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 Forum index » Meta » General META Discussion
Why do players continue to play inferior games?
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Ehsan
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Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 992

Why do players continue to play inferior games?

Post #900 causes one to look back at all the time spent on these forums and delve into some meta Smile


Why do players continue to play inferior games?
(a.k.a. Crappy ARG Empathy and My Sympathies to Audioslave thread Wink)


First, let's get the loaded question out of the way. Obviously asking about inferior games implies that there are inferior PMs, which leads to hurt feelings and things being taken personally. That's not why I am asking this, and the issue pertaining to Puppet Master and volatile games from the creator's point of view has been covered elsewhere.

My question is about a particular phenomena which continue to amaze me till this day. Every time a new "potential" ARG comes up, there is no shortage of players who jump in and show interest in what--I strongly believe--is an obviously inferior game which stands almost no chance in holding its own ground or even continuing to end.

Some examples for illustrative purposes only: Pirate Shrubbery - Got Your Dog - Scapegoat_2006 - Alice in Wonderland - Josh, Box

This is in no way a complete list, but just examples of the kind of games I'm talking about. Let's leave aside why the Puppet Master created those games or why they couldn't follow through with them.

Being a PM is tough, and I hold no grudges except for the fact that PMs continue to remain anonymous and silently let their failed games whither away without even an apology. That is a separate issue and I have long held on to the notion that PMs should reveal their identity to the uF administration if they want their trailhead to be posted on the forums. But that's a different story altogether with many tangled curtains.

What I am interested in is understanding why players gave them any attention at all.

Every one of these games shares comments such as these from players: Oooh, I'm in! - This looks very interesting. - I signed up, hope I get contacted soon!

*Major Cringe*

I just don't get it. When I saw those games--as soon as I saw the first post I could immediately tell, to a 99% certainty level, that it's not worth my time. Yet the support posts keep coming in. Players 'join' that game. They put it in their sig. They wait for the character on AIM. I don't get it.


To me, there are tell-tale signs that a game is not worth my time. I understand the allure of GAIMs, and that not everybody is looking for a big blockbuster game. But I also insist that a game which uses IM as the primary medium for communication cannot exhibit any signs of quality and has a huge potential for implosion. Sorry, but I don't get excited when a character suddenly disappears after they type **CONNECTION LOST** into AIM.

What makes it harder for me to understand, is that the support comes from old players. People who have been on these boards for months, and almost always gone through a previous implosion. If it was new players hopping on board with full support, I'll understand.

Don't we all know the signs by now?

- They have a blog which is full of spelling mistakes.
- Relying on IM as the main communications method.
- Starting the game with puzzles and the word "help".
- Someone gets kidnapped.
- The PM spent less than $10 on the game. EVERYBODY can afford at least $10 to get a domain and hosting. No excuses here. Seriously if the PM doesn't even bother spending ten bucks, why are you wasting 10 seconds of your life on their game?

So why, after all that, does someone come in to join the thread, and hope they get contacted?


I'd also like to add a reservation I had about posting this... because it immediatly brings up the issue of grassroots games. I'm all for grassroots games, and in fact am opposed to the restrictive nature of corporate ARGs which are constrained by the client's whims and requirements. But of course there is good and bad in both models.

What I don't want to imply by this post is that grassroots games are not worth it. I only call the above examples ARGs because that is what the creator intended them to be, and I respect the effort they put into it because I understand how hard it could be. But in my strictly defined gaming dictionary, they are not ARGs.

Real Grassroot ARGs, on the other hand, have demonstrated tremendous quality and extraordinary game mechanics... and I will continue to chant Metacortechs till the end of time. So please don't turn your back on grassroot games and "only play big company games", because there are amazing grassroot games out there--but trust me, AIM and blogspot aren't the way to find them.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:19 am
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Phaedra
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Re: Why do players continue to play inferior games?

Ehsan wrote:
First, let's get the loaded question out of the way. Obviously asking about inferior games implies that there are inferior PMs, which leads to hurt feelings and things being taken personally. That's not why I am asking this, and the issue pertaining to Puppet Master and volatile games from the creator's point of view has been covered elsewhere.


