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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » ARG: Find the Lost Ring
[META] Theo's Goals and Ethics
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Khaos
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ariock wrote:
So you are discounting the entirety of the Codex based on one comment "We have a 1600-year advantage" from Theo to Ariadne. Seems like a lot of work for a bunch of red herrings.


I'm not discounting the codex. The codex talk about multiversal travel, about the multiverse limits and about ways to slow it down.
All of it is ONE source of information. Which may or may not be right and which was written fifty years ago.

On the other hand, we have an thousand years old organization, (It's not just Theo mail to Ariadne, we got clues of an Opposition force all along the olympics history from ancient to recent. That force may or may not be Theo as we now know it but still there was an opposition.) who claim that the only right way to slow down the multiverse collapse is to sacrifize a whole world. Letting the others leave longer.

There is no contradiction between the codex and Theo, it's just a matter of sizing the answer. Synchronizing and even RCC is, in the mind of Theo (as i undertand it), not enough to prevent a multiverse disaster. It just branch too quickly.
The destruction of a whole world would have much more impact and get the others world much more peaceful time. (Before the unescapble end)

Quote:
Another point. ALL of the people that Theo has recruited have been ANGRY at the time of recruitment. They would have done anything to lash out at the other worlds. Giving them a sweet lie about this being a noble sacrifice that, oh by the way, helps them betray their old friends just makes the bitterness easier to swallow.

This isn't sacrifice. It's spite.


Granted, the actual Theo senior member aren't the most altruist people to say the least. But we don't know every member of Theo (heck i am one, and if i get senior status one day, i still vote for the sacrifize), only 2 (3?) of them had clearly egoist motives.

And don't forget, Theo solution equals SUICIDE. If you're a bitter person who seeks revenge, you want everyone dead BUT you. That's not the case here.

EDIT : Just a side note. Am i the only one to defend Theo ethic ?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:36 am
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ariock
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Khaos wrote:
I'm not discounting the codex. The codex talk about multiversal travel, about the multiverse limits and about ways to slow it down.
All of it is ONE source of information. Which may or may not be right and which was written fifty years ago.


"may or may not be right." So what have you got from Theo? Show me their Codex.

This isn't merely ONE source of information. It is one source of information spread across the world [META]by our PMs[/META]. And you are treating it like it's more questionable than a postcard left by a thief.

Khaos wrote:
On the other hand, we have an thousand years old organization, (It's not just Theo mail to Ariadne, we got clues of an Opposition force all along the olympics history from ancient to recent. That force may or may not be Theo as we now know it but still there was an opposition.) who claim that the only right way to slow down the multiverse collapse is to sacrifize a whole world. Letting the others leave longer.


Our only other source of information is a second-hand explanation from James, who was obviously NOT a higher up of Theo. According to the Codex, the original games were stopped by people who thought that it offended the Gods. That's the reason Theo started.

Khaos wrote:
There is no contradiction between the codex and Theo, it's just a matter of sizing the answer. Synchronizing and even RCC is, in the mind of Theo (as i undertand it), not enough to prevent a multiverse disaster. It just branch too quickly.
The destruction of a whole world would have much more impact and get the others world much more peaceful time. (Before the unescapble end)

Show me the proof then. From what I just quoted in the Codex, RCC is the BEST POSSIBLE possibility. That JUST these worlds undergo RCC, otherwise ALL the worlds convert, destroying EVERY civiliaztion on EVERY world. I don't see the part where it says only our world will be sacrificed. Or Theo's guarantee that that is what will happen.

Khaos wrote:
Granted, the actual Theo senior member aren't the most altruist people to say the least. But we don't know every member of Theo (heck i am one, and if i get senior status one day, i still vote for the sacrifize), only 2 (3?) of them had clearly egoist motives.

And don't forget, Theo solution equals SUICIDE. If you're a bitter person who seeks revenge, you want everyone dead BUT you. That's not the case here.

Not to be a dick, but you're not part of the game, so YOUR reasons for joining are frankly irrelevant to the reasons the in-game characters joined. (James, Renata, Kentaro, all angry/crazy) And THAT is our best hint about the organization as we know it.

