to get above string.

6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 25, 23, 23, 25, 6, 19, 23, 23, 6, 19, 19, 19, 23, 6, 25, 19, 23, 19, 6, 6, 6, 19, 25, 25, 25, 23, 19, 19, 19, 23, 19, 19, 23, 23

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:03 pm
Last edited by deadman on Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:19 pm; edited 2 times in total
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deadman
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Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 57

I should point at that those four numbers, any way you rotate them, never equal A. C, G, and T at the same same. A lot of Google searching (and even other search engines) failed to find any gene squences that match up with what I have above.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:06 pm
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Lysithea
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Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Posts: 468
Location: Australia

Great job everyone. Smile I think this must be the right track because the letters G,C,A and T can correspond with the numbers 19,23,25 and 6.
Explanation:
To encipher a message using ROT A (or ROT 1) you go forward in the alphabet by one letter, for each letter in the message. To get the original message back again you go backwards by one letter. You can think of this as ROT(-1) or ROT(+25).
So if the message was enciphered using the key letters G, C, A and T, we should look at the values (26-7=19), (26-3=23), (26-1=25) and (26-20=6).
This is similar to the way that the "A similar thought" puzzle was enciphered using the keyword CRYSTL.
Now we need to keep searching for the matching gene sequence.
_________________
"Some people grow into their dreams instead of out of them." - Miles Vorkosigan

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 12:44 am
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Ehsan
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Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 992

That's it.. we found the key..


If you ROT the OPPOSITE way, the numbers we have make sense.. (for example, 19 becomes 26-19)

ROT 25 = ROT 1 = A
ROT 23 = ROT 3 = C
ROT 19 = ROT 6 = G
ROT 6 = ROT 20 = T

So the sequence we have begins with:

TTTTT ACCAN GCCTG GGCTA ..

Which I presume is part of a genome sequence for canis familiaris, referenced somewhere on the web with ID 16176.

Now somebody find the full sequence and we've got this solved.

EDIT: My first trout... Trout Oh well, that was a good track record.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 12:58 am
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ItWasntMeISwear
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Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 503
Location: Illannoys, USA

p

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:24 am
Last edited by ItWasntMeISwear on Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jbd
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 295

My science-puzzle-helping wife reports that TTTTT is a stop code while AAAAA would be the start code. So once found, the gene sequence is probably in backward.

Beh. Still need to look some things up. Be back later.

Edit: Ok, TTTTT is a stop code, so the original supposition that the code will be backwards is probably correct.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:17 am
Last edited by jbd on Sat Mar 26, 2005 4:42 am; edited 2 times in total
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LordKinbote
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Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 261

jbd wrote:
My science-puzzle-helping wife reports that TTTTT is a stop code while AAAAA would be the start code. So once found, the gene sequence is probably in backward.


Well, there goes time I will never get back...

Edit: Wait, no. Would it really be so hard that the PM would expect us to know to read backwards once we find this elusive genome?

While I like the idea of using a genome sequence as a one time pad in theory, I feel we weren't given enough information to actually FIND this sequence. A puzzle isn't fun if you know exactly how to solve it but still can't.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:19 am
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Ehsan
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Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 992

I really thought this was it:

Ensembl Dog Genome Browser

Notice the results: Canis familiaris, Cfa.#

Unfortunately Cfa. 16176 does not exist!!

This is frustrating..

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:55 am
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