Two points I think are worth making here, one from each end of the game timeline.

1) I think it's been established that games implode for a lot of different reasons. Sometimes, yes, it's because the PMs are arrogant and not particularly talented, sometimes it's because they're immature and impatient, sometimes it's because of infighting on the PM team (although that could probably be subsumed into the previous category), and sometimes it's for completely valid reasons beyond the PMs' control.

2) A crappy launch, theoretically at least, does not mean that the game won't necessarily develop into something better.

So, while there are generally good indicators when a game's a bad bet for completion, hope springs eternal, which I think is the main reason people continue to play bad games (well, that and boredom Wink ).

Ehsan wrote:
What I am interested in is understanding why players gave them any attention at all.

Every one of these games shares comments such as these from players: Oooh, I'm in! - This looks very interesting. - I signed up, hope I get contacted soon!


Yeah, and I've noticed that the worse the game appears likely to be, the more people that for some reason feel the need to announce that 1) the game looks good to them and 2) they're playing it.

Why? It's too early to tell about #1, and #2 is obvious from the fact that you're posting.

I remember a few people posted that "OMG I AM PLAYING THIS!" for LCP, but for the most part, with the large games, people just start playing.

So yeah, that's a bit of a mystery to me, too. I tend to assume it's a type of "magical thinking." If we say the game looks good, the game will be good.

Ehsan wrote:
Don't we all know the signs by now?

- They have a blog which is full of spelling mistakes.
- Relying on IM as the main communications method.
- Starting the game with puzzles and the word "help".
- Someone gets kidnapped.
- The PM spent less than $10 on the game. EVERYBODY can afford at least $10 to get a domain and hosting. No excuses here. Seriously if the PM doesn't even bother spending ten bucks, why are you wasting 10 seconds of your life on their game?


I'd add to your list:

- There are suspicious posts which look like PM shilling. That's enough to make me doubt the game's quality from the outset.

Most recently, syst3m.co.uk had a series of shilly posts from an individual whose grammar and syntax were practically identical to that in the emails from the PM. (And I rather suspect this was him as well.)

The claims made in the email seemed over-the-top to me, but when it looked like the PM had begun shilling for his own game on the forums, I started having doubts about the existence of the sponsorship.

Before that, if asked my opinion on the game, I would have told you that syst3m looked to be better than the average grassroots game, although not on the level of professional-quality grassroots games like Metacortechs and Urban Hunt. But seeing what appears to be PM shilling changed my gut reaction enough that now I feel like it's got a better chance of imploding than concluding.

Seeing shilling is enough to kill any chance I'll play a game. I frankly can't understand why anyone would play a game in which the PM doesn't have enough faith to run the game without trying to cheat.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:04 pm
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audioslave
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Joined: 25 Sep 2005
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Cool


Well let me just say, I'm finally becoming to the point where I'm so jagged that I've been holding out for a coperate game, at least to reinstall my belif that ARGs do acctually finish (sometimes)

Rolling Eyes

I'm still a big fan of grass routes games, but at the same time I'm becoming weary of these run-of-the-mill PMs who jump ship because they get bored with the idea


Got Your Dog never acctually intrested me, that much, I only stuck around because the PM contacted me. Cured PM...

Scapegoat looked like it had some potentinal to me, it looked like the PM had really put some time into it.

Pirate Shrubbery looked like fun, what can I say...

the two games that truely killed my faith on the average grass routes games were Jack Harrison and Angelo Beckett (I'm fairly convinced they're by the same person)

both appealed to my intrests, so I joined up, expecting little. I got more than I expected with Jack Harrison, but I soon became worried when I saw that the PM had little control over their own game, especially when the players started acting out. I leave for a week and the PM announces that there isn't enough player paricipation so he pulls up his routes and leaves. I found myself thinking "get back here little man and finish my ARG! Evil or Very Mad

Angelo Beckett was another nice idea (and it promised cash, which did sound awfully suspicious Rolling Eyes ), I was a bit worried at the obvious lack of home page for it, yet I continued on, hoping for the best ("wow! they even have a phone number!") but once I saw the MySpace I did a mental groan. Of course, the game fizzled out with no word from the PM

anybody know when the next 42 game is comming out? Very Happy
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:16 pm
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Varin
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A specific phrase comes to mind - "To each his own" Cool Smile

This isn't a new phenomenon that is unique to ARGs. Why do people watch crappy television shows that will most likely be cancelled?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:43 pm
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rowan
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Joined: 12 Apr 2004
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Varin wrote:
Why do people watch crappy television shows that will most likely be cancelled?