And sorry to put a fine point on this, but you joined Theo without knowing the actual reason for their existence, or who was in charge, and before we knew anything about them. How do you know Kentaro isn't in charge? You really know nothing about them. And what I've seen gives me no reason to believe what they've told us. They've provided no proof of anything. Nothing.
I mean seriously, nothing.
You don't know that they know everything that is in the codex, or that the real leaders even care. If Kentaro is nuts, maybe he WANTS all the universes to start from scratch. Maybe he thinks the athletes are an affront to the Gods.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:16 am
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Khaos
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ariock wrote:
It is one source of information spread across the world [META]by our PMs[/META].


I don't get your point here : Theo also is "a source of information spread across the world [META]by our PMs[/META]"

They BOTH belong to the alternate reality background. And so, i'm not going to discard one of them just because it please me to do so. I'm trying to pull them together to find the truth here, not discarding bits of information.

ariock wrote:
Our only other source of information is a second-hand explanation from James, who was obviously NOT a higher up of Theo.


You also got hints of Theo existence in Eli's podcast. You can't dismiss that there is a least an opposing force who works against the revival of the lost sport. It's hinted all other the codex and in Eli's podcast.
Since the ban of the ancient olympics there always have been an organization opposing the agonothetai. Not having a codex to backup its existence doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

ariock wrote:
Show me the proof then. From what I just quoted in the Codex, RCC is the BEST POSSIBLE possibility. That JUST these worlds undergo RCC, otherwise ALL the worlds convert, destroying EVERY civiliaztion on EVERY world. I don't see the part where it says only our world will be sacrificed. Or Theo's guarantee that that is what will happen.


The Codex itself proof my theory. That's simple logic here. If RCC reduce the risk of multiverse collapsing, a world sized RCC will reduce much more that same risk.
Sure Theo offers no guarantee that another world will not be harmed in the process, but the codex itself guaranty that the multiverse will not collapse. Again that's only a matter of size : the collapse will be more delayed if the RCC is greater.

ariock wrote:
Not to be a dick, but you're not part of the game, so YOUR reasons for joining are frankly irrelevant to the reasons the in-game characters joined. (James, Renata, Kentaro, all angry/crazy) And THAT is our best hint about the organization as we know it.


My reason were in parenthesis therefore not part of my argument.

In the end, James looks like a good guy to anyone exchanging with him. Renata has never be seen or heard of, but Larissa actively seek her so if you trust Larissa, you can't think think Renata is that bad.

And the only one time we saw Kentaro he did sounds crazy.

You can also count Eli Hunt who nearly admited that he was part of Theo in the past. And of course Markus who is Theo without knowing or willing it.

So that's one crazy person over 5 theo members. Not exactly what i would call a evil organization of doom who only try to take revenge on the world who betrayed them.

ariock wrote:
And sorry to put a fine point on this, but you joined Theo without knowing the actual reason for their existence, or who was in charge, and before we knew anything about them. How do you know Kentaro isn't in charge? You really know nothing about them. And what I've seen gives me no reason to believe what they've told us. They've provided no proof of anything. Nothing.


I joined Theo because i didn't trust blindly what was written in the codex. But as you already stated, my personnal choice doesn't matter here.

We know just as much from Theo than from the codex. All sides lacks a lot in the evidence department. I know people tend to trust the codex more because we heard of it before and it's a written source. But history is full of books of pure fiction that people believed was true.
It's just one source of information among several. As a Sofia i have to confront several sources before choosing a side. (To be fair, we don't actualy have enough information to really firmly choose a side anyway, too much supposition on each side)


Now let me ask you something (open "You" here, everyone feel free to participate or this thread will degenerate in an Ariock VS me fight Smile ) :

IF the codex is right, it's written that the original six traveled in lots of other worlds before being here. Most of them even had lost sport events still going on.
Then WHY the omphaputer shows clearly NO progress during that timespan ? Why didn't the number of worlds decreased ?

Why is that the only one time we saw a real impact was when a RCC happened ?

My answer is that's because synchronization is not enough, reality branch just too quickly and you must massively oppose it by massively do RCC. (ie World sized destruction)

And if Theo is willing to do so (Whatever their true motive) then they're on an ethical path.

EDIT : Corrected spelling mistakes but there might still be some. Remember i'm not a native english speaker here
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:14 pm
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ariock
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Khaos wrote:
ariock wrote:
It is one source of information spread across the world [META]by our PMs[/META].


I don't get your point here : Theo also is "a source of information spread across the world [META]by our PMs[/META]"


[META]Yes, but the PMs are also showing us that Theo aren't the ones we want to REALLY help. Crazy guy in charge=Bad Idea.[/META] We have an entire codex with a LOT of information, and you don't believe all of it. As far as I can tell, anything that disagrees with Theo's version.

Obviously, you may be 100% right. But I can't find any reason to not take the Codex as 100% true as of right now. If the Codex is 100% true, then we must oppose Theo.

Khaos wrote:
They BOTH belong to the alternate reality background. And so, i'm not going to discard one of them just because it please me to do so. I'm trying to pull them together to find the truth here, not discarding bits of information.


I put my evidence for opposing Theo in this thread. You seem to be discounting that evidence. You may be right, but I'd like to see what you're basing that off of.

Khaos wrote:
ariock wrote:
Our only other source of information is a second-hand explanation from James, who was obviously NOT a higher up of Theo.


You also got hints of Theo existence in Eli's podcast. You can't dismiss that there is a least an opposing force who works against the revival of the lost sport. It's hinted all other the codex and in Eli's podcast.
Since the ban of the ancient olympics there always have been an organization opposing the agonothetai. Not having a codex to backup its existence doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


I didn't say that they don't exist. I said their reasons may not be the reasons that they say they are. If you can say that the Codex might be wrong because it is 50 years old, I can say the same thing about James' reasons considering he just joined 4 years ago.

Khaos wrote:
The Codex itself proof my theory. That's simple logic here. If RCC reduce the risk of multiverse collapsing, a world sized RCC will reduce much more that same risk.
Sure Theo offers no guarantee that another world will not be harmed in the process, but the codex itself guaranty that the multiverse will not collapse. Again that's only a matter of size : the collapse will be more delayed if the RCC is greater.


The Omphaputer proves that theory wrong. There is no single "world sized RCC." Look at "RUN GRAPH." In 1816, the multiverse went from a maximum number of 100,000,000,000 different worlds ....to 10,000,000. That is 99,990,000,000 worlds destroyed. And Again. That was the best case scenario.

According to the codex, the next time this happens, ALL of the worlds may be destroyed. All. It's in the Codex. You say you don't discount any of it, but it's right there in Chapter 14.

Khaos wrote:
In the end, James looks like a good guy to anyone exchanging with him. Renata has never be seen or heard of, but Larissa actively seek her so if you trust Larissa, you can't think think Renata is that bad.


James is working for us now. He wasn't so nice until he realized we were right. That's another hint. Renata won't talk to Larissa anymore. Probably because she can't face that she's dooming her friend based on the rantings of a madman like Kentaro.

Khaos wrote:
You can also count Eli Hunt who nearly admited that he was part of Theo in the past. And of course Markus who is Theo without knowing or willing it.


First, nearly isn't the same thing as actually. I'm not sure what you're referring to here, but I'll assume you are right. Second, Eli AND Markus are now working for us. That's another hint.

Khaos wrote:
So that's one crazy person over 5 theo members. Not exactly what i would call a evil organization of doom who only try to take revenge on the world who betrayed them.


They've used theft to further their cause. Is that noble? They stole the rings. They stole Ariadne's postcard. They kidnapped Markus.

Khaos wrote:
We know just as much from Theo than from the codex. All sides lacks a lot in the evidence department. I know people tend to trust the codex more because we heard of it before and it's a written source. But history is full of books of pure fiction that people believed was true.

This kind of contradicts when you say you "Don't discard bits of information." Is this fiction, or not? If you say parts are, show me a conflicting document. Theo has never said that any particular piece of the Codex is wrong.

Khaos wrote:
It's just one source of information among several. As a Sofia i have to confront several sources before choosing a side. (To be fair, we don't actualy have enough information to really firmly choose a side anyway, too much supposition on each side)

Sofia too. I think it's more likely that Theo is untrustworthy, what with the thefts and kidnapping and etc.