Because you don't feel as bad when the crappy shows get cancelled? There's nothing worse than getting really involved with an excellent show, only to find out that it's getting cancelled because the ratings aren't there since the network cant decide when, where and how to show the series correctly.

I've gotten to the point that, while I feel bad that newbies can get sucked into these games that either implode or just kinda fade away, I have no feelings of remorse for the players that have a game or twelve under their belts. It's kinda like drinking. The first time you get drunk, you might not understand how much you're gonna pay with a hangover the next day. People will warn you, but until you experience yourself, you're just not gonna know. After that, it's your own fault if you drink too much (or get involved in a game with a less than trustworthy PM), and you just have to pay the price that comes with that.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:38 pm
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ancalime
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In my case, it's the market's fault.

What're available are "inferior games." I'd be playing better games if they were being launched. I do lose hope in the MySpace- and AIM-heavy crap very quickly, but if those are the games that keep getting started up, those are the ones I'll keep at least trying out.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:50 pm
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rowan
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ancalime wrote:
In my case, it's the market's fault.


To me, this is almost a chicken-or-the-egg scenerio. If no one played "inferior" games, would PMs keep producing them? Are we perpetuating the problem simply by accepting that this is the way things are?

Going back to the tv analogy, if I watch a crappy television show just because there is nothing on, what am I really saying to the networks? Wouldn't my opinion on the show be heard more clearly if I choose nothing? Or, are tv shows just put out there based on fickle whims and it doesn't really matter at all what I like or watch?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:19 pm
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ancalime
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rowan wrote:

To me, this is almost a chicken-or-the-egg scenerio. If no one played "inferior" games, would PMs keep producing them? Are we perpetuating the problem simply by accepting that this is the way things are?


I'm happy to see bad games go, preferably after I've quit them, and when it comes down to it I spend more time and energy on the games I think are better, but if there's nothing better to do I'll play a bad game just because it's there.

Quote:
Going back to the tv analogy, if I watch a crappy television show just because there is nothing on, what am I really saying to the networks? Wouldn't my opinion on the show be heard more clearly if I choose nothing? Or, are tv shows just put out there based on fickle whims and it doesn't really matter at all what I like or watch?


I think ARGs are even more based on fickle whims than TV shows may or may not be, as games I've been driven out of (Kyle XY, Ocular) have flourished and games I've enjoyed have tanked, either because of regular implosion, extenuating circs, or whatever. It's harder for a TV show's continuing existence to be disrupted by the vagaries of fate; they need bigger vagaries.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:41 pm
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Phaedra
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rowan wrote:
Or, are tv shows just put out there based on fickle whims and it doesn't really matter at all what I like or watch?


No, they're based on sophisticated market analyses.

For example, Seinfeld was a show with good acting, good writing and it was a show about nothing.

So network executives decided that people must want shows about nothing, and made more of them.

Friends was a show about hot young people, with good acting, and good writing.

Obviously, people wanted more shows about hot young people.

This year, we have My Name Is Earl, and the Office, both of which feature good acting, good writing, and storylines about losers.

Obviously, people want more stories about losers. So that's what we'll get.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:45 pm
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rose
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I've been wondering the same thing "why do people play this game" about the LostExp game. I quit that a long time ago, got drawn back in only to remember all the reasons I left and quit again. At the request of some of my friends who are playing, I went to Times Square to try to find a glyph and I then went to an event to get a free candy bar.

Whenever I am in the chat room, people talk about how much they dislike this game and how poorly it is written, the commercials. etc. Same thing with the forums.

I don't blame people for following a game - once you start a game it can create its own addiction.