Khaos wrote:
Now let me ask you something (open "You" here, everyone feel free to participate or this thread will degenerate in an Ariock VS me fight Smile ) :

IF the codex is right, it's written that the original six traveled in lots of other worlds before being here. Most of them even had lost sport events still going on.
Then WHY the omphaputer shows clearly NO progress during that timespan ? Why didn't the number of worlds decreased ?

Why is that the only one time we saw a real impact was when a RCC happened ?

My answer is that's because synchronization is not enough, reality branch just too quickly and you must massively oppose it by massively do RCC. (ie World sized destruction)

And if Theo is willing to do so (Whatever their true motive) then they're on an ethical path.

Ah. this is easy to answer. The reason the number keeps rising is that Theo has been opposing us all this time. Actively perfoming desynchronizations. If not for Theo, we'd be fine.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:17 pm
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Oriza
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 		Okay, because I'm kind of lost now since this has, indeed, pretty much degenerated into a bit of a fight, I'm going to intervene and say, PLEASE stop fighting.
I started this thread because I was genuinely curious as to what made people dislike TheO so much, and to get a bit of a clarification on what their goals/ethics are.
If only there were more Sophrosunes here. Perhaps they could help us connect with TheO and work together, instead of this turning into a sort of 'us versus TheO' war....
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:50 pm
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Khaos
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elite.fencer wrote:
Okay, because I'm kind of lost now since this has, indeed, pretty much degenerated into a bit of a fight, I'm going to intervene and say, PLEASE stop fighting.
I started this thread because I was genuinely curious as to what made people dislike TheO so much, and to get a bit of a clarification on what their goals/ethics are.
If only there were more Sophrosunes here. Perhaps they could help us connect with TheO and work together, instead of this turning into a sort of 'us versus TheO' war....


Don't worry, it's really not a fight (would be nice to add argument for other people than Ariock and me still)

Take that as a good way to learn exactly why Theo is hated (which reflects in the arguing shown here)
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:53 pm
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ariock
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elite.fencer wrote:
Okay, because I'm kind of lost now since this has, indeed, pretty much degenerated into a bit of a fight, I'm going to intervene and say, PLEASE stop fighting.
I started this thread because I was genuinely curious as to what made people dislike TheO so much, and to get a bit of a clarification on what their goals/ethics are.
If only there were more Sophrosunes here. Perhaps they could help us connect with TheO and work together, instead of this turning into a sort of 'us versus TheO' war....


First, I respect Khaos. I view this as a debate where we should be bringing our evidence and then poring over it. I personally think there are a lot of problems with Theo. The only way to get to the meat of the matter is to go through the evidence.

I always start with the idea that I might be able to convince someone to my side, but I also will look at their evidence and then evaluate whether or not it resonates with me. I'm perfectly happy to change my mind about Theo. I just think there's a lot of clues to show that they're on the wrong track. I hope they're (as an overall group) merely misguided and not completely insane or nihilistic.

[META]We're moving toward a synchronization on August 24th. We're moving toward the whole group going home to their own worlds...I've got to think we're not going to find out at the end that Theo was right all along and this will cause the end of the world. Or that there will be no labyrinth run on that day....Right?

The story is an arc moving toward a goal. The goal seems well lit to me, and it's the opposite of Theo's goal.[/META]

Of course, I could be wrong.

Oh, also, I too think we need to learn from Theo. However, I think we need to convince them to assist us rather than fighting with us.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:07 pm
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Khaos
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ariock wrote:
...the whole RCC bits...


Ok, basicaly i think i know where our disagreement is : it's about the RCC theory.

You're implying that RCC only occurs when the upper limit of the multiverse is reached.
As i understood the codex (feel free to point me the relevant part where i'm wrong, my codex translation is weeks behind me), RCC occurs "more often" when the upper limit is near (but not reached).

We also seem to disagree on the nature of a RCC. As far as i remember, the codex doesn't mention that RCC can occur throught all the multiverse. It's just basicaly a really (REALLY) big earthquake which reshape some worlds to match better the others. It's "forced synchronization" kind of.
The whole collapsing part of every worlds is when the upper limit is reached, not before.

Putting all that together, i see no bits of codex which contradicts Theo's theory :
By making our world far more different than the others we attract RCC upon ourselves much more than the little differences that could exist between the others.

The multiverse will try to bring down his biggest anomaly first (our world) before hunting any others. Therefore giving more peaceful time to live in other worlds.

ariock wrote:
Ah. this is easy to answer. The reason the number keeps rising is that Theo has been opposing us all this time. Actively perfoming desynchronizations. If not for Theo, we'd be fine.


Ah, no, i just can't give you that one Very Happy
You can't say that Theo as the power to counteract every synchronizations attempt in the multiverse since at least a century AND in the same time saying that Theo lacks the brain to find a solution that doesn't involve self-destructing his own life.

Even evil bad guys wants to survive.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:18 pm
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ariock
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Khaos wrote:
ariock wrote:
...the whole RCC bits...


Ok, basicaly i think i know where our disagreement is : it's about the RCC theory.

You're implying that RCC only occurs when the upper limit of the multiverse is reached.
As i understood the codex (feel free to point me the relevant part where i'm wrong, my codex translation is weeks behind me), RCC occurs "more often" when the upper limit is near (but not reached).

The English translation says. "Rapid continental change therefore most likely happens when reality approaches the maximum number of contemporaneous worlds." I see that meaning it will not happen unless the maximum number is hit. And it is more likely, because the other option is a complete reversion of ALL worlds to NeoPangea, at which point, there's only one world.

Khaos wrote:
We also seem to disagree on the nature of a RCC. As far as i remember, the codex doesn't mention that RCC can occur throught all the multiverse. It's just basicaly a really (REALLY) big earthquake which reshape some worlds to match better the others. It's "forced synchronization" kind of.
The whole collapsing part of every worlds is when the upper limit is reached, not before.
The collapsing is the RCC. It's all in Chapter 13.
13-1: "reality constantly reorganizes the arrangement of the continents into six normal formations in order to as quickly as possible do away with very large numbers of differences among the various worlds. The result of these changes is a rapid reduction in the number of total contemporaneous worlds. ... And the default direction of change seems to be to the state of Neopangaea."
13-2: "When the universe becomes too dissimilar regarding the many other worlds, often the result of the continued evolution of human civilization, it becomes what pan-cosmologists call an "external world". The more external the world, the more likely its risk for Rapid Continental change. According to the calculations of the scientists, worlds in the Gaea state currently are at the greatest risk of Rapid Continental change. Compared to the billions of other worlds, there are so few Gaea worlds that just being in the Gaea state raises a dangerously high grade of dissimilarity. On the other hand, the worlds in Pangea's state can change by means of many, many non-geological methods before the same degree of risk confronts that a world Gaia. ... That's why its more and more important for pan-cosmologists to search out the worlds at risk, world which are becoming more and more dissimilar with respect to the many others, so that they can intervene and reduce the dissimilarity. We now believe that for this reason, we were sent to this world -- to find the means to reduce the number of difference through the human synchronization method, before this world is drawn into the state of Neopangaea."
The bold bit indicates that ALL worlds can go through RCC. Just that Gaia worlds get it the worst.

1. Theo wants us to Desynchronize.
2. We are in an "Exernal" world. Proof of that is that the Agons came here.
3. De-synchronization draws us further from the other Gaia's.
4. Desynchronization creates MORE WORLDS.
5. All of the worlds we split from are by definition as external as we are.
6. ALL of the external worlds will be destroyed. Not just this one.
7. In the 1800s, over 99 trilllion worlds were destroyed. That's due to Theo.

Khaos wrote:
Putting all that together, i see no bits of codex which contradicts Theo's theory :
By making our world far more different than the others we attract RCC upon ourselves much more than the little differences that could exist between the others.

The multiverse will try to bring down his biggest anomaly first (our world) before hunting any others. Therefore giving more peaceful time to live in other worlds.


I see nothing saying that our world will be the only one. Ours going through RCC will cause a huge RCC for many many worlds, just like in 1815.