I don't think we can limit the question of "why people continue to play a game" to "grassroots games" any more than we can assume that every "commercial ARG" will be playable.

But I too am waiting for the next 4orty2wo game. I'm still playing PPC because the end is coming sometime soon and it is getting more interesting. Despite the amount of time that game has lasted, it is still quite easy to follow along and keep up. And I am looking into the comics for CTW2 - there are playable games out there, but people have to choose what they want.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:12 pm
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European Chris
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Quote:

For example, Seinfeld was a show with good acting, good writing and it was a show about nothing.


It was show show which claimed to be about nothing, but it was about the 'rules of society' which people live by. Which is why Curb works so well as an extention as it's about someone breaking these absurd little rules.

Both are quite brilliant.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:13 am
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Phaedra
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European Chris wrote:
Quote:

For example, Seinfeld was a show with good acting, good writing and it was a show about nothing.


It was show show which claimed to be about nothing, but it was about the 'rules of society' which people live by. Which is why Curb works so well as an extention as it's about someone breaking these absurd little rules.

Both are quite brilliant.


I was making a joke. Wink

The point of that post was that each of the shows I listed which became a craze for at least a year and spawned a host of imitators had in common good writing and good acting (or at least well-selected actors for each part). The network executives, when trying to figure out the "formula" that had made each show a success, chose to copy the content, rather than the quality.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:56 am
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catherwood
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Re: Why do players continue to play inferior games?

Phaedra wrote:
2) A crappy launch, theoretically at least, does not mean that the game won't necessarily develop into something better.

This reminds me of the logic of the faithful when it comes to crop circles. Just because *this* one turned out to be a fake, that doesn't mean the *next* one can't be real!
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:26 pm
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luke
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Phaedra wrote:

This year, we have My Name Is Earl, and the Office, both of which feature good acting, good writing, and storylines about losers.

Obviously, people want more stories about losers. So that's what we'll get.


I refuse to believe that The Office is about losers. Very Happy

Back to the topic though: I think that by playing these rightly-called (for the most part, anyways) "inferior" games, people get a sort of guilty pleasure. I know I do.

I think the fact of the matter is that one of the best parts of ARG's is the communication between players and characters. People get a sort of rush by talking to someone they know has secrets. What are they going to reveal? How can I gain their trust? Could I get another website out of them?

It's this small, euphoric high that drives some people to play these games. It's like filling up on dessert before the main course... only to find that the main course is steamed broccoli with a side helping of spam.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:02 am
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MageSteff
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Why do I jump on the band wagon when the initial trail head is not a spectacular piece of work?

Because it is darned difficult to come up with something that 1.) will actually get a random hit by an ARG player who tells others about it without it being the luck of the draw to be in the right place at the right time, 2.) to do it without coming dangerously close to breaking the "TINAG" feeling while still getting people into your universe.

My hope is that if the case is new or inexperienced PMs that at some point one does pick up the ball and run with it in a playable manner to a logical conclusion. Yes there is a very small chance of that actually happening, but who am I to pre-judge a new PM who is just learning the ropes. It may be that the PM will need to do a lot of trimming of what was planned in order to keep the main story line cohesive for a shorter run, but I would rather the new PMs see that I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on a new game because I just may miss a game that turned out to not be the the game with the biggest WOW factor, but still be a fun time to laugh and play with my friends.

I want new pms to know that I a willing to give a new PM some room to make early mistakes as they get their ARG feet under them. Having run (or attempted to run a game gives one a who new appreciation for those who do manage to run larger or longer lasting games, and perhaps makes one a little more lenient on the small flubs, if they learn from the critiques, and start to use spell checkers or have someone proofread for them.


Its the PMs who still don't get it after their game folds in an unsatisfactory manner that really makes me mad. Learning to take critiques, learning to separate which ones adress items one needs to correct and which ones address differences in style is an important life skill that can help one in other relationships, work, home, school. Learning how to pull apart something that didn't work and use it to make your next attempt run better is also handy.

Now if the PM has started the game but the story line hasn't moved and I have done everything within my power as a player to help it move along, then I will walk away from the game.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:04 pm
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