According to the Omphaputer, trillions of worlds were destroyed the last time this happened. We had no Olympics and no world-wide synchronization at that time. So that can't be blamed on the Agonothetai.

Khaos wrote:
ariock wrote:
Ah. this is easy to answer. The reason the number keeps rising is that Theo has been opposing us all this time. Actively perfoming desynchronizations. If not for Theo, we'd be fine.


Ah, no, i just can't give you that one Very Happy
You can't say that Theo as the power to counteract every synchronizations attempt in the multiverse since at least a century AND in the same time saying that Theo lacks the brain to find a solution that doesn't involve self-destructing his own life.

Even evil bad guys wants to survive.


Synchronizations only help those worlds where they are being done and the closely related worlds. But no one has been doing synchronizations for decades here, as far as we know. We've only been doing them for the last few years. There are some in other worlds. But this world is getting far out of whack, which creates even more different parallel worlds. We know this world is far out of whack because that is where the Six are sent. The farthest worlds.

And not all bad guys want to survive. Sometimes they'd rather just end their own pain and take the rest of the world with them.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:11 pm
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Shad0
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 		Re: [META] Theo's Goals and Ethics
Re: upper limit
Khaos wrote:
As i understood the codex (feel free to point me the relevant part where i'm wrong, my codex translation is weeks behind me), RCC occurs "more often" when the upper limit is near (but not reached).

We also seem to disagree on the nature of a RCC. As far as i remember, the codex doesn't mention that RCC can occur throught all the multiverse. It's just basicaly a really (REALLY) big earthquake which reshape some worlds to match better the others. It's "forced synchronization" kind of.
The whole collapsing part of every worlds is when the upper limit is reached, not before.

I think you're half right. You are absolutely correct that RCC occurs "more often" near the upper limit. However, chapter 14 makes it clear that the upper limit has never actually been reached, so no one knows exactly what will happen:

Chapter 14 wrote:
The number of the many worlds can grow higher than any imaginable number. But scientists believe that there is a limit as to how many worlds reality can support simultaneously. This is the "upper limit" of reality and nobody knows precisely what would occur if that upper limit is passed.

So the "collapsing" of a world -- which has happened, according to Chapter 13 -- is the same as an RCC, not a separate thing that occurs only when the upper limit is reached. It is, as you say, forced synchronization: the multiverse forcibly converting a dissimilar world into something that can be synchronized with another, with disastrous consequences for the former.

Chapter 13 wrote:
Cities are destroyed, peoples torn asunder, cultures are lost, and lives of those left living after the cataclysm are changed forever.

As long as I'm posting, I might as well reiterate my previous opinion: I believe that TheO is wrong, both factually and morally. Factually, I still think that TheO is misunderstanding the process in which worlds are ordinarily created and eliminated. A new universe is created whenever a choice is made, whenever an action is taken/not taken, whenever a desynchronizing event occurs/does not occur. Every time such a situation arises, the universe splits, and a new world is created in which the decision went the other way.

A world is eliminated without an RCC whenever the differences between two worlds are so insignificant that they can be peacefully combined into one. (An example is the fish that swims right, creating a second universe in which it swims left. If the fish ends up at the same place a few seconds later, it doesn't matter how it got there, so the two worlds recombine into one.) Synchronization efforts assist this peaceful recombination, by making different worlds sufficiently similar that they can merge without destroying anything.

Chapter 13 wrote:
That's why its more and more important for pan-cosmologists to search out the worlds at risk, worlds which are becoming more and more dissimilar with respect to the many others, so that they can intervene and reduce the dissimilarity.

So for all of TheO's self-righteous pronouncements about how it's trying to prevent the destruction of any worlds by "avoiding the choice," it's not actually doing anything to further that supposed goal. The way to "avoid the choice" -- that is, to try to keep the multiverse from reaching the point where it has to reduce the number of worlds via an RCC -- is to lower the number of worlds ourselves, peacefully, through synchronization. Instead, TheO's desynchronizing actions are calculated to increase the number of worlds faster than they otherwise would. And, as you've noted, this substantially increases the likelihood of a catastrophic RCC.

Morally, I think TheO's view is again too narrow. I can understand and even respect TheO's wish to sacrifice the one for the sake of the many. And, you know, if all of the billions of inhabitants of our world were consulted and they all decided that it was worthwhile to sacrifice our world for the possibility of saving another world that would otherwise suffer an RCC in its place, that would be one thing. But that isn't the situation. TheO has made a unilateral decision that these six billion people should all die horribly rather than some other six billion people. And in my opinion, TheO has no moral right to make that choice on behalf of the entire population of this planet.

I think that TheO isn't evil; just misguided. Seriously misguided.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:15 pm
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Khaos
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 		With that definition of RCC i can only agree with you that Theo is wrong in thinking that unsynchronizing our world will do any good to the multiverse.

I'll just give you the point here. Smile

Now i've got a side question (with Theo moral issue) : As per the codex, the worlds where the lost sport IS lost are very few (in fact, the travelers only know one : ours)

So nearly all the worlds are synchronizing. Theo is unsynchronizing only this particular world (and worlds branching from it).
(Note : It would make no sense to unsynchronize every worlds as per Theo sacrifizing theory)

So why the unsynchronizing of ONE world (and maybe a thousand more but all in all a very few part of the whole multiverse) is preventing ALL the multiverse from synchronizing ?

RUN GRAPH shows that in the past century, even "internal" worlds were increasing. Why is that ? (Again you can't put the blame on Theo as it's theory only imply one world sacrifizing)

After all, is synchronization a mechanism with enough power to counteract the natural increase in worlds number ?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:19 am
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Shad0
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 		Re: [META] Theo's Goals and Ethics
Order vs. chaos
Khaos wrote:
So nearly all the worlds are synchronizing. Theo is unsynchronizing only this particular world (and worlds branching from it).
(Note : It would make no sense to unsynchronize every worlds as per Theo sacrifizing theory)

So why the unsynchronizing of ONE world (and maybe a thousand more but all in all a very few part of the whole multiverse) is preventing ALL the multiverse from synchronizing ?

RUN GRAPH shows that in the past century, even "internal" worlds were increasing. Why is that ? (Again you can't put the blame on Theo as it's theory only imply one world sacrifizing)

I can only theorize, of course, so here's my SPECulation. I have mentioned before my belief that it is far, far easier to desychronize worlds than synchronize them: "... every time you take any action or make any decision you create a new parallel universe. It takes considerably more intentional effort to synchronize two worlds together. (No doubt this is why the number of worlds tends to increase as time passes, in the absence of active synchronization efforts.)"

Additionally, Chapter 17 of the Codex states:

Chapter 17 wrote:
After the new catastrophe of 1815, the Multiworld Athletic Committee needed almost half of a century to communicate its plans to enough worlds to a make a difference.

So for decades, at least, the multiverse's usual desynchronization continued unchecked. Combining that with the fact that desychronization happens naturally, constantly increasing the number of worlds, and it is no surprise that the number continues to increase regardless of what TheO does or does not do here. The rate of increase has slowed according to RUN GRAPH -- probably thanks to the efforts of the MAC -- but it clearly has not stopped.

More SPEC: While TheO certainly isn't helping, I think that even if TheO did not exist at all the crucial "tipping" factor would probably be our world's failure to participate in the Multiverse Olympiad. (And just to make our world even more important, I have a hunch that ariock's prior SPEC is also correct, and we are going to turn out to be "...the original world, the world from which history was born, the world from which is the source of all assembled knowledge ...the true unique omphaloi, the navel of reality itself" mentioned in Chapter 18.)
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:55 am
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Khaos
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 		Re: [META] Theo's Goals and Ethics
Order vs. chaos
Shad0 wrote:
"...the original world, the world from which history was born, the world from which is the source of all assembled knowledge ...the true unique omphaloi, the navel of reality itself" mentioned in Chapter 18.)


Considering the alternate reality laws of narration, it's highly probable indeed. (Just like the "one chance in a million" that happens everytime in Terry Pratchett's Discworld Smile )

As i surrender now to the view of team agonothetai, i'll have that conclusion :

All this makes clear why Theo must exist and be powerfull : To make the agonothetai team even better !
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:05 am
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